Faith in what? What is the core principle for true saving faith?

I got this far into the posts.

The church the body of Christ, in the ministry of reconciliation... has specific doctrines that apply to us. We have the life of God as our seal, we are not in the book of life, we are not sheep, we are not goats, not wheat & tares, we are not the bride of Christ and so on.

All of the bible is for us, but all of the bible is not to us.

I saw someone post last time I was here, that when Jesus spoke to his disciples He was speaking to us, and this is not true, because Jesus' earthly ministry is different than the ministry God is currently working through, the "ministry of reconciliation", aimed at the house of the one new man, fellowship of the mystery etc.

Our judgment day, is not about sin, but about doctrine that manifest God in the flesh for a certain work being put on display. We learn this and our doctrine by our approach to bible study rightly divided.

Now, since I'm here, I just looked back at the op...

We believe, this is how we are saved by grace... through Faith and not of ourselves, that is to plainly say, the faith of God, the faith of Christ, "faith to faith" as Romans 1 says, this is saving faith, we "trust" in this faith, "the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ" Rm 3:22 kjv

Looks like you are inventing your own doctrine.

If believers are not in the book of life then who is? Unbelievers?
If we are not sheep, then we are goats, and if we are not goats, then ww are sheep. The same applies to wheat and tares.
As to "we are not the bride of Christ" that is an EGREGIOUS HERESY.
Another FALSE DOCTRINE. All the Bible is for us, and also to us. (2 Tim 3:16,16)
Clearly you are very confused. The judgment of believers will be for their WORKS.

And the good works, are they our works or God's work through us... God's of course, and God only works through building a house of correct doctrine... not wood, hay, stubble.

All of the bible for us, as in admonition, but not to us, as in application.

Commingling doctrines of prior ministries creates wrong thinking in regard eternal things about us, the church the body of Christ, and our salvation, show us using scripture how it is we are the "bride of Christ"

I didn't even put forward this thought.

We are saved by "believing" the gospel of our salvation. We are justified, we are sanctified, we are righteous before God in Christ. We don't have a doctrine of "enduring to the end", we cannot ever be subject to a "Blotting Out" from the book of life for our sin.

Faith in what? Jesus Christ, birth, death and resurrection

What is the core principal for true saving faith? Faith/belief in Jesus Christ, birth, death and resurrection

These are your exact words: "...we are not in the book of life..." (post #21)

So if Christians are not in the Book of Life, then who is?

And if that was a blunder, then kindly take care to check what you write.

No blunder here.

If we cannot be blotted out... then, by your way of thinking, "believers" or "Christians" saved in the dispensation of the grace of God can lose their salvation. Christianity didn't even exist at the time of Jesus' earthly ministry, or during the early ministry of the 12 Apostles. The book of life is not our doctrine, because the gospel of our ministry is not based on enduring to the end, nor waiting for the times of refreshing for the remission of our sin.

Acts 3:19-21 [SUP]19 [/SUP]Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


The little flock, is a bible term for a reason.

A corresponding work to what you already believe in your heart concerning the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Can faith without a corresponding work save you?

The obvious answer is, no.

No work of faith, no salvation.

The two go hand in hand.

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Creation testifies that God does exist that created all things, and He loves people, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter.

God is an invisible Spirit, and God's kingdom invisible, unnoticed by the natural eye, so we have to believe that God, and His kingdom does exist without seeing God or His kingdom, but there are witnesses that testify of it.

The saints believe God does exist, and His kingdom does exist, without seeing God or His kingdom, and that is faith.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

We come to God, and Christ, having faith in a God, and His kingdom, that we cannot see with the naked eye.

After we confess Christ, and receive the Spirit, then God will reveal His spiritual kingdom to us by way of understanding truth and the invisible things of Him spiritual.

We have to have faith to be saved, and then God will strengthen that faith more by showing us spiritual things that we could not attain to when we first had faith in God, and Christ.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works by love, and charity, love in action, is greater than faith.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James points out charity, love in action, that if neglected means their faith is dead, and that is because charity, love in action, is greater then faith.

