Not By Works

I've noticed this myself. It seems many times they just gloss right over his writings. And quote some other Scripture.

I've noticed this myself. It seems many times they just gloss right over his writings. And quote some other Scripture.

Paul is the most misused writer in the Bible, so much so that it was even a problem is Kepha/Peter's day that he had to write a letter saying anyone who read Paul and thought they could be without the Law of YHWH were "twisting their own destruction":

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn.”

I personally see this very much today, I think this is why most poeple ignore Yahshua almost entirely and ONLY quote and read Paul.

a lot of them, if you press them, will admit that they do not take all of Paul's writings as authoritative Scripture.

People who are unstable twist all Scripture. As you can see it says, as they do also the other Scriptures.

Peter goes on to say... watch lest you fall but grow in favor and knowledge of Christ. This is how we watch ourselves from error. Notice he doesn't say grow in knowledge of the law, but grow in understanding of our Lord. Being lawless isn't being without the ministry of the Stone Commandments, which passed away. It's being without the Spirit of Christ guiding our lives. He is our Master.

I've noticed that too. It makes sense though because Paul clearly refutes law-keeping. So they get to the point, that they either let the Scripture transform their interpretation or they toss out what doesn't agree.

Well Paul's is singled out, you can dance around that and yes people twist all Scripture but Peter says "Paul is hard to understand" but everyone I know says they understand him perfectly and the Law is gone, yet Peter says, "dont be carried away with the Lawless"

Well accoding to the MEssiah the Law is not gone:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods (elohim) and everyone who professes to love, yet practices breaking the Law."

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

Do you realize you ignored what Paul himself said? Peter lived himself lived like a Gentile, but he was showing preference to the Jews.

This was not in step with the gospel. Because the Jews by birth didn’t even live by the Law. So why cause the Gentiles to want to be like Jews?

ok

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."

I figured you would go here.

The law is not gone. It is fulfilled.
Those who want to live by it. It still exists.
But it's ministry for us believers has passed away.

Your reply seems to indicate that you think obedience and commandments are to point you to the law. And you find OT Scripture to back up this interpretation. But OT Scripture wasn't written to you. It was written to the Jews who were under the Law. It doesn't mean it's not useful, but it is incomplete.

Jesus came to complete our understanding. NT Scripture isn't to point you to the law, it's to point you to the Lord. Do you see the difference?

Check out this passage in 2 Co 3:

2 Corinthians 7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?

12Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.

We have a hope that Moses did not have. But for those who do not turn to the Lord, we see this:

14But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

Without looking at the OT through Christ the same veil remains. That's how Jesus completes our understanding. So we must look at the OT through Him. Or else we risk having our minds hardened just like the Jews did.

15Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.

Notice it says "When Moses is read" when it discusses the OT. Because much of the OT is given to Jews through Moses. But we Gentiles come in through Abraham (Gal 3).

So how do we remove the veil?

16But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

And that is why we don't turn to the Law. We turn to the Lord. The Spirit of God. He is our Freedom.

Those who look elsewhere are not free. And those who try to understand OT Scripture without Him have a veil over their understanding. Only He can remove it.

You're taking most of these out of context.

For example Romans 3 is about the law's purpose to lead us to Christ. We establish it.

Romans 7 is written to those who are still under the Law. Showing them that they need Christ. Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?

We of course die to the Law and live to Christ, our Lord.

Acts 21, Paul didn't put himself under the Law, he was advised to follow a custom.

Romans 8, not talking about the 10 commandments. It's talking about living according to the Spirit. And He is our Lord. As you can see two verses above your bold.

Not all Jews were rebellious towards God thou. Jesus was a Jew that was not rebellious towards God and neither was Zechariahs or the wise men.. I didn't ignore what Paul is teaching, I am embracing it. A Jew is one inwardly. And as my Savior said "Salvation is of the Jews".

If fulfilled means gone then all righteousnes is gone also...

Now most people are told this is the place the Messiah “did away with the Law,” because He “fulfilled it.”

Matthew 3:15, “But יהושע answering, said to him, “Permit it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill righteousness.” Then he permitted Him.”

“fulfill” is word #G4137 πληρόω pleroo (plee-ro'-ō) v., 1. to fully, completely fill., 2. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow)., 3. (figuratively) to fully supply, satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.


[from G4134], KJV: accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply, Root(s): G4134


ALL HAS NOT YET been fulfilled, Yahshua has still to return as the Lion:

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”

There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever

To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”


I will stand on the words of the MEssiah thank you:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."


but there is another one who speaks against Yah:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

If fulfilled means gone then all righteousnes is gone also...

Now most people are told this is the place the Messiah “did away with the Law,” because He “fulfilled it.”

Matthew 3:15, “But יהושע answering, said to him, “Permit it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill righteousness.” Then he permitted Him.”

“fulfill” is word #G4137 πληρόω pleroo (plee-ro'-ō) v., 1. to fully, completely fill., 2. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow)., 3. (figuratively) to fully supply, satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.


[from G4134], KJV: accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply, Root(s): G4134


ALL HAS NOT YET been fulfilled, Yahshua has still to return as the Lion:

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”

There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever

To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”


I will stand on the words of the MEssiah thank you:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."


but there is another one who speaks against Yah:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

I didn't saw fulfilled was gone. I said it still existed for those who chose to live by it. For those in Christ it is fulfilled. You're either in Christ or you're not. But for those in Christ the Law is fulfilled. And now we live by faith in Him. As it is written the JUST shall live by faith. Not the Law. Only God can show you this, I suppose.

ok sure.

Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, יהוה is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for יהוה has spoken this word. The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.”

Well I see it as a part of following Mesiah, following His Law mediated by the MEssiah:

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by faith (steadfastness)."





Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”





John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”





Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

It's amazing to me that you try to live by the OT Scriptures, when Jews who devoted their entire life could not. And Jews who understand who Christ was counted all of their Jewish heritage as loss compared to knowing Him.

I understand what you believe. But you're also tearing Scripture apart picking verse by verse instead of actually studying entire NT Scripture passages. And that is one of the biggest errors of interpretation.

I've noticed that too. It makes sense though because Paul clearly refutes law-keeping. So they get to the point, that they either let the Scripture transform their interpretation or they toss out what doesn't agree.

It makes sense though because Paul clearly refutes law-keeping.