Not By Works

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TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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stonesoffire said:
Am in agreement that what Jesus spoke was addressing our heart, not our hands...works.
I believe He said those words with a smile...not stern.
When we realize His love...how magnificent it is to us personally...our heart responds to Him...in many ways. If He speaks then...He moves freely through our actions.

This about the oil was a revelation to me.. The best oil is of the olive that is plump and full. It drips oil at the slightest touch. Its not His desire to crush the olive.

Same scenario with the hammer and the rock.
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Nice to see you back Stonesoffire, I pray today finds you well and happy in Jesus our Lord...:)
 
J

justpassinthrough

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TruthTalk said:
You want to add "keep my commandments" as a condition for our salvation. The Pharisee's did the same thing.

Our continued sanctification applies to this verse, you are trying to add rules and regulations to God's gift and that is wrong.

1John3:5
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. "And his commands are not burdensome."
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In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10




JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

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BillG said:
I thought I asked you, but maybe I didn't.

What commandments are we meant to keep?
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The ones He has put in your mind, and writes on your heart.


37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40


again


33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:33-34





JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

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TruthTalk said:
You do complicate the gospel - "My command is this: Love each other"

You are trying to teach a "works gospel" and you are wrong.

John15:12
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
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Please point out in any of my post's where I have taught a works Gospel.



Maybe this one?



We were saved, which is to say, born again, or regenerated, by grace through faith.


  • He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior


4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7


This refers to our initial salvation, when we were born again, not because of any works of righteousness we did, to earn our salvation, but because He loved us, and because of His merciful kindness.



At this point, the slate is wiped clean, in which our sins are forgiven, and we are cleansed of all unrighteousness, being justified before God as righteousness.


We have been given a new nature, which is compatible to be filled with the Holy Spirit, who empowers our new divine nature to do what we could not do before: Practice righteousness.



Those who have been born again, and have received the Holy Spirit, have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness.



It's now up to us to either walk according to the Spirit, or according to the flesh.


Before we were regenerated, or born again, we did not have the capacity to live our lives according to the Spirit, and practice righteousness, because we were slaves of sin, not having the ability to live in dominion over sin.


We now have the power, and the right to becomes sons of God.


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12




JPT
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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BillG said:
Stone's precious lady.

Hello hello and hello.
I was thinking a couple of days ago that I hadn't seen you and prayed you would come back.

You are now 2 of 3.

Great to see you at see you sister
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Thank you Bill. Is great to be back with a new fresh breath of heaven. :)
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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justpassinthrough said:
Please point out in any of my post's where I have taught a works Gospel.



Maybe this one?



We were saved, which is to say, born again, or regenerated, by grace through faith.


  • He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior


4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7


This refers to our initial salvation, when we were born again, not because of any works of righteousness we did, to earn our salvation, but because He loved us, and because of His merciful kindness.



At this point, the slate is wiped clean, in which our sins are forgiven, and we are cleansed of all unrighteousness, being justified before God as righteousness.


We have been given a new nature, which is compatible to be filled with the Holy Spirit, who empowers our new divine nature to do what we could not do before: Practice righteousness.



Those who have been born again, and have received the Holy Spirit, have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness.



It's now up to us to either walk according to the Spirit, or according to the flesh.


Before we were regenerated, or born again, we did not have the capacity to live our lives according to the Spirit, and practice righteousness, because we were slaves of sin, not having the ability to live in dominion over sin.


We now have the power, and the right to becomes sons of God.


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12




JPT
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Okay and thank you for pointing out my mistake.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Budman said:
The best way predestination was explained to me was; Before the foundation of the world, God predestined/elected to save anyone who will place their faith in Jesus Christ alone. In that same vein, He predestined/elected to damn anyone who will reject the free gift of salvation through Jesus.

It makes more sense than God simply choosing people to be saved or damned against their will.
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Yes, and God is omniscient so since He knows all things from the beginning, from his perspective, it’s already settled. There are no surprises with God.
 
