Are the words of the Messiah above all else?

OneFaith · Apr 22, 2018

“ALL authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus Christ.”

“This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!”

The New Testament does not come from the apostles, but through the apostles. It comes from Jesus who commanded them to write down what He commanded them to- therefore they are His teachings, not the secretaries who wrote them down.

posthuman · Apr 22, 2018

Magenta said:

what Z is saying is that in Egypt at the time, they were probably still only writing in hieroglyphs - which are used very similarly to the way we use emojii now; it's not a complete alphabet used to write something like a document. there are other forms of Egyptian writing that have something like an alphabet, that you can use to write out complete words and sentences etc, but they apparently didn't show up until hundreds of years later. the Phoenician alphabet didn't appear until a few hundred years after the Exodus, either.

of course, we go by how old the oldest example we dig out of the sand is, in order to estimate when writing was 'invented' or 'appeared' -- like Nehemiah said, couldn't God have given him knowledge of a form of writing? well, that's exactly how the Egyptians viewed their hieroglyphs: taught to mankind by Toth, they say. and to be used with caution and respect, because the written word has creative power, they say.

anyway we could easily be wrong about dating the appearance of language, because we haven't dug absolutely everything out of the sand, and some things may have turned to sand themselves before we ever dig them up.

it's established that there was Ugaritic writing and cuneiform apparently in Canaan and Babylon ~ 16th to 13th century BC. Moses was raised in the court of Pharaoh and presumably received among the finest of Egyptian educations. he later spent 40 years up north, after fleeing -- and a wise, learned man continues in wisdom and continues learning, doesn't he? possible Moses picked up forms of writing more suitable to writing out narrative text during this period. maybe he actually 'invented' -- or received directly from God - written Hebrew.

some people say the Pentateuch wasn't written at all until the Babylonian captivity, and that the Hebrews picked up writing there and put down what had formerly been only oral history. i don't really buy that.

it's an interesting question which answer of AFAIK isn't really clear.

Zmouth · Apr 23, 2018

Magenta said:

LOL, well dah!

But of course, some can read yet not understand since they can't perceive seeing what they read (See Matthew 13:14)

And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words. Ex 24:7-8

Hopefully you aren't going to say that the two tables of stone where written in Hebrew are you?

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Ex 24:12

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18

And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables. Ex 32:15-16

While the Pentateuch, or the Five Books of Moses which form the writings of the Torah were written in the Hebrew tongue, they were not written until after Moses death.

And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. Deuteronomy 34:7-8

mcubed · Apr 23, 2018

I voted and when I saw the results I was SHOCKED!!! 57.14& Messiah's words were above the whole Bible only 27.57 (when I voted). How is that possible? Is Messiah not G-d, Himself? Did G-d not Himself write the Bible? Is all Scripture not G-d breathed by His Holy Spirit? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?! NO WONDER CHRISTIANS DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE AUTHORITY OF G-D!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And questionably Christian? Thank G-d He is your judge and not me!!!!

Grandpa · Apr 23, 2018

mcubed said:

It doesn't make sense to pit some of the bible against other parts of the bible. Except to judaizers and legalists.

Most of the bible is the spokesperson for God being written down. If you say that the spokesperson shouldn't count because God has spoken then you aren't understanding either the spokesperson or God.

Budman · Apr 23, 2018

I don't understand this poll, frankly.

God (The Holy Spirit) inspired every word of scripture, so why elevate one over another?

Shamah · Apr 23, 2018

Shamah said:

Budman said:

On the surface it appears a correct doctrine what you say, however can you address this passage and tell me the Creator didn't put the Messiah's words above all?

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Can you adress this verse and tell me the Messiah Himself did not put His words above all?

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

and the disciples appear to have the same view, because they quote Moses writings in support of the Messiah being the One we "must hear and obey"

Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

I think if these passages are honestly considered what I say is not so crazy but a Scriptual reality.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 24, 2018

Shamah said:

I believe you are correct. Although the whole Bible is the Word of God, the recorded words of Christ must have the greatest significance in Scripture. Hence we have this statement:

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (Heb 1:1,2)

The significance of this is further enforced by the fact that Christ is the eternal LOGOS. The Word of God. And it was the Word of God (in a double sense) that created all things. Hence we have this Scripture:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14).

Therefore Christians must give absolute priority to the words of Christ.

Shamah · Apr 25, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

I truly, truly believe this, again I think it evident in these verses we both quoted. I have also had the thoughts that is believers did this they would be more firmly on His narrow path.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]

lightbearer · Apr 25, 2018

There is no difference from what Christ gave and what is written in the rest of the Holy Writ . It is all of Christ.

stonesoffire · Apr 25, 2018

Dino246 said:

I see this thread as an opportunity for those who understand that the body of Christ is spiritual Israel, not the nation that's given laws to obey. The nation of Israel rejects their Messiah at this time, so they are yet under the OT laws of what one must do to be holy and acceptable to God. We also see that they trust in Him too for protection from their enemies. God is with them. It's His promise to them.

