Not By Works

I consider anyone who militantly opposes Alcohol, tobacco and state sponsored gambling a hardcore conservative. Just like I considered Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan hardcore conservative Republicans. Anyone more conservative would be downright antisocial. Notice what is in red that's one of the salvation army's tenants or rules for soldiers. They must swear allegiance to.

You and I obviously have opposite interpretations of the same things. I find crosses gruesome. If Jesus was beheaded would you find Guillotines' acceptable? Yet you have a more gruesome torture and killing method for an avatar. I'm middle of the road like Jimmy Carter and I'm going to stay. Trying to cajole me into becoming more conservative will have the opposite effect, so please stop. I won't criticize you for being Republican so please lay off of me. We can agree that Jesus is Lord and that's the most important part of the story.

calibob said:

I consider anyone who militantly opposes Alcohol, tobacco and state sponsored gambling a hardcore conservative. Just like I considered Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan hardcore conservative Republicans. Anyone more conservative would be downright antisocial. Notice what is in red that's one of the salvation army's tenants or rules for soldiers. They must swear allegiance to.

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LOL, you have a WAY different opinion of hardcore conservative Evangelical. LOL. Do you know how many Churches, especially in the Bible Belt, that appose those things. LOL. Not even CLOSE to the Truth. Hardcore Conservative Evangelical, has nothing to do with those things. It has to do with their THEOLOGY. I have not been Drunk since about 1980, but I like a drink a beer once in awhile. I heard a Dr. recommend a beer a day is good for the heart, but I forget to drink one about 5 out of 7 days. The LORD HIMSELF, took Cigarettes away from me in early 1978. He was making me feel guilty about smoking cigarettes, and like I started to argue with HIM, "Why should I quit, as long as I enjoy them." The next morning I got up sitting on the edge of the bed, reached for the pack of cigarettes on the night stand, took one PUFF. AND IT TASTED HORRIBLE! Then HE put the Thought directly into my head, "WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE NOW DUMMY." You see, I watched my Aunt die of lung cancer at 29 years of age. From a pack and a half a day, to COLD TURKEY, in one JUMP, because that was the LAST cigarette I ever had. I buy a Lotto Ticket once in a while, but MOSTLY, I just forget to buy it. So your THEORY, on what constitutes a hardcore conservative evangelical, absolutely holds NO WATER with me:


calibob's Theory on who is a Hardcore, Conservative, Evangelical.


Never going to get that bucket full.

Still secure in my eternal life that Jesus has given me by grace through faith with no religious hoops, strings, rigmarole attached.....

It pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

To a worker for, Cainologist and or Pharisee it is foolish that we can just believe and be saved.....the flip side of the coin-->those who know the truth know it is foolish to believe works have any bearing on gaining eternal salvation/life by grace through faith......!!!

Concerning the ongoing argument about who is or is not more conservative....hahha I have learned a lot in the last 32 years...like...Paul said, "All things are lawful, but not necessarily expedient" IT IS OK to eat meat sacrificed unto an idol as long as it does not cause a weaker brother to be offended....It is ok to have a glass of wine or a beer....just don't get drunk and for sure...we cannot win the lost if we are never around the lost..........just saying!!

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Revelation 1:10-11, "1:10, "I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of יהוה,a and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the First and the Last,” and, “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven assemblies of Asia – to Ephesos, and to Smurna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodikeia.”

Revelation 2:1-3, “To the messenger of the assembly of Ephesos write, ‘He who is holding the seven stars in His right hand, who is walking in the midst of the seven golden lampstands, says this: “I know your works, and your labour, and your endurance, and that you are not able to bear evil ones, and have tried those who say they are emissaries and are not, and have found them false; and you have been bearing up and have endurance, and have labored for My Name’s sake and have not become weary.”

A.T.
19:1-9
1:15-18

Haha nice to see the Lawyer still peddling works and in a very subtle way accusing.....no wonder most ignore your posts.....!

You missed the point again. The point is militantly, not humbly, quietly, meekly or just in church. Militantly means combatively and aggressively. Carrying signs, making noise even getting arrested for the cause. Seems pretty radical to me Mr. obey the leaders.

It is not ok to eat meat sacrified to idols.. According to the Messiah:

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

are you really claiming that it is ok? To kill an animal in sacrifice to a pagan idol and eat it?

