The Lake of Fire-For Members Only

They will get their wish. AFTER they bow the knee to Jesus Christ and realize they could have had everlasting life.

According to Scripture, fear of death is the cause of slavery to sin. Nobody in their right mind wants to die.

That's meaningless. If they are obliterated then any shame or remorse is poof! Doesn't mean anything.

Many people suffer so much they would rather have death than life.

Hi, would you kindly explain the difference between "the elect" and "the very elect". I thought there was just one elect, excuse my ignorance cheers

Jesus telling a PARABLE does not refute anything. Jesus Christ also spoke of death as sleep. Why do you ignore that?

It means plenty. They will be dead.

OK well first of all keep in mind that the physical things that happened in the old testament represent the spiritual things of the new testament. For example, a song, a hymn goes like this... "To Canaan's Land I'm on my way, where the soul never dies." It shows how the physical journey from slavery in Egypt to freedom in Canaan (the land flowing with milk and honey) represents our journey from being a slave to sin to living in heaven.

The bible says "Many are called, but few are chosen." This is true of both the physical walk (that happened in the old testament) and the spiritual walk (happening now in the new testament). Do you know how many of the original 600,000+ israélites (that count was only men, there were many, many more if you count women children, at least twice that many) that Moses lead out of Egypt that made it through the wilderness into the promised land of Canann? Two! Joshua and Caleb. They were the only ones that believed God would get them the promised land. For 40 years God lead the people in circles in the wilderness to filter out the ones who were disobedient.

So just as the 600,000+ were called out of Egypt but not chosen, the called (elect) are Christians but the chosen (very elect) are obedient Christians. You see, you can't just talk the talk, you must walk the walk. This is why Christ says many will call Him "Lord" and do many things in His name (CHRISTian) but they won't make it into the promised land of Heaven because they did not do the Will of the Father, they did their own will.

A pig can call himself a duck, paste on feathers, and quack- that does not make it a duck. That is only surface. To truly change within, to be like Christ, we must obey him- not just wear His name and believe in Him.

Jesus telling a PARABLE does not refute anything. Jesus Christ also spoke of death as sleep. Why do you ignore that?

According to Scripture, fear of death is the cause of slavery to sin. Nobody in their right mind wants to die.

Hi OneFaith, the KJV adds "very" to qualify God as well (I'll include a little context so everyone knows where we are):

1 Thessalonians 5
16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He that calleth you, who also will do it.

God is mentioned several times in this passage as you can see, while the "very God" (whoever He is?) is mentioned only once in the entire Bible (just like the "very elect" are only referred to once, in fact). If "very" designates all who are "truly" elect, how was St. Paul using "very" to qualify the word God in this case? And if this is the TRUE God who is finally being referred to here, who's the other Guy that we keep reading about, over and over and over again, in the rest of the Bible?

Thanks!

~Deut

Hi Magenta, the Lord said other things that have led the entirety of the Christian church (Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, Baptists, Lutheran, etc.) to speak as one voice in holding the sleep of the soul as a heretical doctrine.

Here are some of the things that has led the church to believe that our souls are alive/conscious in the Intermediate State (between our death and our resurrection):

Matthew 17
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”
6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified.
7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.”
8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight—
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

Philippians 1
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

Revelation 6
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

So, if our souls lie interred with our bodies in the ground upon our deaths,

1. Was an exception made for Moses? (Elijah never died as you may remember, rather, has was taken to Heaven directly on a chariot of fire)

2. What does the Apostle mean when he speaks of being "absent from the body"?

3. How could we possibly make "pleasing God" our "ambition" in death as well as in life, if we (our souls) are not alive (and conscious) after we die?

4. How could the Apostle think that dying (rather than continuing on in fruitful service here, to both God and the church) could be some kind of "gain" (or that it is "very much better" than living on would be)?

5. Was an exception made again for the souls of the martyrs? If they remained with their bodies in the ground, how are they found in Heaven crying out in a loud voice to the Lord?

Thanks!

~Deut

Was that supposed to make sense?

Hi Joe, if you read what OneFaith wrote about the KJV's one-time use of "very elect", you'll know why I asked him the question it's one-time use of "very God".

~Deut

OK well first of all keep in mind that the physical things that happened in the old testament represent the spiritual things of the new testament. For example, a song, a hymn goes like this... "To Canaan's Land I'm on my way, where the soul never dies." It shows how the physical journey from slavery in Egypt to freedom in Canaan (the land flowing with milk and honey) represents our journey from being a slave to sin to living in heaven.

The bible says "Many are called, but few are chosen." This is true of both the physical walk (that happened in the old testament) and the spiritual walk (happening now in the new testament). Do you know how many of the original 600,000+ israélites (that count was only men, there were many, many more if you count women children, at least twice that many) that Moses lead out of Egypt that made it through the wilderness into the promised land of Canann? Two! Joshua and Caleb. They were the only ones that believed God would get them the promised land. For 40 years God lead the people in circles in the wilderness to filter out the ones who were disobedient.

So just as the 600,000+ were called out of Egypt but not chosen, the called (elect) are Christians but the chosen (very elect) are obedient Christians. You see, you can't just talk the talk, you must walk the walk. This is why Christ says many will call Him "Lord" and do many things in His name (CHRISTian) but they won't make it into the promised land of Heaven because they did not do the Will of the Father, they did their own will.

A pig can call himself a duck, paste on feathers, and quack- that does not make it a duck. That is only surface. To truly change within, to be like Christ, we must obey him- not just wear His name and believe in Him.

That's meaningless. If they are obliterated then any shame or remorse is poof! Doesn't mean anything.

Is capital punishment meaningless?

Only God knows who the elect and very elect are. We don't have that kind of discernment, we are easily deceived. We can look at someone as a model Christian, only to see them them go into the everlasting fire at the end.

Only God knows who the elect and very elect are.

Hi OneFaith, the KJV adds "very" to qualify God as well (I'll include a little context so everyone knows where we are):

1 Thessalonians 5
16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He that calleth you, who also will do it.

God is mentioned several times in this passage as you can see, while the "very God" (whoever He is?) is mentioned only once in the entire Bible (just like the "very elect" are only referred to once, in fact). If "very" designates all who are "truly" elect, how was St. Paul using "very" to qualify the word God in this case? And if this is the TRUE God who is finally being referred to here, who's the other Guy that we keep reading about, over and over and over again, in the rest of the Bible?

Thanks!

~Deut