THE PROBLEM IS YOU DONT BELIEVE

Actually the outta the 4 types of ground 3 were saved yet only one bore fruit. I gotta run now but ill say the not all who receive Gods Gift serve or desire to serve look at the church in corinth. Godbless

I think the verses speak for themselves.:

"just will live by faith."

without faith it is impossible to please Him

if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him."

This passage sums it up to me:

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

This is talkingabout Abraham, how he had faith anf was to offer his son on the altar

This is the James passage for context and below it I will post relevant verses concening Abraham's faith and works " the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected"

James 2:14-26, “14 My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him. 15, "And if a brother or sister is naked and in need of daily food, 16, "but one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” but you do not give them the bodily needs, what use is it? 17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead. 18, "But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works. 19, "You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! 20, "But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead? 21, "Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the altar? 22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected? 23, "And the Scripture was filled which says, “Aḇraham believed Yah, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him, “he who loves Yah. 24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone. 25, "In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works.”

Genesis 15:4-6, "And see, the word of יהוה came to him, saying, “This one is not your heir, but he who comes from your own body is your heir. And He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward the heavens, and count the stars if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So are your seed. And he believed in יהוה, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness."

Works:

Genesis 26:4-5, “And I shall increase your seed like the stars of the heavens, and I shall give all these lands to your seed. And in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because Aḇraham obeyed My voice and guarded My Charge: My commands, My laws, and My Torah.”

Belief + Works:

James 2:21-22, “Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the altar? Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?”

Belief + Works:
Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

“By belief, Aḇraham obeyed”

Hebrews 11
8, “By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

9, By belief, he sojourned in the land of promise as a stranger, dwelling in tents with Yitsḥaq and Ya‛aqoḇ, the heirs with him of the same promise,"

10, "for he was looking for the city having foundations, whose builder and maker is Yah.

17, By belief, Aḇraham, when he was tried, offered up Yitsḥaq, and he who had received the promises offered up his only brought-forth son.”

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

Hebrews 11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going."11:9, "By belief, he sojourned in the land of promise as a stranger, dwelling in tents with Yitsḥaq and Ya‛aqoḇ, the heirs with him of the same promise,"11:10, "for he was looking for the city having foundations, whose builder and maker is Yah."11:11, "By belief also, Sarah herself was enabled to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the normal age, because she deemed Him trustworthy who had promised."11:12, "And so from one, and him as good as dead, were born as numerous as the stars of the heaven, as countless as the sand which is by the seashore. "11:13, "In belief all these died, not having received the promises, but seeing them from a distance, welcomed and embraced them, and confessed that they were aliens and strangers on the earth. 11:14, "For those who speak this way make it clear that they seek a fatherland."11:15, "And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that place from which they had come out, they would have had the chance to return."11:16, "But now they long for a better place, that is, a heavenly. Therefore Yah is not ashamed to be called their Strength, for He has prepared a city for them."11:17, "By belief, Aḇraham, when he was tried, offered up Yitsḥaq, and he who had received the promises offered up his only brought-forth son,"11:18, "of whom it was said, “In Yitsḥaq your seed shall be called, 11:19, "reckoning that Yah was able to raise, even from the dead, from which he received him back, as a type."

the strawman of Gods grace being a license to sin

ignores not only the gospel as a whole but also His chastening (He obviously doesn't chasnten His own for walking in the spirit)


works salvationists will say things like "well if youre saying we arent kept saved by our own walk thats like saying you can sin all you want"

which ignores the new heart and desires we are given....


no born again believer WANTS sin

we as new creatures want righteousness
....


but our flesh is weak and desires its own pleasure

that is why out of LOVE for Him who loved us first while we were yet sinners (not having the imputed righteousness of Jesus which is by grace through faith..... a gift not reward) we being made new examine ourself to see if we are walking according to the spirit


30 fruit
60 fruit
100 fruit

all saved equally

but not all equally fruitful


that revolving door salvation is one horrible hole to fall in for any still being blown about by every wind of doctrine not yet coming to the unity of faith

ohhh shamah

i hope you one day come to the truth
😔

God will never cast His own out

and no man (including you) can snatch one of His own from His hand

we arent kept by our power

but His


believe it or not

Gods gifts are without repentance

I still don't understand your point, this thread is about salvation through grace and how some don't believe that. Do you believe in salvation through grace alone or no?

See but this is the reason I say what I do, how is it, that this is the perception of anyone who promotes obedience? Can you uote a single time I have even hinted at any of the doctrines you hang on my head?

I post verses about obedience and this is the reaction...

Fact is unmerited mercy (grace) is just that, and does not mean or promote sin or Lawlessness. Just the oppisite to me it makes me want to humble myself before Him and do His will...

However as soon as one uses grace as a reason that they have no need or desire to follow Him, it is being used as "a cloak for evil" and "licentiousness"

1 Peter 2:16, “as free, yet not using your freedom as a cloak for evil, but as servants of the Mighty One.”

Jude 1:4-18, “For certain men have slipped in, whose judgment was written about long ago, wicked ones perverting the unmerited mercy of our Mighty One for immoral behavior,.."

This does not mean the preaching of grace/unmerited mercy is "a cloak for evil" or "licentiousness" but as soon as it is used as the reason for rejection of His path one is doing exactly what Peter and Jude warn of. Now I am not saying you are doing this, but I am saying if it;s used in this manner it is licentiousness...



Certianly YHWH saves it is not of our own power however when you say no repentance, that is in direct conflict of the word and this does sond like licentiousness now...

SO there is no need to repent?

