Why I joined the Reformed Church

Reformed churches came out of the Roman Catholic Church. So you should study the History of the Baptists by Thomas Armitage (both volumes) in order to understand this matter properly.

Baptists are NOT Protestants since there were many Baptistic churches outside the Roman Catholic Church since apostolic times, and Baptists and Anabaptists rejected infant baptism and insisted on believer's baptism (hence "Baptists"). But Protestants (Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Reformed) accepted infant baptism as valid.

Indeed the Protestants persecuted and killed Anabaptists. Therefore "Reformed Baptist" is an anomaly, if not an oxymoron. Furthermore Baptists were not traditionally Calvinistic, but recently there has been a trend towards Calvinism, particularly after the Southern Baptist Convention started going in that direction.

Anyhow Reformed Theology (aka Five Point Calvinism) is a DISTORTION of the Gospel. God does NOT elect some for salvation and others for damnation, since that would violate His character as well as His Gospel.

What do you with all of the Scriptures which teach predestination and election. You can't sweep them all under the carpet.

Below are 17+ verses that support the Doctrine of Election (sometimes referred to as predestination, but technically not the same). These are verses that don’t need other verses to support them. These verses alone are plain and clear. If we were to do a full exposition of predestination, the list would be even longer.
How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.
– Ps 65:4
The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.
– Prov 16:4
And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
– Mt 24:31
now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
– Luke 18:7
So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.
– Acts 15:17-18
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
– Romans 8:28- 30
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
– Rom 8:33
for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
– Romans 9:11
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
– Romans 9:15-16 (the whole chapter)
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
– Rom 11:2
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
– Romans 11:5-7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
– 1 Cor 2:7
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
– Ephesians 1:5,11
knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;
– 1 Thes 1:4
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
– 2 Thes 2:13
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
– Titus 1:1
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
– 1 Peter 1:2
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
– Rev 13:8
Aren’t some of these so obvious??
Some that believe in free will may try to avoid proper hermanuetics when it comes to these verses to support what they believe, or they flat out just reject these verses. But it’s clear. And if all glory is to God and not to ourselves and if we were dead in sin before we were saved, how could we raise ourselves from the dead?
To deny predestination you’d have to reject God Omniscience and that He even had a plan when He created the heavens and the earth. Thank God He has predestined us, because it is in our nature to reject God and if He didn’t seal us, we would fall away in a heart beat.
Be thankful for God, His Omniscience, and Grace to save you. Soli Deo Gloria & Sola Gratia

That's what the Catholics thought too. Now I draw the sword😣

We don't sweep them under the carpet. We simply interpret them as they were intended to be interpreted. Those who believe are predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified -- "conformed to the image of His Son" (fully perfected in Christ).

IOW justification is the first phase and glorification is the last phase. Foreknowledge sees all of this as an accomplished fact (Rom 8:29,30 KJB).

For whom he did foreknow,
he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate,
them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified:
and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

It can be said in the Roman's verse that Predestinate, as defined in Theology, means to foreordain by divine decree or purpose.
While the verb, foreordain, is defined as, to ordain or appoint beforehand, to predestine; predetermine.
And , foreknow, or foreknew, is obviously defined as , knowing beforehand. Or, (foreknew) knew beforehand.


After those verses describe the process, we are told God then justifies . Which in theology is defined as, declaration of innocent or guiltless; absolve; acquit.
Glorify is then, when we are made glorious; invested with glory. And glory and all its meaning applies there too.

Going by those definitions from a theological standpoint then, the Romans 8:29~30 verses tell us God's divine decree and purpose appointed beforehand those whom he predetermined to call that they be declared absolved, acquitted, guiltless, of their sins. And we are therefore invested with the splendor of Heaven.

Umm, you should have dig deeper than my friend. Certainly, Baptists are not Protestant. For we never came out of Rome.

I would say to be careful how we look at that because of the counterfeiter (the father of lies) .His MO is to turn things upside down in order to take away the understanding of God.... not seen...…. making the word of God without effect.

Jesus was considered a rouge as was John the Baptist

Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

There can be safety in number. But God does not number the flock nor does he inform us to trust the private interpretation of the leaders . Every man has their own private interpretation as a personal commentary on what they believe the Holy Spirit is teaching them. Like fingerprints one does differ from the other . So then private interpretations of His interpretation or His inspired revelation come by rightly dividng His word . It is how we are commanded to seek His approval as the things of God .Not the approval of men, as the things of men .There must be a proper division if we are to hear God not seen an and not men seen.

