How To Understand Romans Chapter 9

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DevotiontoBible

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#1
Jan 6, 2018
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#1
I'm going to show an easy way to understand what Romans chapter 9 is all about. Like a Romans ch 9 for dummy's guide. First, read verses 1 and 2. Next, read verses 30, 31, and 32. Now that you have the idea what Paul is saying in that chapter go ahead and read all the stuff in between interpreting it all in light of these verses you first read:

With Christ as my witness, I speak with utter truthfulness. My conscience and the Holy Spirit confirm it. My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them. ...

...What does all this mean? Even though the Gentiles were not trying to follow God’s standards, they were made right with God. And it was by faith that this took place. But the people of Israel, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded. Why not? Because they were trying to get right with God by keeping the law instead of by trusting in him. They stumbled over the great rock in their path.
Romans 9:1‭-‬3‭, ‬30‭-‬32 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.9.1-32.NLT

See, it is so simple. The Jews are missing it. Being right with God is by faith in Jesus Christ not by keeping the law. It is not about predestination Calvinists.
 
so-jesus-e-deus

so-jesus-e-deus

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#2
Feb 7, 2017
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#2
Meditating on all book of Romans in prayer with total spirit of fear and reverence to Jesus.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#3
Jul 18, 2017
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so-jesus-e-deus said:
Meditating on all book of Romans in prayer with total spirit of fear and reverence to Jesus.
Click to expand...
So here is a summation of Romans 9

PAUL DESIRES THE SALVATION OF ALL ISRAELITES
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

ISRAEL WAS CHOSEN BY GOD FOR THE SAKE OF MESSIAH
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

BUT ONLY BELIEVING ISRAEL IS THE TRUE ISRAEL
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

GOD ELECTED ISAAC AND JACOB TO BE IN THE LINE OF ABRAHAM
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

GOD IS SOVEREIGN IN SHOWING HIS MERCY AND GRACE
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

GOD IS MERCIFUL TO BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee [Hosea], I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

ONLY A BELIEVING JEWISH REMNANT WILL BE SAVED
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

ALL ARE SAVED BY FAITH AND RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Regarding the sovereignty of God as applied to His mercy and grace, we need to examine all of Scripture, and we will find that God desires to show mercy and grace to all mankind. However only those who obey the Gospel experience His grace and mercy.
 
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Embankment

Senior Member
#4
Feb 28, 2017
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#4
The Jews were predestined to not follow in the footsteps of Jesus. God hardened their hearts until the fullness of the Gentiles is known.
 
C

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
#5
Dec 26, 2017
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#5
DevotiontoBible said:
I'm going to show an easy way to understand what Romans chapter 9 is all about. Like a Romans ch 9 for dummy's guide. First, read verses 1 and 2. Next, read verses 30, 31, and 32. Now that you have the idea what Paul is saying in that chapter go ahead and read all the stuff in between interpreting it all in light of these verses you first read:

With Christ as my witness, I speak with utter truthfulness. My conscience and the Holy Spirit confirm it. My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them. ...

...What does all this mean? Even though the Gentiles were not trying to follow God’s standards, they were made right with God. And it was by faith that this took place. But the people of Israel, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded. Why not? Because they were trying to get right with God by keeping the law instead of by trusting in him. They stumbled over the great rock in their path.
Romans 9:1‭-‬3‭, ‬30‭-‬32 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.9.1-32.NLT

See, it is so simple. The Jews are missing it. Being right with God is by faith in Jesus Christ not by keeping the law. It is not about predestination Calvinists.
Click to expand...
This is very good.

http://reknew.org/2008/01/how-do-you-respond-to-romans-9/
 
jameen

jameen

Senior Member
#6
Feb 5, 2018
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Manila
#6
Read Proverbs 1:23 in English in order to understand all in the Scriptures and not only Romans Chapter 9.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#7
Jul 18, 2017
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#7
Embankment said:
The Jews were predestined to not follow in the footsteps of Jesus. God hardened their hearts until the fullness of the Gentiles is known.
Click to expand...
So you are saying that they were predestined for damnation. Which is totally false. If predestination for salvation were true, then all Israel would have been saved. Read the opening verses of Romans 9.
 
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Embankment

Senior Member
#8
Feb 28, 2017
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Nehemiah6 said:
So you are saying that they were predestined for damnation. Which is totally false. If predestination for salvation were true, then all Israel would have been saved. Read the opening verses of Romans 9.
Click to expand...
7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened,8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,

Seems pretty clear that God did.
 
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Embankment

Senior Member
#9
Feb 28, 2017
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#9
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h]21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#10
Jan 6, 2018
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#10
Embankment said:
7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened,8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,

Seems pretty clear that God did.
Click to expand...
But it is clear it isn't. Nothing is written there about predestination. It is all about faith in Christ:
So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have—the ones God has chosen—but the hearts of the rest were hardened. Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen.
Romans 11:7‭, ‬20 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.11.7-20.NLT
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#11
Jan 6, 2018
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#11
Embankment said:
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h]21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
Click to expand...
Go back and read my OP then you will understand that God chooses to have mercy on those who have faith in Jesus Christ and hardens those who trust in the law.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#12
Oct 31, 2015
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#12
There is no such thing as being predestined for salvation.


Romans 9 is clear.

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:1-5


  • of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came


Here the context is established for the rest of what Paul is teaching in this chapter.


The people he uses as an example, were predestined for purpose, not predestine for salvation.


