Not By Works

2 pieces of information that make me wonder how you think:
1) you say, "thats like saying belief is a choice". Were you serious or just being funny? Do you seriously believe that my belief is imputed into me and that I have no choice whether to believe in Jesus or not? If you were serious, then you believe that your belief was imputed into you, and that your faith was imputed into you, and your righteousness was not your but Jesus's righteousness was imputed into you, and all this imputed stuff allow God to let you live with Him for the eternities. Is this how you think of how a person gets eternal life?

2) you say, "the need to ignore verses that go against the message of other verses. Were you serious or just being funny? Is it OK for you to ignore a large swath of the bible? I guess so? But you have to know that is dangerous? Ignoring scriptures that do not fit your theology is not very wise either. Just saying.

To BillG:

I was saying that some do not lose their faith and then lose their salvation, but go on to be great witnesses of Jesus Christ, and bring much fruit into the KOG.

1. belief in Jesus is a response to hearing the truth and accepting it

no i did not "CHOOSE" to believe it when i heard it

i tried to reject it ... i even posted this in my testimony when i was still a sinless perfectionist maybe a year ago
(you can still look this up)
but i couldnt turn away from the truth after i was called


2. i believe YOU ignore many verses to keep your head canon alive

My view....one who has believed into a false gospel that allows for the loss of salvation did not trust into the Jesus of the bible by faith....the King Jimmy and most translations do not bring across the definite article tied to "THE" JESUS of the bible.....

A believer will never be forsaken. But a believer turned unbeliever will be forsaken. So says the parable of the vine, and the sower, and the merciful king. All 3 are perfect examples of a believer that turned to unbeliever and lost their salvation.

You still got that JKV Bible?

So are you saying that if I read the KJV that I will miss a very important piece of how to be saved?

So they can have little minor works to begin with but grow?

If so that I agree with.
So is Forgiveness a good work (asked in a previous post)
After all you say if we do not forgive then we will not be forgiven, if not then we lose our salvation even if we have not lost our faith?

After all I never lost my faith whilst being sexually abused and had not forgiven.

I'm not trying to play the victim here but I'm trying to make you think a bit.
I did not have the capacity to forgive, I was 14, in a Christian Foster home.

My wife and I are walking with a couple in our church.
And boy have they been through a lot, before they were married and after they were married. And praise God they are still together, worked in them and is continuing to do so.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not just black and white.
Jesus came for the weary, the sick, the land, the broken hearted.
He came to set the prisoner free.

A physician works to bring healing.
Jesus is the greatest physician.

You talk about forgiveness and if we have unforgivness in our hearts before we die then we are not saved or lose salvation.

Sorry ben but I do not agree with that.
We are to be doctors and nurses to the wounded, allow God to use us to bring healing.

And the truth is ben I'm not sure you get that.

I do think and you can disagree with me and I hope you do.

But I feel your counsel would be to a broken hearted, emotionally pain infested person, a genuine beliver who came to your for counseling would be.

If you do not forgive then God will not forgive you and if not when you die then you are in hell.

Then you would focus on works.

To be honest if that's what you are I will stand against it.

To me you are the type of person that if I came to you to talk about my severe gambling problem, so much so that I did not realise I was gambling. One minute at my desk the next gambling and I had no recollection of walking to gamble I'm not sure you could have coped with me.

I thank God for a faithful grace filled man who walked with me during that time he spent with me.

Revealing the love and grace of God for me.
Where I was at.

I hope I'm wrong concerning my thoughts, I really do

its kinda banged up

but i will never lose it



i feel like God gave it to me

I am grateful for that man too, and happy for you that you have found Jesus and you are happy.

AMEN bro....the simplicity found in Christ is exactly that...SO SIMPLE most miss it or have to embellish it beyond what they bible gives as truth....

MAN...where in what I said did I even imply that....??

..the King Jimmy and most translations do not bring across the definite article tied to "THE" JESUS of the bible..... (see your post 64680

This statement seems to mean that the KJV and other translations lose something about something and I boiled it down to how one is saved. I think you said one time that the definite article 'the' somehow ties Jesus to us forever or something like that, which has to do with being saved forever. I could have been wrong, but that is what I thought. Correct me nicely if I am wrong. Thank you.

Mate I found Jesus before that.
Do you think I did not?

Can you be that man?

..the King Jimmy and most translations do not bring across the definite article tied to "THE" JESUS of the bible..... (see your post 64680

This statement seems to mean that the KJV and other translations lose something about something and I boiled it down to how one is saved. I think you said one time that the definite article 'the' somehow ties Jesus to us forever or something like that, which has to do with being saved forever. I could have been wrong, but that is what I thought. Correct me nicely if I am wrong. Thank you.

No, I am not that man, but I wished I had been for you.

It's interesting but very important when it comes to Bible translation.

Romans 8:1-4

Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (KJV)

Romans 8:1-4
Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NIV)

See the difference and how it can affect a believer?

I would like recon to analyze these 2 translations, since I have zero ability to interpret scripture, and tell us what the differences are and how they may affect how we are saved. Thank you recon.

BillG, since you spotted it, give it a try too, lets see what you come up with as to how the KJV may cause a person to look at salvastion differently. Good going.

Impossible.....to believe what you believe is to make Jesus into an inept liar that does not keep his word.

JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of faith he begins in us. TO say the bolded above ^^^^^ states clearly that HE DOES NOT FINISH and COMPLETE something he STARTED <---makes him into a weak inept liar that cannot keep his word.

Exactly why your view is false.

I think for me the difference arises in verse 1.

JKV "Who do not walk according to the flesh"

NIV does not translate that.

KJV is textus receptus whereas the NIV is Nestle Aland (or something like that)

So to me if you read the KJV a believer can be led to believe that if at times they walk in the flesh they are condemned therefore it leads to a sinless perfection works orientated walk with Jesus, which detracts from relationship.

Yet we find Paul talking about sin, sin that resides in the flesh, yet it is him not sinning.

So to me the KJV leads to doing, working harder rather than being whom we are in Jesus which leads to doing.