The Most High says to not even make or have idols... it is the 2nd Commandment...

Exodus 20:4-6,4 “You do not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of that which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth,"5 you do not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, יהוה your Elohim am a jealous Ěl, visiting the crookedness of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,"6 but showing loving-commitment to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands."

calibob said:

You and I obviously have opposite interpretations of the same things. I find crosses gruesome. If Jesus was beheaded would you find Guillotines' acceptable? Yet you have a more gruesome torture and killing method for an avatar. I'm middle of the road like Jimmy Carter and I'm going to stay. Trying to cajole me into becoming more conservative will have the opposite effect, so please stop. I won't criticize you for being Republican so please lay off of me. We can agree that Jesus is Lord and that's the most important part of the story.

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You have never been to the Cross, have you.

It is full of LOVE, because HE LOVED ME ENOUGH TO DIE FOR MY SINS THERE.

I will have to share part of my testimony now, that I usually leave out when I tell it.

I went through a terrible divorce, after the Marriage only lasted 6 month. She told me she wanted a divorce because I could not earn enough money to buy her what she wanted in life. That was on Christmas Eve 1977, and I was working at the Post Office. I hit bottom HARD, and I attempted suicide the Next Week three times. The first to times I had pistol against my head, and SHEAR TERROR filled my BODY, as I was in the doorway to Hades/Hell, and I was about to walk in. It was WAY more FEAR than a Murderer with a Knife to my throat could have EVER PUT INTO ME. The Third Time I got as Drunk as three guys ever had a right to be. I even knew the BIBLE SAID, "Thou shalt not Temp the Lord your God." And I did it anyhow. I got on my dirt bike, rode out to a freshly graveled road, and TAUNTED GOD, "If You want me, You can have me, anywhere You want to on this mile. I hit that mile of very loose gravel, full throttle, and kept it there. I was leaning out over the handle bars because I want to hit head first when I lost control. FOR THE ENTIRE MILE, AT FULL THROTTLE about 70 m.p.h. ON THAT VERY LOOSE GRAVEL. THE BIKE NEVER EVEN WOBBLED AND IT FELT LIKE I WAS RIDING ON PAVEMENT.

I backed the bike off, and went slowly home about 1:45 in the morning, still as drunk as I have ever been. I sat up the rest of the night, sobering up, and thinking about what had just happened. Finally about 5:00 A.M. I walked back to my bedroom, and I realized, "I cannot ride a bike like that on loose gravel, even if I was sober. GOD MUST HAVE GRABBED THE BIKE AND SAID, 'NO YOU DON'T, I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE.' " I mean wave, after wave of DEEP GRIEF OVER MY UTTERLY SINFUL LIFE, swept over me. And I was instantly on my knees, weeping and crying over the TREMENDOUS GUILT, crying, "Forgive me, Forgive me, If you have a purpose for my life, you have to come into it, and run my life. Because I cannot do it, Please Forgive Me!"

I fell on my face prone, still weeping uncontrollably, and Still crying, "Please Forgive Me!" And then, came the part of my conversion that I usually leave out. While in the prone position, HE gave me a Vision, or maybe I fell asleep and it was a Dream; I cannot tell one way or another. But if it was a Dream, IT WAS THE MOST VIVID DREAM THAT I HAVE EVER HAD, AND I DO NOT REMEMBER FALLING ASLEEP. I was at the foot of the CROSS, on my KNEES, reaching up to HIM, STILL WEEPING UNCONTROLLABLY, STILL CRYING "PLEASE FORGIVE ME!" I noticed the NAILS were NOT in the Hands, but they were at the TOP OF THE WRISTS. Prior to that, I had never heard anyone ever told me they were at the top of the wrists, and NO CHURCH THAT I KNEW OF AT THAT TIME said they were not in the palms.

YEARS LATER, I heard a Doctor who was a Christian explain that it has to be in the top of the wrists, because in the Palms those nails would have ripped right through his flesh. A few months later I heard Dr. Zola Levitt on TV explain, that Jews consider the wrists to be part of the HAND.

