For those of you who think Jesus is not God.

I've seen people say that here and for those who think so I challenge anyone to show us what this verse means:
Romans 9:5 New International Version (NIV)
5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Romans 9:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Romans 9:5 English Standard Version (ESV)
5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 9:5 American Standard Version (ASV)
5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


I posted the most popular translations to show it's not a matter pf translation, as I believe you can also see it in the greek.

Why are you convinently choosing certain translations to heavily bias your "proof"?

Not saying one thing or another, just that I find it rather shady when this is done.

AMEN!

What would be a good translation to show Jesus is not God according to this passage?
As I said I picked the most popular translations and I also said I believe the greek shows Jesus is God too, then if the greek is clear why would other translations matter?

You have to understand that you won't get anywhere in the debate with scripture.

This is a matter that has spanned millennia. The orthodox view has reigned supreme, but please understand that this dilema is not without cause. There's a reason why it's been debated for so long.

Believe what you want to believe. But if you think you're going to change the world with a few quotes, it won't happen, just trying to save you some breath.

You should look into some of the history behind this debate. You might see what I'm trying to say.

If scripture is our ultimate authority and it clearly and plainly says Jesus is God, what is there to debate, at that point wouldn't it just be people not accepting what scripture says? That is even if we think translations are faulty and look at the greek.

It is true Jesus is God, for it is the only way it can be for salvation to be provided to people.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jesus cannot be a created God, for there is no God formed before God, or after Him, and there is no God beside Him.

And there is no such thing as a created god for anything created is of physical substance, and God can assemble, and disassemble, physical objects, which cannot be a supreme being, which God who is an omnipresent Spirit, and cannot be blown up, cannot disintegrate, cannot wear away, and nothing can do anything to harm Him, is the supreme being.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God is the only one who can be the Savior, for only a sinless man can reconcile mankind to God, which no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled mankind to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

It throws some people off how Jesus can be God, when God is an omnipresent Spirit, but when the Bible says Jesus is God manifest in the flesh it means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and He has the Spirit without measure, and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness should dwell, and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for God cannot be separated, and the man Christ Jesus is God's personal human body, which He laid down His life for us, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God to the saints forever.

Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father, for there is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on it, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus at the right hand of God means that God exalted the Son to exercise the throne of power until His enemies are conquered, then the Son shall submit to the Father, stop exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand, that God may be all in all, for the Son does not have to mediate between God and the saints anymore, for all the saints are with Him now, and His enemies are conquered.

Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him then he has seen the Father. Jesus is the only visible image of God the saints will see.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

No person has ever seen Jesus, and no person will ever see Jesus, for He is God an invisible Spirit, but He showed the Jews a visible image of Himself, and provided salvation, and will be the visible image of God to the saints forever.

Jesus has to be God for salvation to be valid, and Jesus is the only visible image of God we will see, and if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father.

And Jesus cannot be a created god, for there is no such thing as a created god, but only a creation of God, and there was no God formed before or after God, and there is no God beside Him.

And the Bible calls Jesus, God, and God in the Old Testament said He will be the Savior, and the New Testament claims God is the Savior, so Jesus is God that is the Savior.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.

Some people may say Jesus is not God, but do not let them spoil you through their speaking, and beliefs, for Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

No, there has been no debate on this subject. "Jesus Christ, our God and Savior." 2 Pet 1:1

The verse in the op, the one you mentioned, the first chapter of John, and this:
John 8:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”


are very clear on the deity of Christ, I AM is a name for God in the old testaent, God reveals Himself to Moses as I AM, and Jesus identifies himself as I AM too, especially worrying Jesus says those who don't believe He is God will perish on their sins.

You know, I was thinking the same thing. Where did he ever find anyone that said Jesus Christ was not God?

I saw a thread here just the other day, there was a lot of discussion on it, although it seems the person was banned.

How do you think We got our canon?

Do you think it was God or man?

Oh sure.

To anyone that thinks I'm siding for either side I'm not. I'm just trying to educate you all on the historicity of this matter.

Same way the jews had the old testament, besides the fact that the old testament was quoted by Jesus and the apostles, we believe all the books in the new testament were inspired by the holy spirit, though written by men (although some people believe James is not inspired),

Some people are dubious of believing that Lord Jesus is also God because they thought the oneness of God is absolute numerical one.

but in fact is UNITED ONE or Echad in Hebrew or Eis in Greek.

being UNITED ONE means that they are 2 or more beings involved and with the same nature. (like the husband and wife)

Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15)

the reasons can be found also in verses 16-17.

so he is not originally man at all but I never disagree that Jesus was also man.

What are you even doing here? You told us on another thread that you are no longer Christian. Cancel your membership and leave us Christians to ourselves. If you are trying to spread unbelief, you're in the wrong place.

Since when is unbelief spread by a historical view on the subject?

I don't see anything wrong with that.

The historical church never questioned Jesus' absolute and full deity.

When it is spread by an unbeliever, yes, then it is wrong.