Calvinism vs. Arminianism?
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I believe I did say "PRIDE caused the destruction that came upon Nebuchadnezzar - the fulfillment of his dream." The fulfillment of the dream wasn't "punishment" - that dream being fulfilled would be the "consequences" of Nebuchadnezzar's rebellion. Daniel told him this - "break off your sins by [doing] righteousness, and your iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor, if it may be a lengthening of your tranquility". There was a way for that dream NOT to be fulfilled - IF Nebuchadnezzar had broken off from sinning and shewed mercy to the poor . . . things would have been different. Did his remaining prideful result in the fulfillment of the dream - Yes. Was he abased because of that result - Yes. Men will pay the consequences for their sin.
Easily understand that it means "who will have all elect men to be saved"? If the "elect" are saved already - why then does God need to desire that "all elect men be saved"? When someone is "elect", surely they have already "come to repentance"? 2 Peter 3:9 . . . not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. . .
You do know that when you add a word to scripture - you no longer have the truth of scripture.
You do know that when you add a word to scripture - you no longer have the truth of scripture.
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We don't add a single word, we merely identify who the above scriptures are referring to.
The scriptures above were spoken to believers, and yes we believe that all men were born fallen and dead in trespasses and sin. As such we still needed to hear the gospel and then use our gift of faith to believe it, while those without the gift are sealed to reject it forever.
The scriptures above were spoken to believers, and yes we believe that all men were born fallen and dead in trespasses and sin. As such we still needed to hear the gospel and then use our gift of faith to believe it, while those without the gift are sealed to reject it forever.
I can easily list 40 verses which expose your twisted Arminian gospel but it's no use. Let's face it, we all choose to understand the Gospel in a way that suits our own fallen state. That's why we have 40,000 Christian denominations, all claiming that their understanding is the only correct one.
We all make the scriptures conform to our expectation, It's just a part of our fallen human nature and everyone is guilty of it, including yourself.
We all make the scriptures conform to our expectation, It's just a part of our fallen human nature and everyone is guilty of it, including yourself.
U
The mystery of election according to Calvinism, are you really okay with this....because in practical terms what you are saying is if you’re saved, you’re saved, but if you’re damned, you’re damned, and there is nothing you can do about it either way.
Since we all deserve to be damned we need to be thankful God has selected some of us for heaven, because God is sovereign after all.
Sadly "sovereignty" has been stretched beyond the etymologically meaning of "supreme power" to absolute controller which is more aligned with Augustine and Aristotle as the unmoved mover rather than the God of the Bible who clearly has given His creation some measure of freedom which only He can do, as well as His own ability to respond to His creation, which reflects His true sovereignty, not the controlling puppet master that Calvinism seems to create.
Then there is the question of the love of God which is totally sidestepped in this theology because a God who is Love begs the question would He not give His gift to all?
So we are left with a God who only loves some, (although Jesus certainly did not behave that way) enough to extend His saving "faith gift."
Even in our most vile wicked state do we as mere humans typically desire all to be saved especially our family and friends, yet the God of this theology, (largely based on the philosophy of Augustine, an indisputable fact quite ironic since many people here despise Catholicism) desires to save only some based on His sovereign choice.
But we dare not question the sovereignty of God since the only other option is decisional regeneration.
While I do not believe a decision regenerates anyone I do know the God regenerates those who believe in good news of Christ Jesus.
Carry on Nehemiah and Shrume and others please....this theology breaks me heart it maligns the very nature of God so evident in the life of Jesus.
Since we all deserve to be damned we need to be thankful God has selected some of us for heaven, because God is sovereign after all.
Sadly "sovereignty" has been stretched beyond the etymologically meaning of "supreme power" to absolute controller which is more aligned with Augustine and Aristotle as the unmoved mover rather than the God of the Bible who clearly has given His creation some measure of freedom which only He can do, as well as His own ability to respond to His creation, which reflects His true sovereignty, not the controlling puppet master that Calvinism seems to create.
Then there is the question of the love of God which is totally sidestepped in this theology because a God who is Love begs the question would He not give His gift to all?
So we are left with a God who only loves some, (although Jesus certainly did not behave that way) enough to extend His saving "faith gift."
Even in our most vile wicked state do we as mere humans typically desire all to be saved especially our family and friends, yet the God of this theology, (largely based on the philosophy of Augustine, an indisputable fact quite ironic since many people here despise Catholicism) desires to save only some based on His sovereign choice.
But we dare not question the sovereignty of God since the only other option is decisional regeneration.
While I do not believe a decision regenerates anyone I do know the God regenerates those who believe in good news of Christ Jesus.
Carry on Nehemiah and Shrume and others please....this theology breaks me heart it maligns the very nature of God so evident in the life of Jesus.
You Arminians are a strange bunch, you only accept half of the gospel and ignore the other half.
You accept that God is love but you reject the fact that God is hate at the same time.
You don't give God the right to love whom He will love and to hate whom He will hate.
You ignore the mountains of scriptures which say that God is the One who chooses to save some and leave others in sin, and to love some and hate others. You create your own god who loves wicked sinners and lowers Himself down to embrace evil and love it. We believe your view is not only false but it denigrates God down to a level of sinful, depraved men.
You accept that God is love but you reject the fact that God is hate at the same time.
You don't give God the right to love whom He will love and to hate whom He will hate.
You ignore the mountains of scriptures which say that God is the One who chooses to save some and leave others in sin, and to love some and hate others. You create your own god who loves wicked sinners and lowers Himself down to embrace evil and love it. We believe your view is not only false but it denigrates God down to a level of sinful, depraved men.
U
I am not an Arminian, I am not all that familiar with their doctrine in any real depth, I do believe that scripture teaches we are eternally secure based on God's irrevocable justification.
