Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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I think that verse actually says, "he who endures tot he end shall be saved".
I was trying to explain the difference between genuine Christians and false professors. I know David committed adultery before he was saved, then he was very remorseful and he never committed any more serious sins. I'm not sure about when Abraham committed his, before or after but I'm almost certain that it was before.
I don't believe that a true Christian who has the Holy Spirit indwelling them is capable of committing adultery or any other serious sin.
False.......false and again I say false........WOW
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes I know. so they will not be alive until the end, and be saved (physically) but they were already saved (eternally) soo they could never lose that. .

That is the point, endure, try to stay alive for those 3.5 years no matter how hellish it is, If you enduyre, you will be saved and witness the greatest event this world has ever seen.

Jesus was giving hope to those alive at that time, to endure, not give up. which would be so easy to do.

eternal salvation is not the context or in view in those words.
HAHAHH yep.....POST TRIBULATION INGATHERING referenced above ;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That's because you think that enduring to the end is a damnable work of the flesh.
I think enduring to the end is a wonderful work of God.
Sounds a little bit too much like Ralph......and EG is right the context is enduring the tribulation and physical preservation.....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Its pretty simple. No OSAS/ES. We must continually watch, lest we fall.

That has been my point for months. Thank you for clearifying my point.

. . .

That may be somewhat of a FACT only for you, but will such a faith SAVE; BUT WE TRUST IN JESUS TO BE WITH US FOREVER and bring our Faith to COMPLETION.


Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 5:10-11 (NCV)
10 And after you suffer for a short time, God, who gives all grace, will make everything right. He will make you strong and support you and keep you from falling. He called you to share in his glory in Christ, a glory that will continue forever.
11 All power is his forever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24-25 (NIV)
24 To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy--
25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (NIV)
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


So, you are still ROBBING GOD OF THE GLORY for KEEPING YOU FROM STUMBLING. Good Luck with KEEPING YOURSELF FROM FALLING, you are going to need it.

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I think that verse actually says, "he who endures tot he end shall be saved".
I was trying to explain the difference between genuine Christians and false professors.
I know David committed adultery before he was saved, then he was very remorseful and he never committed any more serious sins. I'm not sure about when Abraham committed his, before or after but I'm almost certain that it was before.
I don't believe that a true Christian who has the Holy Spirit indwelling them is capable of committing adultery or any other serious sin.
The Lord commissions Samuel to anoint David King over Israel 1Samuel16:1-13

And you think King David or Abraham wasn't "Saved" before they committed adultery, but, "then he was very remorseful" and then became saved? So that supports your belief that a Christian cannot commit "any other "serious" sin" All sin is very serious by the way.

Are you sure about this, because it is God who judges a man's salvation, not you or I.
Psalm89:20,21
20) I have found David my servant;
with my sacred oil I have anointed him.
21) My hand will sustain him;
surely my arm will strengthen him.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Question 1- No Yeshua(Jesus) was the sacrifice for intentional sin since there was not a instructed sacrifice in the Torah,
and there is no Temple. we are not supposed to do something different just to make it work.

Question 2- There is NO command in the Torah for putting someone to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.
we are commanded to rest on the Sabbath, The Pharisees made there own version of the "Law" Just like other religions.
The law required those who violate the Sabbath to be put to death.


Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15


again


32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lordcommanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36


they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.

all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.


This is not some “made up religion” but the law.


Do you obey this?



JPT
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
The law required those who violate the Sabbath to be put to death.


Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15


again


32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lordcommanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36


they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.

all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.


This is not some “made up religion” but the law.


Do you obey this?



JPT
I just do what God says and rest on the Sabbath. The Man gathering sticks was breaking the Sabbath. God did not go against His Word. So He had the man put to death. I bet it was a long time before someone did that again.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I just do what God says and rest on the Sabbath. The Man gathering sticks was breaking the Sabbath. God did not go against His Word. So He had the man put to death. I bet it was a long time before someone did that again.

Do you obey this command.


The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:10



JPT
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Sounds a little bit too much like Ralph......and EG is right the context is enduring the tribulation and physical preservation.....
Enduring to the end means that you watch and hold stedfast, lest you fall. Lots of scriptures tell us this doctrine.

I thought the church was going to be caught up to Christ and miss the tribulation problems? Can you tell me what you think?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I just do what God says and rest on the Sabbath. The Man gathering sticks was breaking the Sabbath. God did not go against His Word. So He had the man put to death. I bet it was a long time before someone did that again.
Galatians for you.....and Hebrews as well....why do you desire bondage....?

The disciples of Jesus gathered and ate wheat on the Sabbath......and Jesus healed on the Sabbath.....

Thank God I am not under the law........nor will I submit to the bondage that you submit to......

THEREFORE, we conclude a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEEDS/WORKS of the LAW.......

