Obedience, Oh No!

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JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#1
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#1
When we come to the Lord we are transformed into a new creature. We go from having been children of disobedience to being children of obedience.

The commandments ad laws we obey are now natural to us, however many seem to be under the misconception
that we are obeying or think we are obeying te over 600 laws in the books of Moses, Not so! Jesus has taught us the way the truth and the life in Himself, but so many miss the understanding.

Yes the law is yet in effect for us all, those who are sinners and those who are saved by grace.

Jesus teaches the most important principles of the law and know it to actually apply it is to always include faith, justice and mercy.

We know this already in our hearts, because of our being new creatures, but you may now also read the laws and see immediately which our Lord has declared are still in effect, for He does teach not to teach against the law. It is a pity many think obedience is being under the more than 600 laws in Moses, and are to undisciplined by love to understand those many laws that do fall under the two great laws of Love

When people who claim to be under mercy and do not know the above they are simply saying Jesus was either kidding orworse yet,lying, when He teaches the law is not abolish or destroyed by Him but completed. Learn this and be free indeed..
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#2
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#2
Perhaps a good study of the Letter to the Ephesians may help some..
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#3
#3
.......riiiiight:rolleyes:

for the record

the silly title implications paired with the far less than accurate statements is why i gave the dislike

1 john 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.



james 2 :10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


galatians 2 16- Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.



2 corinthians 5 21
21- For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

romans 5 19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#4
Dec 9, 2011
14,142
1,806
113
#4
JaumeJ said:
When we come to the Lord we are transformed into a new creature. We go from having been children of disobedience to being children of obedience.

The commandments ad laws we obey are now natural to us, however many seem to be under the misconception
that we are obeying or think we are obeying te over 600 laws in the books of Moses, Not so! Jesus has taught us the way the truth and the life in Himself, but so many miss the understanding.

Yes the law is yet in effect for us all, those who are sinners and those who are saved by grace.

Jesus teaches the most important principles of the law and know it to actually apply it is to always include faith, justice and mercy.

We know this already in our hearts, because of our being new creatures, but you may now also read the laws and see immediately which our Lord has declared are still in effect, for He does teach not to teach against the law. It is a pity many think obedience is being under the more than 600 laws in Moses, and are to undisciplined by love to understand those many laws that do fall under the two great laws of Love

When people who claim to be under mercy and do not know the above they are simply saying Jesus was either kidding orworse yet,lying, when He teaches the law is not abolish or destroyed by Him but completed. Learn this and be free indeed..
Click to expand...
hello brother Jaumej
Yes the law is yet in effect for us all, those who are sinners and those who are saved by grace.
Click to expand...
I disagree with this,I am no longer under the law.I am under grace,If I were under the law I would have to be perfect In my own strength and would come short of the glory of GOD.

we can't be under law and grace at the same time.

When people who claim to be under mercy and do not know the above they are simply saying Jesus was either kidding or worse yet,lying, when He teaches the law is not abolish or destroyed by Him but completed. Learn this and be free indeed
Click to expand...
The rich young ruler looking at the outward man of JESUS asked JESUS good master what must I do to Inherit eternal life and JESUS replied why do you call me good, their Is only one that Is good and that Is GOD.

In other words why did the rich young ruler look at JESUS and think of a regular priest under law Instead of realizing the Inside of JESUS Is GOD and since he chose to look at JESUS as a man Instead of GOD in CHRIST,JESUS directed him back to the law telling him you know the ten commandments and we know that no man would be able to fulfill the law perfectly.

Give GOD ALL the credit.
Saying that we should keep the law and be under grace at the same time Is saying that JESUS did It ALL and I helped.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#5
#5
Every time I read one of these post about the Law and the necessity of keeping it, my first thought is how deceiving the poster is. By posting such things, the poster is implying that he/she keeps the Law. They also imply that those who do not are either lost or at least less holy than they are.
Reminds me of the Pharisees that Jesus had to deal with daily.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#6
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#6
seed_time_harvest said:
hello brother Jaumej


I disagree with this,I am no longer under the law.I am under grace,If I were under the law I would have to be perfect In my own strength and would come short of the glory of GOD.

we can't be under law and grace at the same time.



The rich young ruler looking at the outward man of JESUS asked JESUS good master what must I do to Inherit eternal life and JESUS replied why do you call me good, their Is only one that Is good and that Is GOD.

In other words why did the rich young ruler look at JESUS and think of a regular priest under law Instead of realizing the Inside of JESUS Is GOD and since he chose to look at JESUS as a man Instead of GOD in CHRIST,JESUS directed him back to the law telling him you know the ten commandments and we know that no man would be able to fulfill the law perfectly.

Give GOD ALL the credit.
Saying that we should keep the law and be under grace at the same time Is saying that JESUS did It ALL and I helped.
Click to expand...
All is according to the teaching of Jesus Christ and the Light Heshines on this for you and for me.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#7
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#7
SpoonJuly said:
Every time I read one of these post about the Law and the necessity of keeping it, my first thought is how deceiving the poster is. By posting such things, the poster is implying that he/she keeps the Law. They also imply that those who do not are either lost or at least less holy than they are.
Reminds me of the Pharisees that Jesus had to deal with daily.
Click to expand...