His interpretation "scripture" to us is never the problem. The problem is when men attempt to put their own interpretation first or try to make it equal to that which is written and in doing so make His interpretation to no effect . I would think the first thing first ordinances.... must be in order if we are to seek His approval.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any "private interpretation". For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.2 Peter 1:20-21


Those in Jones town and other cults relied on the leader of their flock and were deceived just as in the garden of Eden .Hearing the voice of a stranger as a daysman, ( another way of saying Pope). They do not compare scripture to scripture but compare them themselves to themselves. Making the word of God without effect

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

David realized who whispered in his ear in 2 Samuel

2 Samuel 24:10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the Lord, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O Lord, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly

Our relationship with the teacher the Holy anointing Spirit Christ is private as two walking together in agreement to one …... Christ in us, our living hope.

We are informed in that way as it scripture teaches us we abide in Christ the promised teacher.

The word it in as it is written clearly represents the faith of God that does work in the believer to both will and do the good pleasure of God as we are yoked with Him . (imputed righteousness)

Catholicism as the best example attributes the it as that which did work in Peter.By giving glory to Peter making him the key that the gates of Hell could never prevail against .Turning thing upside down as if they were inspired of earth and bound in heaven. Making it in respect to flesh and blood of Peter. The little words like it in that can be sometimes overlooked even thoogh they might carry more weight .

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.Mathew 16: 17 -18

He is not apposed to denominations but is the designer of them. To keep Christians from killing each other. Christ is our city of refuge in that way .

He as the Father of spirits is typified by the word Abraham, the father of many nations. The phrase Bosom of Abraham represents the invisible presence of God. Many children of all the nations of the world make up the one flock as His eternal called out bride.

From that the word denomination or sect which is formed by the word heresy. (a group of men and woman having a similar view).

Heresy a word that has almost been destroyed by Catholicism who claim others have a private interpretations that have broken away from Catholicism (they went out from us) by using their own private interpretation . Making their oral tradition as a private interpretation that by which they judge other beliefs. and not the scriptures as from faith to faith he highest possible authority of God .

The kingdom of God is not of this world or we would walk by sight as the Catholic clearly do.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is "my kingdom" not from hence.

Scriptures warns us of those who say we need a man seen to teach us rather abiding in promised teacher, guide and comforter the Holy Spirit not seen. It does not say we do need to be part of a consensus .And I am not trying to discourage denominations . I would suggest no such thing as a non denomination

Because a Christian obeys the commandment to study to show oneself approved of God as rightly diving the word of God... obeying the commandment to study would not make him what you call a rogue. Scripture clearly define the us in Christ not men the church.

If that was the case and we would make the thing of men seen the higher authority than the things of God not seen .Then the Son of man Jesus failed and then we could make Peter the it the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against.

Satan uses organized religion to make the word of God as things of God without effect. Catholics do it boldly and insist that we must be taught by men seen called fathers . But it is them that went out from the true us again defined by God trough the scriptures, not men by their oral traditions .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16: 22-23

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy .But today that would not be possible . Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit "not seen" is not forgivable

My friend I would hope you would study the history of the European Reformations. That of the English and the German.
The Reformations focused on revoking the Catholic idea of a universal church, or central Roman papal authority, and instead moved toward faith in Christ and recognizing private judgment as the measure of faith and authority.

The problem is both Calvinism (Reformed) and Armeniasm use scripture to back up their beliefs. The Apostles Creed was created in 312 with the oldest copy of it dated 390. The early elders created it for 3 reasons.
1. The beliefs that are the minimum to be considered a Christian.
2. Violating it is heresy.
3. All other of the many diverse issues were to agree to disagree since they weren't essential to be a Christian.

There were at that time many issues the early Christians disagreed about. Today you see this with all of the various gospel preaching denominations. Some are Calvinist, Armeniast, some part of each, others going their own way. All preaching the gospel. Therefore as a Reformed believer I suggest you just agree to disagree with our other Christian brethren.

Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,

https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages

There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.

This is the context wherein Christ, the perfect sacrifice of the new teestament is better than the first testament where the blood of goats or bulls has the temporary effect but Christ blood is the eternal one. Christ deformed the Jewish sacrifice by offering his own body and his shed blood is for eternal redemption available for all mankind.