The purpose: The lineage of Christ; Those through whom Christ came according to the flesh.




JPT
 
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whatev

Guest
#13
#13
DevotiontoBible said:
I'm going to show an easy way to understand what Romans chapter 9 is all about. Like a Romans ch 9 for dummy's guide. First, read verses 1 and 2. Next, read verses 30, 31, and 32. Now that you have the idea what Paul is saying in that chapter go ahead and read all the stuff in between interpreting it all in light of these verses you first read:

With Christ as my witness, I speak with utter truthfulness. My conscience and the Holy Spirit confirm it. My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them. ...

...What does all this mean? Even though the Gentiles were not trying to follow God’s standards, they were made right with God. And it was by faith that this took place. But the people of Israel, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded. Why not? Because they were trying to get right with God by keeping the law instead of by trusting in him. They stumbled over the great rock in their path.
Romans 9:1‭-‬3‭, ‬30‭-‬32 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.9.1-32.NLT

See, it is so simple. The Jews are missing it. Being right with God is by faith in Jesus Christ not by keeping the law. It is not about predestination Calvinists.
Click to expand...
I've taught English before, including literature. Because of that, I've shown the story arc in a few books -- where the inciting incident was, where the rising action was, the climax, the falling action, and the denouement. I can show that in books, articles, fiction, non-fiction, whatev.

I have taught how to communicate, in many ways and forms.

I don't understand the point of your post, but I can give you some clarity about you from it:
1. Don't count on your conscience. It failed you.
2. Don't use the Holy Spirit in that way. He's not your personal defense. He didn't fail you, but only because you never used him.
3. Christ did witness this. He witnesses all we do, and most the time he witnesses sin. So that wasn't a good defense either.
4. This wasn't truth. This wasn't a lie either. This wasn't communicating.

I joined this site thinking I might learn something. I might, but not from you, because you do not communicate. Trying to explain a book by including only the ending of the climax as the length and breadth of the story only shows that you don't like the story, or you want it to say what you want it to say.

You're right. It's not about "predestination Calvinists." It never was. It's not about frogs that can't jump either.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#14
Jul 31, 2013
38,016
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#14
. . as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. ​
(Acts 13:48)​

what does this mean?
:)

why doesn't it say "as man as believed were appointed to eternal life" instead of what it actually says?
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#15
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#15
whatev said:
I've taught English before, including literature. Because of that, I've shown the story arc in a few books -- where the inciting incident was, where the rising action was, the climax, the falling action, and the denouement. I can show that in books, articles, fiction, non-fiction, whatev.

I have taught how to communicate, in many ways and forms.

I don't understand the point of your post, but I can give you some clarity about you from it:
1. Don't count on your conscience. It failed you.
2. Don't use the Holy Spirit in that way. He's not your personal defense. He didn't fail you, but only because you never used him.
3. Christ did witness this. He witnesses all we do, and most the time he witnesses sin. So that wasn't a good defense either.
4. This wasn't truth. This wasn't a lie either. This wasn't communicating.

I joined this site thinking I might learn something. I might, but not from you, because you do not communicate. Trying to explain a book by including only the ending of the climax as the length and breadth of the story only shows that you don't like the story, or you want it to say what you want it to say.

You're right. It's not about "predestination Calvinists." It never was. It's not about frogs that can't jump either.
Click to expand...
It is too bad then that you never learned about interpreting within circles of literary context. I stated what it is about not just what it isn't.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#16
Jul 31, 2013
38,016
13,635
113
#16
whatev said:
I joined this site thinking I might learn something. I might, but not from you, because you do not communicate.
Click to expand...
hi, welcome to CC!
i'm post and i'll be your mathematician. :)

i'm not sure that it's ever a good idea to totally write someone off. i've been surprised often, and learned through a number of people here that on some other point ((or even the same point)) i definitely disagreed with. i have to remind myself, not to think more of myself than i ought, which includes not thinking more of my own thinking than is prudent -- to be humble and thereby ready to gain understanding and knowledge. vanity prevents wisdom, even when it is subtle.
 
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whatev

Guest
#17
#17
posthuman said:
hi, welcome to CC!
i'm post and i'll be your mathematician. :)

i'm not sure that it's ever a good idea to totally write someone off. i've been surprised often, and learned through a number of people here that on some other point ((or even the same point)) i definitely disagreed with. i have to remind myself, not to think more of myself than i ought, which includes not thinking more of my own thinking than is prudent -- to be humble and thereby ready to gain understanding and knowledge. vanity prevents wisdom, even when it is subtle.
Click to expand...
I can learn from anyone, except people who cannot communicate. But I haven't written him off, for failure to communicate. I've written this particular sermon off for failure to communicate.

And I suspect if I learn from you it will be hard because math is not my native language. :)
 
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whatev

Guest
#18
#18
DevotiontoBible said:
It is too bad then that you never learned about interpreting within circles of literary context. I stated what it is about not just what it isn't.
Click to expand...
Should I sue my college for giving me a degree in it and yet failing to learn it?

It is about God. I did not see you tell what it was about. It is the Bible, so it is always about God.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#20
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
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#20
whatev said:
Should I sue my college for giving me a degree in it and yet failing to learn it?

It is about God. I did not see you tell what it was about. It is the Bible, so it is always about God.
Click to expand...
Yes, you definitely got ripped off. Here is what I said Ro 9 is about: "See, it is so simple. The Jews are missing it. Being right with God is by faith in Jesus Christ not by keeping the law."
 
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