Not By Works

no im directly attacking your false gospel






I am not Jesus


ok?
and you think a pain in the back saves?



what exchange are you talking about before you impute or remove my memories


again.... no point to what youre sayin?

i wouldnt say that
you just think i would



lol of course
wouldnt the alternative be drowning someone?

you should never dip someone in water against that persons will

no WE arent


you are

baptism of the Holy spirit doesnt require being dipped in water

ben
im right

the bible is clear

praise God for working in me to rightly divide and not pervert His gospel like some here do

His last words were "It is finished.." and "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"
it is you who pushes this is required for salvation not Him

Jesus commanded many things
now are you suggested we are saved according to how well we do these things? but never for sure until it happens?

this was just a cerimony ....

This is just 1 of many, which I know you are aware of:
Revelations 2: 1-5
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

If you follow the embolden parts, you will not hear one word about believe me and by grace are you saved. It is an evaluation of Jesus about their works, good or bad. These are people that you would call saved, but they have lost their first love of the gospel and have fallen. Jesus gives them a reprieve by telling them to repent or he will come and remove them.

Now you can argue that they were never saved in the first place, but if you go that route everyone in the ancient first century church was not in a saved condition, and nobody in that era made it to eternal life. So that is not a solution to your problem.

The solution is they were saved, but were fallen and if they repent, they would be saved still, but if they did not repent, they would be removed. (meaning they would lose their eternal life)

Prove that statement from the scriptues. Thank you. Where does it say that baptism is not necessary to be saved?

Your question has been answered numerous times, Your continued ignoring of those answers and continuing to act as if they have not been answered just makes yourself look bad man.

Again, One can believe and NOT HAVE FAITH, if you do not have faith, Your not saved, whether you believe or not.

We have all told you, the Holy Spirit immerses us into the spiritual Body of CHRIST, which is a 100% real thing, and has NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIAN WATER BAPTISM. ONLY THAT SPIRITUAL BAPTISM is NECESSARY TO BE SAVED. THAT IS THE ONE BAPTISM mention in this verse:

Ephesians 4:4-7 (HCSB)
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope at your calling—
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, {Baptism into that Body}
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.
7 Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of the Messiah’s gift.


1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
12 For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body,
though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body
—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


1 Peter 3:19-21 (HCSB)
19 In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison
20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of
Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is,
eight people—were saved through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you
(not the removal of the filth of the flesh,
but the pledge of a good conscience toward God)
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


That Pledge of Good conscience toward GOD, is NOT CHRISTIAN WATER BAPTISM, it is the time in your life that you willingly surrendered to Christ as LORD meaning MASTER, purely out of LOVE FOR HIM. Notice in verse 20 above, Peter actually said that ONLY EIGHT WERE EVER SAVED THROUGH WATER. WHY? BECAUSE THEY GOT INTO THE BOAT or ARK, BELIEVING GOD.


Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


NO MENTION OF WATER IS THERE IN THAT PASSAGE AT ALL. You have to CONFESS, not just profess, JESUS AS LORD. THAT IS PART OF SPIRITUAL BAPTISM, for you cannot say it as a actual CONFESSION, except via the Power of the HOLY SPIRIT. 1 Cor. 12:3

IS CHRISTIAN WATER BAPTISM IMPORTANT?

YES, but it is NOT part of our SALVATION, it is one of the First Steps in our CHRISTIAN WALK WITH CHRIST AFTER WE ARE SAVED.

NO, CHRISTIAN WATER BAPTISM DOES NOT SAVE ANYBODY, ESPECIALLY MORMON BAPTISM.

Is that right? Now you say a person can believe but not have faith. I thought that the second you believe you are saved and faith is immediately imputed to you, and that the righteousness of Christ is immediately imputed to you so that you have ES immediately and forever.

Now you change your tune. One can believe but NOT HAVE FAITH. Wow geesh wow, you must have bit your tongue when you wrote those words to get around the truth of that parable.

justpassinthrough is right on target.

Numbers 18:19-24 Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your regular share. IT IS AN COVENANT of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring.” The Lord said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites. “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.’”

ALMOST ALL IF NOT ALL OF THE PROTESTANTS AND OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS AROUND THE WORLD ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO TEACH OSAS AND THAT FAITH ALONE SAVES VOID OF ANY SORT OF WORKS, COLLECT AND TEACH THEIR MEMBERS TO GIVE TITHES ALTHOUGH IT IS CLEAR FROM THE VERSES ABOVE THE TRUTH ABOUT IT.

IF THE ISRAELITES WHO WERE GIVEN AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WILL REPENT AND BELIEVE IN JESUS, THEY WILL BE JUSTIFIED FOR SURE. WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THEY BREAK AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH GOD? WOULD THEY BE SAVED?
WHAT IF THEY UPHOLD IT, WOULD YOU CALL THEM WORKERS FOR SALVATION AND ALIENATED FROM JESUS?

ARE GENTILE CHRISTIANS REQUIRED TO GIVE TITHES OTHERWISE BE ROBBING GOD ACCDG TO THEIR PASTORS WHO TEACHES THEM THAT IT IS BY FAITH ALONE VOID OF ANY RIGHTEOUS WORKS THAT A MAN SHALL BE SAVED?

ACCORDING TO "OSASERS" AND "ALONERS", SALVATION IS THROUGH FAITH ALONE VOID OF ANY SORT OF RIGHTEOUS WORKS.

