Not By Works

Then explain Romans 10:9, which directly says if a man confess.....he will be saved.

ah... so you believe only those who can speak will be saved...

and they will be saved through their speech?

Well did God think of that when he God-whispered into Pauls ear?

If it was plain and simple then we wouldn’t have over 3000 pages of heated debate.

So with that said, are you referring to initial salvation where we are born again, or the salvation we will receive on the Day of Judgement when we are judged according to our deeds?


JPT

What does this say?

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Please just read what the Bible so plainly says.


JPT

that fits snugly into the gospel
nothing wrong with the verse
but your understanding (as well as bens) is flawed

John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life


if this "he" cannot speak

he is still saved

by grace through faith


if he can speak

and does believe

obviously he will confess it

because we who are born again are not ashamed of Him

Hi NoName, theologians say the same thing, first comes belief our salvation a gift of God and then we confess with our mouth which is a work of the mouth. They are trying to mix our actions with Gods free gift of eternal salvation. You are absolutely correct.

Romans10:10

amen bro

Now you can really see what these horrible fake gospels are all about.

Romans8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

I explained this to you yesterday. First we believe and are saved a gift of God, the we confess with our mouth which is a work that comes after we are saved. By grace we are saved, "Not By Works"

Confession will not save anybody.

Romans10:10
10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.…

CONTEXT. James is referring to faith that merely claims to be genuine, but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead (James 2:14). That is not genuine faith, but an empty profession of faith. *Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation and not in works (Romans 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9). So faith that remains "alone" (barren of works) demonstrates that it is not authentic faith.

I've heard people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally confess with their mouth.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

That equates to salvation through faith + works.

I think Star was referencing confession of sin in after we placed faith in Jesus.

Not referencing

Romans 10:9-12
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

Do you really want to set theologians against God-whispering bible verse?

I don't think so. In fact the bible verse that you have quoted says the same thing as Romans 10:9. Romans 10:10 says ....with your mouth you confess and are saved. So I am not seeing how we can be arguing over Romans 10:9 or 10. How is it possible?

I say that you believe and confess and that this process saves you. That is what the scripture says. I am not twisting a word or implying a wrong interpretation. I am just quoting a verse and saying I agree.

You on the other hand have this aversion to good works, and somehow in your Sunday roundtable with your scholars and lawyers and your theologians, have come up with a saying that if you confess, it is paramount to work, therefore, confessing cannot be part of the salvation process, because it is considered by our august roundtable to be a good work, and everyone knows that salvation is not of works lest we boast. So let us make a change in Romans 10:9-10 and black out 'and are saved', and then it will meet our scrutiny.

Is this the way it works for you? We cannot even agree on the simplist of examples of scriptural passages that tell us straight out what one must do to be saved. Romans 10:9-10 is an example of just 1 simple verse in the bible that we cannot agree upon.

Tell me why not?

You have a very odd way of interpreting the bible.

Proverbs11:14
Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety.

So you consider confession "a work". Therefore it is not a part of salvation. I see now. Thank you.

some people just refuse the simplicity which is in Christ

(anyone who doesnt accept we are saved by grace through faith and not of works)

I'm sorry TT, when the scripture says .....and you confess with your mouth, you will be saved, I interpret that straight forward. I will teach people to believe in Jesus with all their hearts and to confess with their mouths that Jesus is the Son of God, and if you will do that you will be saved.

You OTOH, with your aversion to good works, cannot teach this simple bible concept. You have to change the scripture to say, believe in Jesus with all your hearts, and get saved, then after you are saved, confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Son of God.

Do you see a difference in interpretation? Does it even really make a difference?

It's not just about confessing

Romans 10:9-12
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

There are people I know who believe Jesus was a real person, like his teachings and some even say they want to do what he says and hope on judgement day their good works get them in. When I press in and talk about him rising from the dead they reject that.

I listen to the radio on the way into work.
They have a slot called "Pause for thought" basically a slot for a couple of minutes where leaders of various faith give a little talk. The people who do this are a selection who rotate.

This morning they had a lady give her talk, she said "Krishna my Lord"
In fact George Harrison wrote a song called "My sweet lord" in fact I had it in my music library, until I realised that a line he sung was "Hare Krishna"

So people can confess someone as Lord like Krishna but they know he did not rise from the dead.

Sadly today we see it creeping into the church that Jesus did not physically rise from the dead. I think that was the same in the early church with the Gnostics, along with other things.

So confessing Jesus as Lord, or walking in the ways he taught means absolutely nothing, NADA, diddly squat if one does not believe the Son of God physically rose again after dying on the cross whilst are sins were laid upon him and when he gave his last breath the temple curtain was torn in two so that we can come before the throne of God as a result of faith.

Romans 5:1-5

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.