Not By Works

I have never seen you so far removed from, "The Gospel" than this post, it is a pity you have no eternal security for the salvation God has provided for you. You need to study about, "The Eternal Security of the Believer." Google it.

Theologians refer to this as "ultimate sanctification", when we stand before Christ at the "Bema seat" for rewards of service in the "Body of Christ." We are always sanctified from the time we are born again to our glorification in heaven.

And we are saved the moment we are born again and throughout our Christian life. I have highlighted the part where you said, "we are not "truly saved", and this seems to be a stumbling point between you and I, "security of the believer."

There is not one point in time where we are not "saved and sanctified" otherwise we could not serve a "Holy God"

Amen....his post is so far from the truth it is tragic.....the bible is clear...SALVATION is instantly imparted at the moment of belief and carries a present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION....RIGHT NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD by BIRTH of INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....amazing how many twist this simple truth into a false dogma like he does....

Amen....his post is so far from the truth it is tragic.....the bible is clear...SALVATION is instantly imparted at the moment of belief and carries a present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION....RIGHT NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD by BIRTH of INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....amazing how many twist this simple truth into a false dogma like he does....

RIGHT NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD by BIRTH of INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....

Yes, our entire lifetime we pursue practical sanctification and then at the end, Jesus finally saves us with his grace and that sanctifying
grace lifts us up to a brand new level and we are now ready to be ultimately sanctified after our resurrection, and enter into the KOG.

I just believe that during that practical sanctification problem, we can choose to renege on God and in fact fight him. Plenty of Christians have gone that route. In that case the grace of Christ will not save us and we will lose our salvation and not be practically or finally ultimately sanctified. So we have a difference that I would like to continue to pursue, in a friendly discussion. Thanks.

ben, I have been telling you the TRUTH. HE wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE HE FORMED THE EARTH. HE knows who will be Faithful and who will fall away, before HE wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE. The old argument between Calvinist and Armenians is it Predestination OR Freedom to CHOOSE WHO YOU WILL SERVE, and few have ever realized that the TRUTH is not in those two opposite choices. The THIRD CHOICE is HE CHOSE US before HE formed the WORLD, because HE KNEW who would CHOOSE HIM without falling away. IT IS BOTH, and I am convinced that is the truth.

SALVATION IS IN THAT MOMENT OF TIME WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED, because HE knows every decision we will make before HE formed the WORLD. IT IS A DONE DEAL, before we made those DECISIONS, therefore the SAVED are those who genuinely CHOOSE to BELIEVE.

AFTER WE ARE SAVED, then ALL of the Decisions about being SANCTIFIED WILL be made.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

If we are Truly Born Again:
Why DO WE WANT TO BE SANCTIFIED?
Because we are GOD's Children, and we WANT to be like our Heavenly Daddy.
If we Please Him, some day HE will reward good behavior,
and SALVATION IS NOT A REWARD, IT IS A FREE GIFT.
If we Do No Please Him, HE will give us a good spanking.

So all you Armenians and Calvinist, go ahead and throw your STONES,
But that is what the HOLY SPIRIT has put on my heart to BELIEVE.

Salvation is at the moment we obey the Gospel.

It continues as long as we continue in the faith.

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23

JPT

sometimes I wonder, if God is solvereign, why does God not unveil everyone's eyes to the truth?

Most people will disagree with you, most Christian's I've met don't believe in God's predestination or His elect.

Most believe we are saved by faith in Christ, where we choose to believe in Him to receive salvation.

It comes down to two views, either we are saved by our obedience and faith or God saves us because He chose us before He created the world.

You can use the Bible to support both views, this question has been argued for centuries and we are no closer to a consensus.

I think your view is in line with Calvin's. he also believed in predestination. This question has divided the Church and it will continue to divide because you can use the Bible to argue both views.

We obey the Gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16).

Those who continue in the faith demonstrate that their faith was firmly rooted and established in Christ from the beginning. Those who do not continue demonstrate otherwise.