For by the LAW there shall NO flesh be justified in his sight.............

O Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you....?

HAVING begin in the SPIRIT are you now made complete or perfect by the DEEDS of the LAW (FLESH)

NOPE.....and 7th Day Adventist dogma does not make the grade......<---Biblically that is!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Do you obey this command.


The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:10



JPT
I'm gonna agree with you.

But and it's not a nasty but but gonna ask you a question.

Why do you think Jesus said to the adulteress woman "Neither do I condemn you?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Enduring to the end means that you watch and hold stedfast, lest you fall. Lots of scriptures tell us this doctrine.

I thought the church was going to be caught up to Christ and miss the tribulation problems? Can you tell me what you think?
What's your thoughts concerning the following

Revelation 3:10-11
10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Enduring to the end means that you watch and hold stedfast, lest you fall. Lots of scriptures tell us this doctrine.

I thought the church was going to be caught up to Christ and miss the tribulation problems? Can you tell me what you think?
Lots of scriptures ALSO have CONTEXT WOVEN IN...........and why should I tell you what I think...you will ignore it, reject it, embellish it, change it, twist it or say I said something I did not say........I already put one who does this regularly on ignore.....now if you seriously want to listen, weigh carefully what I say, be honest and open to learning and instruction I might lay it out.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I'm gonna agree with you.

But and it's not a nasty but but gonna ask you a question.

Why do you think Jesus said to the adulteress woman "Neither do I condemn you?
AMEN...Jesus dis not come to condemn, but rather to save.....and when in Christ....GRACE out bounds our sin.....and the Love of God which passes ALL UNDERSTANDING covers a multitude of sin......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What's your thoughts concerning the following

Revelation 3:10-11
10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown.
VERY astute Bill....the word translated KEEP means to guard and or protect from harm or loss....NOT remove.....and it is applied unto the faithful in the Lord's churches that will be hedged about and protected during the Great Tribulation Period....NOT removed as many erroneously believe.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The Lord commissions Samuel to anoint David King over Israel 1Samuel16:1-13

And you think King David or Abraham wasn't "Saved" before they committed adultery, but, "then he was very remorseful" and then became saved? So that supports your belief that a Christian cannot commit "any other "serious" sin" All sin is very serious by the way.

Are you sure about this, because it is God who judges a man's salvation, not you or I.
Psalm89:20,21
20) I have found David my servant;
with my sacred oil I have anointed him.
21) My hand will sustain him;
surely my arm will strengthen him.
AMEN brother....it is ridiculous to say that David was not saved until after his sin with Bathsheba and Uriah.....as a matter of fact the Psalms are replete with the consequences of David's sin.....not to mention the immediate results.....David speaks of his salvation, God states David was after the heart and mind of God before he was anointed KING, He speaks of his salvation in the present tense and as a saved child of God suffered the chastisement of God because of his sin....

a) The death of the child
b) The sword in his house
c) Rebellious children
d) Sickness

Just to name 4
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
Galatians for you.....and Hebrews as well....why do you desire bondage....?

The disciples of Jesus gathered and ate wheat on the Sabbath......and Jesus healed on the Sabbath.....

Thank God I am not under the law........nor will I submit to the bondage that you submit to......

THEREFORE, we conclude a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEEDS/WORKS of the LAW.......

For by the LAW there shall NO flesh be justified in his sight.............

O Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you....?

HAVING begin in the SPIRIT are you now made complete or perfect by the DEEDS of the LAW (FLESH)

NOPE.....and 7th Day Adventist dogma does not make the grade......<---Biblically that is!
2 Peter 3:14-18
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

This was written to the Galatians after Paul is dead.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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VERY astute Bill....the word translated KEEP means to guard and or protect from harm or loss....NOT remove.....and it is applied unto the faithful in the Lord's churches that will be hedged about and protected during the Great Tribulation Period....NOT removed as many erroneously believe.....
Jesus is mighty to save those who are his and he fufiills the promise.
Those the Father has given me, I will not lose one of them

John 18:8-9
8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
Galatians for you.....and Hebrews as well....why do you desire bondage....?

The disciples of Jesus gathered and ate wheat on the Sabbath......and Jesus healed on the Sabbath.....

Thank God I am not under the law........nor will I submit to the bondage that you submit to......

THEREFORE, we conclude a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEEDS/WORKS of the LAW.......

For by the LAW there shall NO flesh be justified in his sight.............

O Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you....?

HAVING begin in the SPIRIT are you now made complete or perfect by the DEEDS of the LAW (FLESH)

NOPE.....and 7th Day Adventist dogma does not make the grade......<---Biblically that is!
Your comments sound just like the Pharisees. gathering and eating wheat, or even healing is not breaking Sabbath according to the Torah.