As I was focused on those NAILS THROUGH HIS WRISTS, I saw BLOOD DRIPPING for each of them. It fell on my FOREARMS, and the BLOOD WAS WARM! I knew that BLOOD was the PRICE that He Paid to forgive my sins, and I was FORGIVEN. That is where the Vision or Dream ended. AND Ever since, I have HAD A SENSE of deep AFFECTION FOR THE CROSS and HIS PRICE HE WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR ME. In that same lecture that Dr. Zola Levitt was explaining that the Jews believe that the wrists is part of the hand, he mentioned something about the Cross, I had never heard before. In a Jewish Wedding of 2000 years ago, the BRIDE PRICE had to be paid no later than one day after the Bridegroom left the Old Dwelling Place of the Bride, to go prepare a Place for HER in the FATHER'S HOUSE. {Yes there is a lot more, including that from the Betrothal Cup, they are Called Bride and Bridegroom - see my study on The Calling Out Of The BRIDE - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/ } So JESUS PAID THE BRIDE PRICE FOR US the Next Day in FULL, and the BRIDE PRICE is in the Old Testament. That made even the CROSS more PRECIOUS TO ME.

Maybe some people think I am crazy, but every time I sing "AT THE CROSS, AT THE CROSS, WHERE I FIRST SAW THE LIGHT", I Cry.

Even the NEW VERSION, I STILL CRY:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/

Here is the Video that I meant to share with you:

I was raised catholic, I've prayed to Crosses, beads, statues candles etc. kissed rings, bowed and knelt before Nuns & bishops. Confessed my sins to men in closets, kissed bibles. pounded my chest when bells rang, crossed myself with fingers dipped in holy water. burnt incense and prayed to saints. Wore uniforms, served as an alter boy. I was baptized as a baby, first confession and communion when I was about 9 and the ritual of confirmation when I was about 14 and never read a bible or was read a story from one other a few Charton Heston movies.

I may hear the video when I get some speakers in a couple of weeks. Its 4am and I'm returning from my second trip to the restroom (I'm 64) one more to go. before I rise for the day. g'night.

You were catholic, what are you now? Also i dont see what is "hardcore" or bad in opposing tobacco, alcohol, gambling? Sounds like standard christianity to me. Maybe the current worldly apostate churches no longer care that they got drunkards smokers and gamblers in the church as long as they pay up and nod their heads to the beat of the contemporary music.
Thank God many churches still have preachers preaching against that stuff.

calibob said:

You and I obviously have opposite interpretations of the same things. I find crosses gruesome. If Jesus was beheaded would you find Guillotines' acceptable? Yet you have a more gruesome torture and killing method for an avatar. I'm middle of the road like Jimmy Carter and I'm going to stay. Trying to cajole me into becoming more conservative will have the opposite effect, so please stop. I won't criticize you for being Republican so please lay off of me. We can agree that Jesus is Lord and that's the most important part of the story.

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But have you EVER received Him in your Heart as LORD meaning Master?

The HEART, is where the human spirit lies and after you are born again, you will realize, it thinks too, so I am not talking about the brain that lies between your ears.

You said, "We can agree that Jesus is Lord and that's the most important part of the story."

But that Intellectual ONLY faith, is what even the DEMONS HAVE. Here let me show you:

Mark 5:1-19 (NKJV)
1 Then they came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.
6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. {In an kneeling or prostrate position.}
7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me." {Mark only chose to focus on the Spokesperson, and in Matthew, he mentions there were actually two demoniacs there. So about a 1000 Demons in each.}
8 For He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!"
9 Then He asked him, "What is your name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion; for we are many."
10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, "Send us to the swine, that we may enter them."
13 And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.
14 So those who fed the swine fled, and they told it in the city and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that had happened.
15 Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.
16 And those who saw it told them how it happened to him who had been demon-possessed, and about the swine.
17 Then they began to plead with Him to depart from their region.
18 And when He got into the boat, he who had been demon-possessed begged Him that he might be with Him.
19 However, Jesus did not permit him, but said to him, "Go home to your friends, and tell them what great things the Lord has done for you, and how He has had compassion on you."

Matthew 8:28-29 (HCSB)
28 When He had come to the other side, to the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met Him as they came out of the tombs. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
29 Suddenly they shouted, “What do You have to do with us, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”


So you can see that DEMONS have Faith between their ears, but GENUINE FAITH is in the HEART (HUMAN SPIRIT), and that is the Kind of Faith that SAVES.


James 2:19 (HCSB)
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe—and they shudder.


You have to have that deeper FAITH in your HEART, to be SAVED. You can have it too, but Jesus will not kick the door of your HEART OPEN. All you have to do, is OPEN THE DOOR OF YOUR HEART OPEN, AND INVITE HIM IN.


