What must I do to be saved
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Mt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Lu 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
God is not willing that any should be lost but that all should be saved. It is the hardness of men's hearts that leads to their destruction.
Go back to Genesis and see that when Adam fell in the garden one of the things that changed in addition to sin was Adam received the knowledge of good and evil. Adam knew the difference between good and evil. So do men today. Men have the ability to choose and the obligation to choose.
The matter now settles on which choice did you make?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Lu 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
God is not willing that any should be lost but that all should be saved. It is the hardness of men's hearts that leads to their destruction.
Go back to Genesis and see that when Adam fell in the garden one of the things that changed in addition to sin was Adam received the knowledge of good and evil. Adam knew the difference between good and evil. So do men today. Men have the ability to choose and the obligation to choose.
The matter now settles on which choice did you make?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
T
God allow many people to reject the gospel, and I think I can guess at the reason why that might be the case (either that or the Holy Spirit put together the scriptures in me and opened my eyes to this possible reason why)
Abraham's praying for the nation, while one knee on ashes, praying "if there is still one righteous person among the nation, may that nation be spared", starting from 50, and dwindled down to one
and, God will leave the 99 for that one lost sheep
in the sense that, for the sake of that one lost sheep (one more elect) if the nation will eventually physically give birth to one of God's elect, God will allow that nation to continue
however, Noah's flood most likely demonstrate how merciful God is to many future offspring, in the sense that the generation have grown so wicked that God have probably foresaw that the whole world will never give birth to elects. No elects will be produced, so God spared many unborn babies from the worst fate.
in short, will at least one of God's elect come from that nation in question?
if yes, that nation will last till the inevitable future for the answer to that question becomes "no"
if no, God will wipe out that nation, to be merciful to many unborn babies
Abraham's praying for the nation, while one knee on ashes, praying "if there is still one righteous person among the nation, may that nation be spared", starting from 50, and dwindled down to one
and, God will leave the 99 for that one lost sheep
in the sense that, for the sake of that one lost sheep (one more elect) if the nation will eventually physically give birth to one of God's elect, God will allow that nation to continue
however, Noah's flood most likely demonstrate how merciful God is to many future offspring, in the sense that the generation have grown so wicked that God have probably foresaw that the whole world will never give birth to elects. No elects will be produced, so God spared many unborn babies from the worst fate.
in short, will at least one of God's elect come from that nation in question?
if yes, that nation will last till the inevitable future for the answer to that question becomes "no"
if no, God will wipe out that nation, to be merciful to many unborn babies
Hi Roger,
I beg to differ, there are just too many scriptures which teach that God is the One who chooses who will be saved.
None seek after the Lord, all have turned away. The natural man cannot receive spiritual things, they are foolishness to him.
We were born dead in or sins and trespasses, a dead person cannot chose to believe.
One could write a book on the topic, there are so many clear scripture teachings which support election and predestination.
There have been many wise and learned men over the last 5 centuries, who were highly qualified Bible theologians claiming that predestination is sound biblical doctrine. there have been others who argued against it but I believe there's more evidence to support it than there is against it.
It is very important to get it right, as it effects our standing with God. We can easily get it wrong and that leads to a wrong response to our obligation before the Lord.
I beg to differ, there are just too many scriptures which teach that God is the One who chooses who will be saved.
None seek after the Lord, all have turned away. The natural man cannot receive spiritual things, they are foolishness to him.
We were born dead in or sins and trespasses, a dead person cannot chose to believe.
One could write a book on the topic, there are so many clear scripture teachings which support election and predestination.
There have been many wise and learned men over the last 5 centuries, who were highly qualified Bible theologians claiming that predestination is sound biblical doctrine. there have been others who argued against it but I believe there's more evidence to support it than there is against it.
It is very important to get it right, as it effects our standing with God. We can easily get it wrong and that leads to a wrong response to our obligation before the Lord.
I like this post So much I want to be able to reference it. That's why I'm posting.
There are progressions all through the Bible, and even in secular life.
Virtually no one becomes a junkie and shoot heroin with dirty needles to start their drug addiction. They start with alcohol, then pot, then maybe prescription pills, then meth, then coke, and finally, if they survived all that, they move to heroin, and ultimately die.