Charity will go on forever, but faith and hope are only needed on earth, and not in heaven, for a saint does not need hope, and faith, when they are with God, and Jesus.

We are saved by faith, but love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and love helps the poor and needy, which is why the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Not faith is the fulfilling of the law, but love is the fulfilling of the law.Not faith alone, but love alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

That is why we have to have works to have faith, because we have to have love to have faith, and that is why it is called charity, love in action.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

The prosperity Gospel causes many people to lack in faith, and anybody that goes by their wants and holds unto that attitude falls victim to lacking faith.

True saving faith brings down the fire from heaven...you enter into the Spirit. Otherwise you are free to believe whatever you want. But if you want God to have a say...you must seek for His approval.

Rom1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith

So faith should be a process that was started by God , being grown by God until finished ----> said as having faith in Jesus = understood Mat13:23 = saved .

Mat13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty

Why not He came much earlier in Mosses age or even Abraham age or before ?.

This is surely the bothering question to us.

This realm where we are living is a temporary realm that one day shall be over, so this is surely just only a wandering arena for His people where finally surely will be settled in eternity/heaven = NHNE.

His people surely were spiritually beings that were created before the creation of the world Eph1:4 = names those were written in the book of life before the creation of the world that gradually being sent to wander/sojourn : e.g. Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, …….., Noah, ………., Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, ………, Us, last name in the book of life ( Zec12:1 , Jer1:5 ) ( vessels of mercy abide within vessel un to honor Rom9:23 , 9:21 ) .

Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.



Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Rom9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor



9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory



Why should we (His people/the Chosen ) wander prior before reaching the eternity ? -----> for our growth , because there is no growth in eternity every things are steady/flat (1Pet1:17).



1Pet1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:



God should teach His people that finally they comprehend well that “salvation is by God’s Grace alone” , by this Comprehension His people surely will bring glory to Him ( the goal of creation ) Isa43:7.

Isa43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him



This premise (“salvation is by God’s Grace alone”) will stand firmly if there is the Chosen people, this very people is totally different to the common people (born of flesh/vessels of dishonor Rom9:21) in God’s sight because within them there is spiritually being that God put when he or she physically is born e.g. Jacob Rom9:13 ( Rom9:7-8) , God doesn’t put spiritually being within the born of flesh when he or she is born e.g. Esau , so by this sake God should choose one among others then there was an event such Gen11:7-9 .



9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



Gen11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth



Now let’s see the Eden story , What Eden story really means ?, this story was format of this perishable realm -------> there should be a realm that consist of one species with exponentially growth potency among others with utterly none.

After this format is established , then God gradually started to send His people for sojourning in this perishable earth.

God teach us to realize that we will never be able to achieve our salvation by our own efforts/will

Through :

He gave us hundreds of mosaic laws to be fulfilled , unfortunately no one realize about this impossible ordinance , His people still enthusiastically trying to fulfill, though they took about 1,500 years since the laws were proclaimed , actually if we are willing to ponder and comparing which is the easier : not eat the fruit of the tree of life intentionally , or fulfilling the hundreds of laws ? surely the first one is the easier , if by this easier ordinance they were driven out from Eden , didn’t it lead them to realize that they surely ate the fruit of the tree of life intentionally if they were let to be there ?, wasn’t the driven out event really a strong proof that they were incapable creature to fulfill the mosaic laws ? why then they should hold fast to laws ?, so we surely need God himself to compel us by manifesting His Grace acted by the Messiah 2,000 years ago ( couldn’t be quickened , men need to verify themselves that they are really vanity creature by their own efforts /will will never be able to achieve their own salvation or others , it is a necessity that they need the charity of God alone ).

So what was: belief , believe Me , faith in Me means ?

It means: the cross event was really the manifestation of God’s Grace , so started from that day His people/the Chosen/ Us began to realize that “Salvation is by God’s Grace alone “ so by then we will be able to bring Glory to God -------> the purpose of creation is achieved .

Pardon me with so bad in English.

Faith is that form of believing based solely upon the scriptures that have been illuminated by the Holy Spirit and will always produce works appropriate with repentance in those who have been born of the Spirit.

The core principle is believing in Jesus as the only way to salvation.