We however, are raised to be Sons through the instruction given to us through the Spirit of God. We have received this inheritance bought for us through Messiah, because of this one fact...we obeyed the gospel. Some of us live in the USA whose God is the God of Abraham too, with Yeshua as our Lord.

Those who obey the gospel or the good news of Messiah and His blood offering is what the OT is declaring. Some believe...some do not obey.

Shamah, you must seperate yourself as being part of Yeshua, led by His Spirit. Then the puzzle you are yet trying to figure out, will come together in your thinking, and you will know what scriptures are yours, and what is fulfilled.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 25, 2018

lightbearer said:

Yes it is all of Christ, but at the same time the recorded words of Christ are not identical to what is written in the OT. What He spoke was to be given special attention.

DEUTERONOMY 18

15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Shamah · Apr 25, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Im not sure what you are fully saying here, but is there a single post you can uote of mine that I seem, appear or anything like that as not a follower of the Messiah? DO I not constantly talk about obedience to Him and being under His priesthood?

Shamah · Apr 25, 2018

I ask that anyone who disagrees with my view that the Messiah's words are above all address the passages in the original post. A few people have state disagreement yet havecompletely ignored the Scriptual evidence I present to support my stance. I ask this from a perspective of honesty not seperation.

Shamah said:

Are the words of the Messiah above all else? or Is every biblical writer of the same authority?

I say 100% without a doubt Yahshua's words are above all, this is Scriptually why I believe this:

John 8:17-18, “In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two people is valid. I am testifying about myself, and the Father who sent me is testifying about me.”

John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Shamah · Aug 18, 2018

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

He teachings are still valid "post cross"

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

Iwant to focus on "These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. ...the Set-apart Spirit,..remind you of all that I said to you"

So His valid teachings are the ones HE SPOKE WHILE IN THE FLESH and the holy spirit will bring THESE teachings to the rememberance of His followers...

John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."

Yahshua is the ONLY Shepherd/Pastor...

His will, His way, His Kingdom... Could we make a way for ourselves that could even be better than His way? NO.

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

He is the ONE we must "hear and obey" He has a plan for each and every one of us. We should heed His call, no matter what it looks like His way is better than what we can make for ourselves...

dcontroversal · Aug 18, 2018

Shamah said:

Are the words of the Messiah above all else? or Is every biblical writer of the same authority?

I say 100% without a doubt Yahshua's words are above all, this is Scriptually why I believe this:

John 8:17-18, “In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two people is valid. I am testifying about myself, and the Father who sent me is testifying about me.”

John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

And you would be wrong....ALL inspired writers have GIVEN the word of GOD, unless otherwise NOTED......The words of PAUL are the WORDS of JESUS.....get over it!

Shamah · Aug 18, 2018

dcontroversal said:

What about when YHWH says:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

Kepha/Peter seems to view it in the same manner I do:

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

As does the Messiah:

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

How do you view/consider these passages concerning: the Messiah being the "Sent One" we must "hear and obey"? Yahshua literally said ""These Words I have spoken to you while still with you" and that the Holy SPirit would " remind you of all that I said to you"

dcontroversal · Aug 18, 2018

Shamah said:

What about when YHWH says:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

Kepha/Peter seems to view it in the same manner I do:

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

As does the Messiah:

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

How do you view/consider these passages concerning: the Messiah being the "Sent One" we must "hear and obey"? Yahshua literally said ""These Words I have spoken to you while still with you" and that the Holy SPirit would " remind you of all that I said to you"

EVERY word of GOD is inspired and EQUAL in weight and application unless otherwise NOTED........Genesis 1:1 to the last verse of Revelation.......it ALL equals the word OF GOD unless otherwise noted.....The words of PAUL, JOHN, PETER, JUDE, JAMES, ISAIAH, JEREMIAH, DANIEL etc...ARE ALL the words of CHRIST/GOD......and he ALSO said HE had many things to say, but they were not yet READY...EVERYTHING past the 4 gospels......

Shamah · Aug 18, 2018

dcontroversal said:

That assessment does not consider the Scripture I posted, I posted those Scriptures because I believe it shows Yahshua's words above all. How do you view the meaning of those Scriptures?

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

Kepha/Peter seems to view it in the same manner I do:

Acts 3:19-23, “...For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

As does the Messiah:

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

prove-all · Aug 18, 2018

What about The Fathers words ?

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John” (Revelation 1:1).

This book was not revealed by John, or an angel, or even Jesus Christ!
It was revealed by God the Father, who gave it to His Son.
Christ then gave it to an angel, who gave it to John.

The book of Revelation came from a source higher than Jesus Christ.
It came from the supreme authority in the universe—God the Father!

Christ was given revelation by God,
but then Christ added words written in red.

Are the words of the Messiah above all else?

Are the words of the Messiah above all else?

Yes the Messiah's words are of the highest authority

No every Biblical writer is equal

Other (please explain)

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