This post stresses learning from Jesus Christ, and I do not believe I have derived any of my post from me......it is from Him.....please read i with this in mind.
 
OneFaith

OneFaith

Senior Member
#8
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#8
JaumeJ said:
When we come to the Lord we are transformed into a new creature. We go from having been children of disobedience to being children of obedience.

The commandments ad laws we obey are now natural to us, however many seem to be under the misconception
that we are obeying or think we are obeying te over 600 laws in the books of Moses, Not so! Jesus has taught us the way the truth and the life in Himself, but so many miss the understanding.

Yes the law is yet in effect for us all, those who are sinners and those who are saved by grace.

Jesus teaches the most important principles of the law and know it to actually apply it is to always include faith, justice and mercy.

We know this already in our hearts, because of our being new creatures, but you may now also read the laws and see immediately which our Lord has declared are still in effect, for He does teach not to teach against the law. It is a pity many think obedience is being under the more than 600 laws in Moses, and are to undisciplined by love to understand those many laws that do fall under the two great laws of Love

When people who claim to be under mercy and do not know the above they are simply saying Jesus was either kidding orworse yet,lying, when He teaches the law is not abolish or destroyed by Him but completed. Learn this and be free indeed..
Click to expand...
"Under Moses" means to obey God's laws physically. That way has been nailed to the cross forevermore (amen). But all of God's laws (as you say 600+) are still to be obeyed even today spiritually. Jesus says loving (which is spiritual not phyical) God and your neighbor fulfills (automatically causes you to obey) all the laws that the Prophets spoke of. All of God's laws are still in effect, and will always be, for example, God's law to not murder will not ever be not in effect. If you love God and your neighbor you will not in that moment murder your neighbor. If you love God and your neighbor you will return his donkey (or car) if you see it wander off (or roll away).

So yes, love automatically fulfills all the laws of God- which still must be obeyed today spiritually under the authority of Christ instead of physically under Moses. How do you spiritually obey God's law not to murder? By not hating your brother in the first place. Jesus (our only authority today- that leaves no authority for Moses) said that if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder. Because that is disobeying God's law not to murder spiritually, in your heart.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#9
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#9
So many times I have posted the following, but the new formatted website has not had it.

Jesus has fulfilled the law but has not destroyed it.

We many no longer make sacrifices for sins of animals, for there is now but One, Jesus Christ, those laws are no longer.

We no longer need the Levitical laws of priesthood, for Jesus Christ is our High Priest and we are made priests by His Blood. No laws of Priesthood.

The laws of governing Israel are no longer in state because the Israel of God is not yet with us, and the former has been dissolved, there is not government on this earth headed by God.

The Temple laws and rituals are now impossible for we are the living stones of the Temple with Jesus Christ as the Head and the Cornerstone.. He will come back to rebuild His Temple but until then we are scattered awaiting to be gathered together in New Jerusalem.

All the law that falls under the two greet laws are yet with us, though we know them by our new man, for we are new creatures in Christ.

If anyone with the conscience given by Jesus Christ studies the written laws it is obvious which are yet in effect. No man need draw them all out for you.

Some of the laws are prophecy, while all are a guide to morality in the sight of our Father.

No one is saved by obedience, but they can be lost by deliberate disobedience for that is the definition of sin.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ,Yeshua.
 
OneFaith

OneFaith

Senior Member
#10
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#10
JaumeJ said:
So many times I have posted the following, but the new formatted website has not had it.

Jesus has fulfilled the law but has not destroyed it.

We many no longer make sacrifices for sins of animals, for there is now but One, Jesus Christ, those laws are no longer.

We no longer need the Levitical laws of priesthood, for Jesus Christ is our High Priest and we are made priests by His Blood. No laws of Priesthood.

The laws of governing Israel are no longer in state because the Israel of God is not yet with us, and the former has been dissolved, there is not government on this earth headed by God.

The Temple laws and rituals are now impossible for we are the living stones of the Temple with Jesus Christ as the Head and the Cornerstone.. He will come back to rebuild His Temple but until then we are scattered awaiting to be gathered together in New Jerusalem.

All the law that falls under the two greet laws are yet with us, though we know them by our new man, for we are new creatures in Christ.

If anyone with the conscience given by Jesus Christ studies the written laws it is obvious which are yet in effect. No man need draw them all out for you.

Some of the laws are prophecy, while all are a guide to morality in the sight of our Father.