No problem here but the bible is in fact covers the history of the first century church and as far as the church history is concerned, i have a little study on the baptists hstory and its perpuity.

With all due respect I disagree with the view that we should agree to disagree. We believe there is only one truth, and we believe our God is a jealous God who does not tolerate being misrepresented.

The Arminians believe in a different God to us Calvinists, the Arminian description of God is offensive to our God so we reject their views as heresy and apostasy.

We are taught to reject their teaching and to have no fellowship with them, unless they are ready to join us. We are not about uniting with those who believe in a different god, we can only fellowship with those who believe in the same God.

Actually some do claim to be Protestant . The Southern Baptist do . They even had a statement regarding the 500th anniversary of the Protestant reformation in a meeting held last year here in Phoenix.
Blessings
Bill

Southern Baptists are a confused bunch, and now going into liberalism, progressivism, and spiritual confusion, as well as repudiation of Bible principles regarding women in spiritual leadership. Please note:

"The Southern Baptist Convention elected J.D. Greear as president Tuesday, signaling Southern Baptists’ willingness to embrace massive cultural changes.

Greear, at 45-years-old, is the youngest man to be elected president of the SBC in 37 years. He has spoken openly about abuse scandals that have recently rocked the Southern Baptist Convention and hailed them a sign from God of needed cultural change. (Imagine!)

Greear recently called on his fellow Southern Baptists to embrace not a doctrinal change, but a cultural change with regard to their implementation of complementarianism, representation of minorities in church leadership, protection for the abused, and other changes that in many cases repudiated elements of culture that the recently disgraced Paige Patterson promoted.... Greear affirmed the doctrine as biblical, but said that a correct interpretation of it acknowledges and values women’s spiritual gifts and encourages the training of women as leaders and teachers."

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/13/new-southern-baptist-convention-president-cultural-change/

Now let's look at this one idea and see whether it has any biblical basis: "Greear also advocated for proportional representation of “people of color” and minorities in church leadership..."

Firstly, racial discrimination should have already become a thing of the past (if not total absent from all Christians churches). It should have been addressed in the 60s and 70s. But assuming that is still exists in the SBC, is "proportional representation" based on Bible truth? According to Scripture, there are to be no ethnic distinctions within the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:12,13). But it is on the basis of spiritual gifts that churches are to operate, not on the basis of color or ethnicity. So in trying to address racism within the SBC, the leadership wants to be politically correct rather than biblical sound. When will they ever learn?

This quite even in this case, because both are mere products of natural reason
A new claim but perhaps devoid from the facts.
God bless

I would agree that they are confused. It’s sad that postmodern thinking has invaded the SBC . It’s tragic that this has happened to them we can only pray for them . Also if given the opportunity show them their error.
Blessings
Bill

Not necessarily a new claim according to the the Baptist congress proceedings of 1885 they ( SBC) referred to themselves as Protestant. As seen in the SBC historical archives.
Blessings
Bill

Hi Sir
Could you link me to that claim. I havent found it yet. I gone to sbla information and so far theres no claim maybe i slip it.

Hallo Nehemiah6

I hope I'm not entering an over-heated conversation.

I'm with you up until the last sentence.
Just make sure not to judge Reformed Theology according to it's interpretations by the Baptist Churches recently. Their take on "predestination" and the Solas and Reformed Theology as a whole is (if I can allow myself to say it) very shallow and not a reflection of Reformed Theology in it's origin and it's context: the 15th century.
Understanding Reformed Theology proper is a bit more work than watching one or two sentimental John Piper videos on YouTube. I hope you agree.

So if your sentence was: "Anyhow Baptists' understanding of Reformed Theology (aka Five Point Calvinism) is a DISTORTION of the Gospel." I'd agree. Whether Reformed Theology proper is such, that we can still talk about.

Also I would like to very much agree with and emphasize your second point:
Anabaptists i.e. "Baptists" have always been regarded, by the Roman Catholic Church and the Reformed i.e. Protestant Churches as being sectarian.

This btw. also means that the Roman Catholic Church accusation that it was the Reformed movement that made Christianity splitter into all the different churches and sects we have today does not hold. Most sectarian movements have their origins in the Baptist environment of the "new world".