To believe in vain = did not truly believe. It means this belief failed to take root and become firmly established, which explains why the person did not hold fast to the word which Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

If they have not held fast that word which Paul preached, then they demonstrate that they believed in vain/without cause or without effect, to no purpose.

In Colossians 1:23, the word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away? They believed in vain.

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be saved when in fact they may not?

Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers.

SAD, but it is true!

But you man want to reconsider after reading these verses:


Matthew 24:31 (HCSB)
31 He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Taking about the BEAST of Revelation:


Revelation 13:8-9 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 20:14-15 (HCSB)
14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Romans 8:27-30 (HCSB)
27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,
6 to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.
7 We have redemption in Him through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8 that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

Ephesians 1:11-12 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.


You see, I am foolish ENOUGH to Believe all of the Bible was inspired by GOD HIMSELF, and I BELIEVE IT?

So what are you foolish enough to Believe, . . . . . . Evolution?


Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

John5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Reading this has made my day, thank you so much for putting it together so well.

I'm am surprised at the number of people here who deny these scriptures and hold to the notion that one is saved if they believe, obey and have faith. The above scriptures that we do all of those things because He first chose to save us and regenerate us to conform to the image of His Son.

The greatest joy in the life of a Christian is knowing that we 100% saved without any doubt, so we don't have any fear of losing our salvation due to some sins we may commit in the future. He has forgiven all our past, present and future sins, what an amazing blessing that is. It's truly liberating and it fills the believer with joy.

I feel pity for those who strive in works based salvation, belief systems. They can't find reassurance or joy, they are constantly worried that they might not make it or that they might lose their salvation.

that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7


Those who have faith in Christ Jesus, are in Christ, whereby they are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

As long as you are “in Christ” you have eternal life.


Those who do not remain or abide in Christ, no longer have eternal life.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6



JPT

My guess is you did not thoroughly read my origininal post on this subject. I said "GOD choose those He Predestined, BECAUSE He knew before the foundation of the WORLD, who would CHOOSE HIM, and LOVE HIM Forever." It is BOTH Predestination, and FREEDOM OF CHOICE, that I BELIEVE IS THE TRUTH, NOT ONE or THE OTHER.

Now I will go a Step Further. I believe HE in HIS Omnipresence, IS not LIMITED to just SPACE, but also TIME IT SELF. He maybe Omnipresent in all of Space at the SAME TIME, AND ALL OF TIME AT THE SAME TIME. GOD IS NOT a being trapped in TIME, HE IS THE CREATOR of TIME as we KNOW IT, and the Creator of Space. If He exists OUT SIDE of TIME as we KNOW IT, then HE CAN potentially BE PRESENT AT EVERY CONVERSION THAT HAS HAPPEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME AND ON INTO THE FUTURE, and therefore . Therefore, HE CAN DECLARE THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY THERE, and HE CAN Put our NAMES in the Book of Life, before HE formed the World, BECAUSE HE IS AT EVERY CONVERSION.

NOW if you can wrap your head around that, you may REALIZE that GOD IS MUCH, MUCH BIGGER than you used to THINK HE WAS. Now that is speculation, BUT IT IS VERY PLAUSIBLE TOO.

Does anyone here think that the Disciples of Jesus Christ thought they must wait for there salvation or were they already saved. Our daily practical sanctification is each individual working out his salvation with fear and trembling; We are already save at our "New Heavenly Birth" but we need to grow and mature in Christ.
You cannot work your way to heaven; "Not By Works"

Zechariah4:6
'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty."

How about Moses and the Israelite's; did God provide their way of escape at the time of their need, of course He did.
The Prophet Jonah's Prayer, "Salvation is of the Lord" it took a big fish to save him.
The thief on the cross; I will see you in paradise "Today."

John5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

2Corinthians6:2
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, "now is the day of salvation."

that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7

Those who do not remain or abide in Christ, no longer have eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6