Sabbath

what's all this:

Genesis 15:8-10
And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

Genesis 15:18
In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates

?

i notice that blood was shed, and a manifestation of the Almighty passed between. seems important

Before the law.


When did the Lord perform His blood letting in the covenant He made with Abraham?



JPT

When did the Lord cut His flesh and shed His blood in the covenant He made with Abraham.


Abraham’s part was circumcision.


JPT

need He?

did He shed His own blood to make a covenant with Noah, or at Sinai, or with Levi, or with David?

the sign given to Abraham was circumcision. but Abraham was declared righteous before circumcision ((Paul kinda makes a big deal out of this)) because Abraham believed the promise. circumcision was given later as a sign.

similar to the the people being brought out of Egypt before the sabbaths were given to them as signs, though that was a different covenant. it's interesting, I'm on a phone atm and it's not practical to find it, but I believe it was mailman Dan that posted a link explaining how the early church council compared sabbath to circumcision when they decided that keeping it as the Jews do was not required of believers in Christ. I was completely unaware of this until I read his link, having drawn similar conclusions from only reading the scripture, praying and meditating on it all. never even heard anyone present an argument to that effect. but now having read that I understand partly why the Slanderer was accusing me of pope worship.

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Abraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

He has remembered His covenant forever,

The covenant He made with Abraham,

His oath to Yitsḥaq,

established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law,

To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.

According to PS 105 the COvenant with Israel is the same as the one made with Abraham...

Jeremiah 31:33, “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Yisra’yl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people.”

according to Paul thise in Messiah are a part of the Covenant with Abraham:

Romans 9:6-8, “However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed.”

Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. Galatians 3:17

then 'confirmed' before the Law. In Christ. right?

Who is the smoking firepot and Who is the burning lamp that passed between the bloody parts of the animals?

why were the birds not divided?

Except it was the levitical priesthood sacrifices that were 430 years later... not the "Law" do not kill, do not steal etc...


Lets see the promise.





Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;





5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.





But Abraham didn't have the Levitical Priesthood, Levi wasn't even born yet. That Law was "ADDED" 430 years later.





17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Psalms 105:10-11
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, [and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance

Ezekiel 47:22-23
And it shall come to pass, [that] ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, [that] in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give [him] his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.

doesn't the Law forbid the inheritance being given to Gentiles?

however:

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

and:

Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.

"Sabbath keeping" is not rest. "Sabbath keeping" is working at the law.

If you read in the 10 commandments that you are supposed to do something and with your will and your strength you do it, that is working at the law.

Very simple.

Rest is the ceasing of your work at the law. When a person ceases their work then they do what God did in Genesis.

The ONLY way to cease from your work at the Law is to come to Christ and be given Rest as His Gift.


If you continue to look to the law and with your own will and strength do those things that you THINK it says then you are still working at the law and you have not received rest. Just like ancient Israel before you.

Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

So you have a choice.

1. Continue in your work at the law. Rely on your own strength and understanding to fulfill it.

2. Come to Christ and receive Rest. Cease from your own work as God did from His.

I don;t believe so, as as long as Gentiles took part of the things/ways of Yah they are always "grafted in" or considered a part of Israyl:

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

I would think this is perfectly in line with Ez 47:22-23, now if one remains outside the promise/covenant with Yah then I would say yes, but Ex 47 says: " to the strangers that sojourn among you" this is the same Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you" Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee

That saying "sojourns among you" implies that they follow Yah? That they are no longer "Gentiles" because it says "they are as nativeborn" I think the rabbi and pharisee types always reject this Law/teaching honestly.

But Hebrews 4 says there remains a rest that we must enter. The rest is when the Kingdom of God is manifested in our lives [ie: in the Kingdom]. Until then there also remains work.

Php. 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

So I will take a third option and keep working out my salvation, not by keeping a law but by obeying God.

Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

Since the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed should come it was always temporary.


The Abrahamic Covenant is what we are grafted into, through faith in Christ, which is why the blessing of of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.



JPT

I have answered many questions from you, while you keep ignoring mine.

The Lord made covenant with Abraham in Genesis 17.

Please read.


And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:2



When did the Lord, initiate His part of the cutting of flesh and shedding of blood, in Making covenant with Abraham?



Please answer.



JPT

I agree that God says he will not break the Covenant in Psalm 89. but I believe the issue is, is the Covenant in Psalm 89 the same as the Covenant in Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 8?

Do you believe there is only one Covenant? I believe there is a covenant mentioned in Genesis 9 about God not destroying the Earth by flood. would that be the same Covenant as one of the ones mentioned above?

I believe that the Covenant that God makes with Abraham that's talked about in Galatians chapter 3 is ratified by God, and I think that happens before the giving of the law through Moses. so that Covenant would have been ratified long before Jesus shed his blood.

In Galatians chapter 4 it speaks of 2 Covenants. the first Covenant is the one from Mount Sinai, which apparently is the one you don't really want to be part of, compared to the second Covenant which relates to the Heavenly Jerusalem.

sure, God made the Covenant with Abraham, or Jesus made the Covenant with Abraham...

I believe the issue is the New Covenant in Jesus blood, the New Covenant that is talked about in Hebrews chapter 8 and other places in the New Testament, I haven't seen a strong connection between the New Covenant and Abraham's Covenant. though I do agree that we are children of the promise given to Abraham. that's how it looks to me at this point, but I'm willing to look at scriptures.

Nor have I seen any significant evidence that the word for new in New Covenant means renewed.

people who study the text of the New Testament and how it was transmitted say it is questionable, the phrase in Christ. My source for that is the SBLGNT available at Bible Gateway.

I did answer your question about the word new and New Creation. you quoted it in the post just previous to the one I am responding to, and said amen.

"I believe that when we are born again, we receive a new spirit that is born of God. thus, we are brothers of Jesus. we are that way a new creation. but we live in the same human body, and on the same created Earth."

did you want me to talk more about that?

Yes I beleive it is the same because if we look at PS 105 there is no doubt that the Covenant made with Abraham was continued with Israel:

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Abraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

Jeremiah 31:33, “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Yisra’yl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people.”

and about Galatians Paul also says it is the same covenant as Abraham as with Messiah:

Romans 9:6-8, “However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed.”

Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”

and PS 105 and Jer 31 show the COvenant with Abraham is the same as with Israel... I think and this is me summing it up, YHWH basically made a Covenant for all mankind that would partake in it, and at different times different people did, malak-zadiq was the high priest at one point than men were, yet same covenant, men died and new priests came, same covenant, it seems like i said before that the difference between a physical priesthood and living under that would have been such a ridical chage to have Yahshua as High Priest, and some of the allegory is spot on, because the levitical priesthood's "atonement" was much harder "work" on the average person than what the aversage person has under the HighPriest Yahshua... A lot there but that is basic view. but again those first 2 passages I posted are clear IMO.

please see post #604

we would do well not to leave out where He says through Jeremiah,

and not to forget, to Abraham, then to Isaac, and then to Jacob ((Israel)) He made a covenant to give them the land:

to the children of Israel in the wildreness He said, 'if' they keep the Law. the blessings and the curses.
to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, He simply promised.