Revelation 3:19-20 (NKJV)
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.

Now I'm evangelical but that was nearly a miracle itself. I'll go back to that shortly. I consider most Christan denominations like the wnes that let you pay your tithes, bow your head and say amen on Sunday mornings then go back to worldly ways Sunday afternoons Mainstream. Preaching to the saved, paying lip service to God but really not doing much else is more common than not. Lutherans, Presbyterians, and all the rest that don't take a as stance on anything in public. The liberals are for a neutral or left wing stance on Gays, divorce and marriage abortion etc. between them they outnumber us by far over all. some I hear even have gay clergy members.
There is nothing wrong with being firm and taking a stance on what we oppose and being or saying we are hard core is not an insult. Being soft is. Becoming a Soldier in the Salvation Army requires one to take an oath to militantly oppose things that can take or enslave a persons soul. I have more respect for them than the majority of those that are Sunday morning Christians.

This all started when someone called a person that supports salvation by works a Salvationist. No Salvationists are evangelicals to whom works are a blessing, they not Calvinists. They ARE Christian soldiers to the bone, no pun intended. Their pastors are officers have military brass and uniforms and Must be married. They both must have College degrees in Theology, Divinity, Psychology or something useful to the Corps. True Salvationists call themselves adherents. They must take classes and swear an oath to become Soldiers, receive uniforms, ranks or be promoted. The mission is outreach but I declined because they do not practice baptism or communion and I do not believe that what goes into your mouth is nearly as bad as what comes out of it like racism, hatred, homophobia, senseless wars for profit and the like.

Now back to what am I now? Well first I must confess what I was. My biological mother was an alcoholic/junkie, homeless slut who ran away from the Blackfeet res. in Browning Montana and left me in the hospital, born in withdrawals and never came back. I was a sick orphan and left in a catholic charities' hospital to die in Los Angeles in 1954. I went to a catholic foster home in 1955, went through dialysis treatments and was raised catholic (please notice I only capitalize catholic when talking about the RCC). When I started becoming a man I started to realize some things seemed quite wrong with Catholic traditions. doctrine and dogma and stopped believing in Catholicism around 17 or 18. I hoped that their is a God and ineptly offered prayers that I'd find him and tried several what I thought were main stream faiths like LDS, JW, Scientology etc. I tried to read the bible starting with Genesis but quickly became bogged down. One day I got arrested for something minor like an unpaid ticket or something had to spend a weekend in county jail and someone there shared a pocket version of Mark and I read it. I left jail hungry for more. The lord started putting Christians in my path and I got involved with Calvary Chapels 'I found it' movement got saved in '77 and things began to change dramatically. I've worked on and off for churches, charities and outreach programs ever since. Now I'm partially crippled and on social Security and V.A. Theologically I'm mostly aligned with evangelical charismatics and view them as being conservatives, a vast minority over all. But Like Gen. Booth I'm more concerned with the sinners out side the church than the so called saints within its walls. That's my sermonette.

When I use the check mark from me it says amen. The button they forgot when they designed this site.

Hi Calibob, I was a garden variety sinner, and I know that any sin is horrible, however God saved my wife from the religion of Buddhism. She was raised to follow her family religion beginning in her childhood. As you can imagine Buddhism is steeped in liturgy and rituals, temple worship, bowing to monks, lighting incense, attending village worship weekly and many many other religious festivals throughout the year.

God's Divine Providence is what saves us all, even from being entrenched in a false system of religion. All of God's attributes are encompassed by God's Divine Providence, and our Loving Father is working "all things together for good of those who love Him."

Praise God for the loving Father He is and that He has brought you and my wife out of a counterfeit religion. And I pray also that God is making your move to your new home as smooth as possible. I went to visit a friend in the Army near Lawton in 1969 Fort Sill O.K. Are you moving from California it looks like it from your screen name "Calibob"...

God bless!

Divine Providence: Romans8:28
28) And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29) For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30) And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Hi again Calibob, here I can say it for you, "God bless you and Amen brother."

Thank you, he always does.

San Pedro/Long Beach area mostly. I have a restless heart though and never felt I belonged anywhere except where I am or was going at the time. You can say I've been around a little. I am here now because of the metropolitan benefits, cost of living, and low crime rate.