THEY CONDEMN AND INSULT THOSE BELIEVERS WHO PROMOTE OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS YET CLEARLY TOLERATE EVERY VIOLAftTION OF GOD'S COMMANDS FOR THE BENEFIT OF PERSONAL GAINS..

Luke 12:15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

1 Timothy 6:3-10 Love of Money If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

1 Timothy 6:3-10,17-19 Love of Money If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.


Romans 2:1-4 God’s Righteous Judgment You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

This is just 1 of many, which I know you are aware of:
Revelations 2: 1-5
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

If you follow the embolden parts, you will not hear one word about believe me and by grace are you saved. It is an evaluation of Jesus about their works, good or bad. These are people that you would call saved, but they have lost their first love of the gospel and have fallen. Jesus gives them a reprieve by telling them to repent or he will come and remove them.

Now you can argue that they were never saved in the first place, but if you go that route everyone in the ancient first century church was not in a saved condition, and nobody in that era made it to eternal life. So that is not a solution to your problem.

The solution is they were saved, but were fallen and if they repent, they would be saved still, but if they did not repent, they would be removed. (meaning they would lose their eternal life)

Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

Revelation 2
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

To ephesus specifically- an actual church
this is what HE (Jesus) says
to the 7 candlesticks which are the 7 churches


2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

He knows this church does well according to their deeds and are able to cast down false doctrine and cannot stand those who push these false doctrine



3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

they have done these things in the name of Jesus and do not tire of doing these specific good deeds

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.


But God is upset because He sees their zeal... their passion they once had died down despite their works He sees their hearts

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


remember the passion and love they once had for our Father back when they had first been delivered from the world and overcame

and fully do these things you USED to do with passion and love instead of some dutiful half hearted attempt or else God will remove this church - candlestick (which is no longer around) unless they repent of this lack of love

3340. metanoeó ►
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose




6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

but you still have done well in hating the deeds of these i also hate from the nicolaitanes <- encouragement to wrap up the warning and reproof

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

To those that have an ear <- His sheep this Spirit reminds us

those of us who have overcome you have my word you will eat of the tree of life <- assurance to His children He just chastened and warned




1 john


4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God

We have all read this many times. It boils down to Jesus speaking to believers and he sees their good works, and he sees that they have also left their first love, which is him and the gospel. So unless they repent, these believers will be removed.

Looks like they did not repent because that church is gone. Perfect example of believers that lost their salvation.

I know you can comment with different words to meet your agenda, but this is a perfect example of believers losing their salvation.

You are right on target. Thanks

I'm not sure why you are so angry that I feel that water baptism is necessary for salvation. We all do it, so what is the difficulty?

Why must you emphsize that it is not necessary?

... He is not going to use his last words on earth to tell someone to do something that has no value or is not necessary.

That word believe, Is not just ordinary belief. It means literally, you are trusting a person to the point you are assured that what they say is correct. and your assured that what they promise they will carry out.

Mental agreement is not faith. NO ONE is saved because they just believe Jesus lived and died on the cross. NO ONE.

ya ive heard professing jews and muslims say they believe He died on the cross and was a real man

they just deny He is Christ and have no belief in His promises or word

if you deny Him as the only Lord and savior and call Him a liar...

that isnt faith in Him

I believe all those scriptures, but I also believe the scriptures that tell us to be water baptized by full immersion.

I'm not sure why you are so angry that I feel that water baptism is necessary for salvation. We all do it, so what is the difficulty?

Why must you emphsize that it is not necessary? Are you afraid that it might be counted as a worthy work, and somehow cause you to go around boasting.

You have such a thing about boasting. Nobody that I know goes around boasting that they were baptized therefore they are saved (ES).

I am not evil because I follow Jesus into the waters of baptism and believe that it is a necessary cerimony that is symbolic of the death of our old person, and resurrection of our new person in Christ. Jesus did it and commanded all nations to be taught and baptized. So I did as Jesus said. He is not going to use his last words on earth to tell someone to do something that has no value or is not necessary.

No it’s not.

The teaching of the Sower deals with people who believe and are saved, and because of persecution they turn away from Him and deny him so as to save their life.

In the first century this persecution was carried out by unbelieving Jews who were persecuting their countrymen who believed, trying to turn them away from Christ by turning back to the antichrist religion of Judaism.

That is what is being discussed here in Luke 8:12-13


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those who believe are saved.

Those who believe for a while then reject Jesus Christ to save their own life will lose their eternal life.



JPT

No it’s not.

The teaching of the Sower deals with people who believe and are saved, and because of persecution they turn away from Him and deny him so as to save their life.

In the first century this persecution was carried out by unbelieving Jews who were persecuting their countrymen who believed, trying to turn them away from Christ by turning back to the antichrist religion of Judaism.

That is what is being discussed here in Luke 8:12-13


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those who believe are saved.

Those who believe for a while then reject Jesus Christ to save their own life will lose their eternal life.



JPT

false

the "teaching of the Sower" does not teach what you say it does

ive done a break down for you many times

😏

Correct.....because they have no real argument.....all the promises and power of Christ must fail, his words must be found false and the very verbiage and verb tense of the bible must be flat rejected or twisted out of context to stand against eternal security....these false religions that teach against it do so for the sake of control....I.E. IF you not Catholic your lost....IF you don't SPEAK in Tongues your lost, If your not immersed your lost, IF you don't keep the Sabbath your lost...if you don't do this or that your lost...blah blah blah.....it is ALL about control and keeping people under the thumb of religious religionists.......makes me want to spew.....