WHy is this written:

Mat 4:17, "From that time יהושע began to proclaim and to say, “Repent, for the reign of the heavens has drawn near.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”


Bottom line for me is this:

TheMEssiah is the one we must shamah (hear and obey)

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

I will trust in His words. ALl of them, not just belief verses and not just obedience verses... All of His words...

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

I believe salvaion if of YHWH, and can not be obtained by works, but only by His unmerite mercy. However this is not instruction to live a life of sin or reject His ways...

Also that is not actually the topis, the topic is:

THE PROBLEM IS YOU DONT BELIEVE

Im my view and I can and have shown in Scripture the people of Yah obey Him BY BELIEF (Heb 11) that any belief/faith that is authentic will do His way, belief/faith that is not authentic will not do His way.

So in a topic of "you don't believe" I think this very relevant.

James 2:19-20, “You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead?”

Actually the outta the 4 types of ground 3 were saved yet only one bore fruit. I gotta run now but ill say the not all who receive Gods Gift serve or desire to serve look at the church in corinth. Godbless

Works is the way faith is justified - Good works = true faith.

I wouldnt personally word it like that, because I dont think its a justification principle. I think true faith does His will, empty faith does not...

If one really believes there is an Almighty Creator and He loves us an dguides us and wantes us to be with His eternally I think they would live a life based on Him and His ways, not prefect but it would be evident in their lifestyle. And Scripture backs this up James 2 and Heb 11... Among other places

well you started this off with a misconception

i never hung any of those on your head

that post had everything to do with common arguments i hear from works salvation and the error of their arguments

again
you ignore the new heart given to His children in your bit about "license to sin"

i say i wish you come to the truth in hopes you are delivered from the false beliefs ive seen from you already (which is a separate post)

all ive seen here is a bunch of misconceptions from you.... again

followed by misc. verses that have nothing to do with the point at hand

God never casting out His own <- born again believers

who are saved as a gift

by grace through faith <- not of works

James 2 is talking about exactly what i said, a persons faith is justified by his works, thats the whole point of James 2 wouldnt you agree?

Yes and you addressed them to me without directly speaking on what I had said, you just spoke about general "works salvations" doctrines...

No I would not agree. I see him saying ."faith" that does not follow Him is empty and can not save, faith that follws Yah is faith that is true. As James says "22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

True faith does the will of the Messiah...

James 2:14-26, “14 My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him. 15, "And if a brother or sister is naked and in need of daily food, 16, "but one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” but you do not give them the bodily needs, what use is it? 17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead. 18, "But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works. 19, "You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! 20, "But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead? 21, "Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the altar? 22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected? 23, "And the Scripture was filled which says, “Aḇraham believed Yah, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him, “he who loves Yah. 24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone. 25, "In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works.”

I agree with that "faith that does not follow Him is empty and can not save" because it's not true faith, it's head knowledge, and that's why I say James is speaking of justifying faith and not the person by works.

Anything else would contradict this.
Romans 3:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

King James Version (KJV)

Ok I did get that from you last post. Yes James IMO speaks of true faith..


Also about what Paul said in Rom 3:

We are not justified by works of the Law however:

Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!”

We are also not abolishing YHWH;s Law due to His mercy upon us. This is what I say over and over.

Well then your right lol. The law is summed up in love your neighbor, that's what it's all about. Not obeying rules and working this or that, just love one another and we fulfil the law.

I was having this discussion with my sister and her husband, and eventually the conversation ended up going in the licentiousness direction. The license to sin point, to say that grace is no license to sin (and it isn't). Its funny because this question that even the Apostle Paul addressed can only be brought up with the true Gospel, a gospel of grace and not works. As I once read, how could this question of sinning because of grace arise if the preacher says your sins will lead you to Hell? No, it could only be brought up if His grace is sufficient, and the Gospel is preached, revealing our complete dependence on Christ and Him crucified.

Luke 8:4-15, “4 And when a large crowd had gathered, and those who were coming to Him from every city, He spoke by a parable:"5 “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some indeed fell by the wayside. And it was trodden down, and the birds of the heaven devoured it."6 “And other fell on rock, and when it grew up, it withered because it had no moisture."7 “And other fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up with it and choked it."8 “And other fell on the good soil, and grew up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” Having said this He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”"9 And His taught ones were asking Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”"10 And He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the reign of the Mighty One, but to the rest in parables, that ‘Seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not understand.’ Isa 6:9."11 “And this is the parable: The seed is the word of the Mighty One. 12 “And those by the wayside are the ones who hear, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, that they may not believe and be saved. (not saved)"13 “And those on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy. And these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of trial fall away. (not saved)"14 “And that which fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with worries, and riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to perfection. (not saved)"15 “And that on the good soil are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, retain it, and bear fruit with endurance. (saved)”

Luke 8:12 “And those by the wayside are the ones who hear, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, that they may not believe and be saved.”

Luke 8:13 “And those on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy. And these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of trial fall away.”

Did not endure.

Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”

Hebrews 10:6-8, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised. 37 For yet a little while – He who is coming shall come and shall not delay. But the righteous shall live by belief, but if anyone draws back, my being has no pleasure in him.”

Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”

James 1:12, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him.”

Luke 8: 14 “And that which fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with worries, and riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to perfection.”

Mat 7:19-20, “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”

1 John 2:15-17, “Do not love the world, nor the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world: the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passes away, with the lust that is in it; but he who does the will of YHWH abides forever.”

Luke 8:15 “And that on the good soil are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, retain it, and bear fruit with endurance.” (saved)

Dude you cant interpret the Bible without the Spirit. the 1st didn't receive the word. (and the word WAS God-(Genesis) but the rest received the WORD only the 4th brought fruit. When we believe not he is faithful for he cannot deny himself. You are very carnal