J

justpassinthrough

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TruthTalk said:
No doubt works plays a part in your gospel
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Please point out where the work "works" appears in this post.


The only way we are saved is by obedience.


  • on those who do not obey the gospel

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9



Do you believe those who are "punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord", are saved?




JPT
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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TruthTalk said:
So you do not see "obedience" as being a work, okay I'm done thanks for the conversation.
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The obedience that saves is the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which “follow” and are produced “out of” faith.
 
T

theanointedsinner

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in John 6, people have asked Jesus, what is the work that we must do, and Jesus replied, "believe", and they asked "what signs will you show us" which demonstrates that work in a sense is accomplished by faith, and when Jesus command obedience, obedience is to be applied.

No one can come to Jesus unless God draws him (John 6:44)

and "the spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing"

so it's works, not of legalism, but as a result of God's power to help you, as you abide in Jesus (John 15)
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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mailmandan said:
The obedience that saves is the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which “follow” and are produced “out of” faith.
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Obedience does not save, are you saying acts of obedience are not deeds of works?
Please explain.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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mailmandan said:
The obedience that saves is the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which “follow” and are produced “out of” faith.
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This passage is talking about faith after you are saved and yet we were dead in our trespasses and sins when God saved us, how could we be obedient to anything if we were dead, until the Holy Spirit quickened our spirit.

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" we must be saved first.

Romans10:16
But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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mailmandan said:
The obedience that saves is the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which “follow” and are produced “out of” faith.
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Hi Mailman, I'm willing to listen and learn, but where does obedience apply to our salvation when Jesus tells us to believe.

John6:28,29
28) Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29) Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”…
 
VCO

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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justpassinthrough said:
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:15


JPT
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John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

John 14:15 (ASV)
15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.

John 14:15 (NASB)
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 14:15 (CSBBible)
15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands.

John 14:15 (ESV)
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 14:15 (NRSV)
15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 14:15 (NCV)
15 “If you love me, you will obey my commands.

John 14:15 (NIV)
15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:15 (GWT)
15 “If you love me, you will obey my commandments.

John 14:15 (NJB)
15 If you love me you will keep my commandments.


I am not being funny, nor sarcastic. I wanted you to see HOW MANY VERSIONS that I have open in my WORDsearch 10 (13 open, 10 had YOU WILL), had that phrase YOU WILL, ahead of KEEP or OBEY. I know for a fact that the KJV, is a Paraphrase of Older English Translations, not a literal TRANSLATION from the original language versions. Their Translation Team admitted it in their 1611 Original PREFACE. "Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one,", which is quote from the 1611 Original PREFACE, which proves that their translation team was making the KJV, from 5 earlier English Version, cross referencing it with the LATIN Translation, to come up with the KJV. That is a Paraphrase, no matter how you cut it. If you want to check it out for yourself, hear is the Link. http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm

Any how with so many the YOU WILL ahead of Keep or Obey, it clearly points out We are SAVED when we FIRST LOVED the LORD, and THEN AFTER THAT we will KEEP or OBEY. It is NOT part of SALVATION, it is Part of our LOVE for the LORD and our Brethren, that spawns from GOD's LOVE that was poured into our HEARTS, the MOMENT of genuine conversion.

So I have to disagree with you, that it is NOT part SALVATION, but rather PART OF LOVE, which COMES after we are genuinely BORN AGAIN.

I have all ready address this FALSE DOCTRINE, of My Works must count for part of my Salvation? So I will not go into that much more.

IF YOU LOVE ME, which comes first in fact the moment saving faith came into your heart, THEN YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, which happens WAY after you are SAVED.

Some scriptures only require simple LOGIC.

 
T

theanointedsinner

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as an illustration, what must a physical baby do to be physically born? nothing, the decision is up to parents, in the same way. We were dead in trespasses and sin, if a blind guide leads a blind guide, both will fall into a pit, and Jesus must draw us closer to him.
 
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