No one is saved by obedience, but they can be lost by deliberate disobedience for that is the definition of sin.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ,Yeshua.
Click to expand...
It's not that the law of sacrifice for sin was taken away, that law still stands today. However, physical animals (which never atoned for sin anyways, but only postponed sin till the cross) are no longer sacrificed because we no longer obey God's laws physically. Yet that law still must be obeyed spiritually- and it is, by the sacrifice of the spiritually perfect Lamb (of God). You said it perfectly "Jesus has fulfilled the law, not destroyed it." The confusion comes in because 'the law' doesn't just mean 'God's law' but 'God's law once obeyed physically under the authority of Moses'.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
#11
SpoonJuly said:
Every time I read one of these post about the Law and the necessity of keeping it, my first thought is how deceiving the poster is. By posting such things, the poster is implying that he/she keeps the Law. They also imply that those who do not are either lost or at least less holy than they are.
Reminds me of the Pharisees that Jesus had to deal with daily.
Click to expand...
Amen, As Moses commanded, and paul re-afirmed, the reality is, There was only one man who kept the law and that was christ, Because what was required?

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

by this just requirment, not a person who is on this earth can say they have kept the law.

The aw was not given to show HOW to be obedient, it was given to CONDEMN the disobedient (show us our sin) and LEAD us to christ.

sadly, the law appears to not have finished its purpose in some people.

We do not became obedient by following the law. We become obedient by following Love and seeking the things of the spirit (love of others) of which the law can in no way help. .as Jesus proved in his sermon on the mount.

People who follow the law of love as I call it, will by nature not be found to be breaking the law of god given by moses. but we do it Gods way, Not mans way (by attempting to follow the rules)
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#12
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#12
Obedience is hearkening to the voice of Jesus. Those who exalt Moses above Jesus, the letter above the spirit, are lawless.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#13
#13
eternally-gratefull said:
The aw was not given to show HOW to be obedient
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"16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness"-2 Timothy 3:16

Just because love is how we fulfill the commandments of God doesn't mean the law was not given to show how to be obedient.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
#14
OneFaith said:
It's not that the law of sacrifice for sin was taken away, that law still stands today. However, physical animals (which never atoned for sin anyways, but only postponed sin till the cross) are no longer sacrificed because we no longer obey God's laws physically. Yet that law still must be obeyed spiritually- and it is, by the sacrifice of the spiritually perfect Lamb (of God). You said it perfectly "Jesus has fulfilled the law, not destroyed it." The confusion comes in because 'the law' doesn't just mean 'God's law' but 'God's law once obeyed physically under the authority of Moses'.
Click to expand...
You can not obey the law even if you tried, You can not even follow the very first command 24/7, and anyone who thinks they can are in more trouble than I can help them with. '

now take that, And love your enemy. How many of us do this 24/7?

if we can not even keep these two commands, How can we claim we keep the law?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#15
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
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#15
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Obedience is hearkening to the voice of Jesus. Those who exalt Moses above Jesus, the letter above the spirit, are lawless.
Click to expand...
I would even say that those who place Moses at the same level as Jesus, the letter at the same level as the spirit, are lawless.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#16
#16
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I would even say that those who place Moses at the same level as Jesus, the letter at the same level as the spirit, are lawless.
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"1My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism."-James 2:1

Is James teaching the letter of the law or the Spirit of the law? How can we tell?

Was James lawless?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#17
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#17
How is it I hve illicited such negativity when it comes to the mention of obeying Jesus Christ?

Could it bedue to unbelief within the participants?

I posted we are saved by grace and only that, yetbecaue THE WORD OBEDIENCE IS USED SOME BALK LOUDLY.

You know disobedience is akin to witchcraft to our Father. He ahs even declared He prefers obedience to sacrifice.

If this is not clear, then perhaps if I say weshould obey Jesus Christ and His teaching on the subject. If this is not good enough for some then Jesus is not good enough for them.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#18
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#18
Ralph- said:
"1My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism."-James 2:1

Is James teaching the letter of the law or the Spirit of the law? How can we tell?

Was James lawless?
Click to expand...
James was teaching the spirit because he said we will be judged by the law of liberty. He used the law as a means of admonishment, which is a perfectly acceptable and lawful use of the law.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#19
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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#19
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Obedience is hearkening to the voice of Jesus. Those who exalt Moses above Jesus, the letter above the spirit, are lawless.
Click to expand...
But Jesus is the Word which became Flesh, Yes? And it was Him who commanded His People to Love their neighbor. It was Him who commanded we should not Covet, not Moses. If I repent from my old ways and turn to Him, shall I not listen to all His Word's?

Was it not Him who instructed Isaiah in the "Examples that were written for our admonition". In the God Inspired scriptures written for "reproof" for "Doctrine" for "instruction in Righteousness"?


Is. 58:
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD (The Word which became Flesh in the person of Jesus) hath spoken it.

Jesus quoted Isaiah all the time. Did He not trust in all his word's? How can I honor the Christ by attributing His Word's to Moses? How is listening to ALL of the Word's of the Christ, exalting Moses above Jesus?

As we talking about the same Jesus here?
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#20
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#20
Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf. Paul said that the law was our Tutor to lead us to Christ. If you are born again the spirit of Christ resides in you forever We are Sons of God and are being formed into his likeness. This is the heart of the great mystery in the Gospel given to Paul that could only be revealed after Pentecost.
 
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