I would suggest a thorough study of what "hate" means in scripture, especially when you are making it an attribute of God. It is not to be likened to human hate.
It is very disturbing you give equal measure of both love and hate to God when scripture clearly refutes this.
Do you not find it interesting that Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who placed Him on the cross, your theology of the hatred and the sovereignty of God, falls apart completely at the cross.
Wow this is quite the statement... Let me remind you, we are all sinful, in fact you and me are closer to the worst sinner on earth than to the perfection of Jesus at any given moment. It is only the righteousness of Christ that saves us, and yes He did died for those evil people.
Do you despise the love of God towards sinners is that why you embrace Calvinism?
I would suggest a thorough study of what "hate" means in scripture, especially when you are making it an attribute of God. It is not to be likened to human hate.
It is very disturbing you give equal measure of both love and hate to God when scripture clearly refutes this.
Do you not find it interesting that Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who placed Him on the cross, your theology of the hatred and the sovereignty of God, falls apart completely at the cross.
Wow this is quite the statement... Let me remind you, we are all sinful, in fact you and me are closer to the worst sinner on earth than to the perfection of Jesus at any given moment. It is only the righteousness of Christ that saves us, and yes He did died for those evil people.
Do you despise the love of God towards sinners is that why you embrace Calvinism?
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You added the word "elect" to both of those verses. Yes, they are written to believers, i.e. the church. It is instruction to us - we should be ambassadors for Christ for it is God's will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of him - faith comes from hearing - we are to be witnesses of the things God has done for us and witnesses of the good news so that men will have the opportunity to receive or reject the gospel. God is delaying the return of Christ to give everyone the opportunity to hear the gospel. But to try to apply those verses to ONLY the elect is not correct for the elect are saved already and in 2 Peter - the elect have already repented.
The verse - "Who will have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth" - Now in reality that does not say that God tried to save all men but failed miserably - that is your understanding of the verse. My understanding of the verse is that it is God's desire, his wish is that mankind will choose to love him.
We are the ones who ambassadors and stand in Christ stead to lead others to him by the preaching of the gospel - It is up to the individual to make that commitment to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, to believe that God raised him from the dead, then that individual is born again of the Spirit and becomes a child of God. What God "set out" was the PLAN for salvation - belief in his only begotten Son. That is his plan and purpose for salvation and that is what people have to do in order to be saved.
We are the ones who ambassadors and stand in Christ stead to lead others to him by the preaching of the gospel - It is up to the individual to make that commitment to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, to believe that God raised him from the dead, then that individual is born again of the Spirit and becomes a child of God. What God "set out" was the PLAN for salvation - belief in his only begotten Son. That is his plan and purpose for salvation and that is what people have to do in order to be saved.
I agree with most of that except the elect have not all yet repented, some are yet to hear the Gospel and others are yet to be born. Then you have those who hear the gospel for years before they are converted, they are all elect but they don't receive eternal life until they repent and that could be on their death bed with their final berth or as a young child.
Those two scriptures you Armininas keep referring to were spoken to and directed at the believers only. They were never spoken to or or directed at the reprobate who have 0.00% chance of repenting, so it wouldn't make sense to offer them something which God said was only for His elect.
Those two scriptures you Armininas keep referring to were spoken to and directed at the believers only. They were never spoken to or or directed at the reprobate who have 0.00% chance of repenting, so it wouldn't make sense to offer them something which God said was only for His elect.
Again, with all due respect I kindly decline your gods offer of salvation. Why? because he is not as powerful as my God. My God doesn't have wishes or desires, He only has commands so when He commands something to exist or happen it does exactly as commanded without ever failing.
I know all about the Arminian god, who has a long track record of failures. He's not very powerful, he is disappointed with his performance. He is begging people to love him but the vast majority mock him and reject his offer as foolishness, so he goes and has a good cry over it.
He has been trying to convince people to love him for 6000 years he has been rejected at least 150 billion times, so you can understand why he is so depressed, poor little god.
I know all about the Arminian god, who has a long track record of failures. He's not very powerful, he is disappointed with his performance. He is begging people to love him but the vast majority mock him and reject his offer as foolishness, so he goes and has a good cry over it.
He has been trying to convince people to love him for 6000 years he has been rejected at least 150 billion times, so you can understand why he is so depressed, poor little god.
So do you think all Calvinist are elect? I would think not because if God chooses only some to be elect no matter what and some he doesn't choose no matter what...then nobody would truly know until the end, I guess.
So with that line of thinking then you may or may not be one of the elect....you may or may not be saved and just want to be, but God may not want you and you're just wasting your time.
Is that the message you are trying to get across?
So with that line of thinking then you may or may not be one of the elect....you may or may not be saved and just want to be, but God may not want you and you're just wasting your time.
Is that the message you are trying to get across?
Not only is this offensively insulting, it is also a straw man argument. Christians who reject the false Gospel of Calvinism do not have another "god" as you put it. They simply reject false doctrine and the "god" named John Calvin (whose beliefs trump Scripture as far as you are concerned).
Again, this is seriously offensive, insulting, and blasphemous. If you believe you have made any points for Calvinism through this garbage, you are greatly mistaken.
When someone resorts to such nonsense, what they are saying is that don't have a leg to stand on. I trust you will not continue in this vein since some may request that you be banned for offensive and meaningless nonsense.
Again, this is seriously offensive, insulting, and blasphemous. If you believe you have made any points for Calvinism through this garbage, you are greatly mistaken.
When someone resorts to such nonsense, what they are saying is that don't have a leg to stand on. I trust you will not continue in this vein since some may request that you be banned for offensive and meaningless nonsense.
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