There are progressions all through the Bible, and even in secular life.
Virtually no one becomes a junkie and shoot heroin with dirty needles to start their drug addiction. They start with alcohol, then pot, then maybe prescription pills, then meth, then coke, and finally, if they survived all that, they move to heroin, and ultimately die.
Do you realize when you take the position that God chooses who will be saved, you are also taking the position that God also "chooses" who will not be saved?
So let's take your position a step further …
It is now judgment day and the unbeliever is standing before God to give an account.
He (or she) can tell God "Well God, You did not choose me and I did exactly as You "willed" for me in my life. Therefore, you cannot consign me to the lake of fire because I did Your "will" for me in my life."
Romans 1:18-20 states that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.
But you give the unbeliever and excuse for his/her behavior.
So let's take your position a step further …
It is now judgment day and the unbeliever is standing before God to give an account.
He (or she) can tell God "Well God, You did not choose me and I did exactly as You "willed" for me in my life. Therefore, you cannot consign me to the lake of fire because I did Your "will" for me in my life."
Romans 1:18-20 states that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.
But you give the unbeliever and excuse for his/her behavior.
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T
Based on Noah's flood, Abraham's Prayer for Sodom (Genesis 18), and that God will leave the 99 for that one lost sheep.
Those Bible reference lead me to conclude that God will let the nation continue based on the potential possibility of at least one of God's elect come from that nation in question.
If none of God's elect will come from that nation in question, God will wipe out that nation, to be merciful to many unborn babies.
Those Bible reference lead me to conclude that God will let the nation continue based on the potential possibility of at least one of God's elect come from that nation in question.
If none of God's elect will come from that nation in question, God will wipe out that nation, to be merciful to many unborn babies.
I can see why your not taking a firm position on free will vs predestination. I just read those verses, they are quite controversial and they can be taken in different ways depending on your predisposition.
We have all formed a certain world view, which can be a divisive thing. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree
We have all formed a certain world view, which can be a divisive thing. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree
Seem to me before foundation of the world, God plan to create man, His plan is not to put them to hell, His plan is to make them happy, consistence with His nature of love.
Loving person not plan bad think to His creator. But God is also Just, so yes He chose who go to hell, but why, there is a reason why God chose a particular man go to hell. The reason is if that man not accept Him.
Than why God say I chose you before the foundation of the world.
Seem to me, it is because before the foundation of the world, His plan is to put every body in heaven, this is the original plan.
Say I have 2 children, I love them, and my original plan is to give both of them a good business and a nice house. But The older refuse, so be it. The younger accept my plan, so I tell to the younger, welcome, this is your house and business I prepare for you before you born.
It doesn't mean I am not prepare a house and business to the older. I chose to give to the younger because the younger accept it. If the older accept it, I will also chose him to receive a house and business.
God invite every body to be save
The invitation say
Whosoever believe in Him will be save.
Or whosoever believe in Him will be chosen to be save.
Whosoever, mean no exceptions but there is requirement
The requirement is believe in Him
Loving person not plan bad think to His creator. But God is also Just, so yes He chose who go to hell, but why, there is a reason why God chose a particular man go to hell. The reason is if that man not accept Him.
Than why God say I chose you before the foundation of the world.
Seem to me, it is because before the foundation of the world, His plan is to put every body in heaven, this is the original plan.
Say I have 2 children, I love them, and my original plan is to give both of them a good business and a nice house. But The older refuse, so be it. The younger accept my plan, so I tell to the younger, welcome, this is your house and business I prepare for you before you born.
It doesn't mean I am not prepare a house and business to the older. I chose to give to the younger because the younger accept it. If the older accept it, I will also chose him to receive a house and business.
God invite every body to be save
The invitation say
Whosoever believe in Him will be save.
Or whosoever believe in Him will be chosen to be save.
Whosoever, mean no exceptions but there is requirement
The requirement is believe in Him
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True. Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
There’s another verse that says hell has enlarged herself:
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure
satan absolutely hates mankind and satan is not satisfied unless he brings as many men and women with him as he can lay hold of.
Good analogy.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
There’s another verse that says hell has enlarged herself:
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure
satan absolutely hates mankind and satan is not satisfied unless he brings as many men and women with him as he can lay hold of.
Good analogy.
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