Baptism and holy spirit

Well...our Lord bore much more than a little rudeness out of love for us. I can handle a little rudeness or abruptness. It's not like it sheds any of my blood. It doesn't even leave a mark. Besides, I happen to know he's missing most of his teeth as old as he is. He can't hurt you.

Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

Since you are convinced I don't know please tell me how you define ecstatic utterances.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hmm...we see the core of the verse as being different. You see the topic as being about a certain manifestation/gift and I see the thrust as being that...no manifestation or gift of the Spirit is worth a hill of beans without love being expressed in us and through us by the Spirit...

Reminds me of those infernal drawings we had to do in English class where we had to pick out all the parts of a sentence and diagram them. I would have listed the main topic of the sentence as being love. You would have listed it as being tongues. An English teacher would have to say which is the right main topic of the sentence...maybe one will come in here.

Hmm...I might actually bet you on that. I have found very few cessasionists in my travels in here...

Tongues is not vain repetition nor was tongues the context of what Jesus was saying .

LOL Guess they were not Calvinists.

They were used of God to write the NT but they did not have a complete copy for a couple decades. They were Jews so they used the OT. Same thing today in that you cannot witness to a Jew from the NT. Jews do not receive they authority of the NT. Blinded as part of the consequences of the cry for the blood of Jesus to be on them and their children.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I agree but I have heard them described as such.

Now what about them ecstatic utterances. I have heard tongues described in that fashion as well.

I have always held that tongues must be languages. Real human languages not fantasy languages.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

but we do, right?

there are people of all races and religions blinded

nothing new there

yes...the cry for the blood of Jesus to be upon them and their children is enough to make your blood run cold when, in retrospect, you know the history

Do we have the complete NT? I certainly think we do. The Holy Spirit would seem to confirm the authority of the completed NT.

History is continuing to be written but Gods word transcends history.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Tongues must be a language you say you have heard? So now what? You will provided a language expert aka linguist to explain how tongues is not a language ? Or do we have to listen to the false narrative of how it is a pagan practice? You suggest it is fantasy yet you do not know every language under God of men do you? I was never taught how to speak in tongues, nor do I just speak repetitively and think God will hear me for my much speaking . Before I even open my mouth, I know God hears me.



Now my personal experience had nothing to do with pagans or anything demonic because One does not seek the Lord Jesus Christ and finds a devil. Those who call on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved, not might be. The Holy Spirit as in the word of God, has gifting which are His gifts found in the Unit Chapter’s of 1cor 12, 13, and 14. Tongues is one of them. You set a standard to meet your human reasoning . I have been asked to demonstrate, prove your tongues are real. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for show. The Holy Spirit is very patient with us when we are growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. Everyone has needed correction in their walk with the Lord.

That is a good point however Did the New Testament church in Acts have the gospel writings Matthew Mark and Luke? No they did not they had the Old Testament. And the witness of the Apostles

I was not asking about your personal experiences.

I asked you to define ecstatic utterances.

I have no reason to believe that tongues in the bible were anything other than human languages. Which ones is not the question as any human language is a tongue that can be understood by one and not comprehended by another without an interpreter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That is a good point however Did the New Testament church in Acts have the gospel writings Matthew Mark and Luke? No they did not they had the Old Testament. And the witness of the Apostles

that is not the purpose of Biblical tongues or I should say the Gift of Tongues in 1cor 12, 13, and 14.

the term "ecstatic utterances."

is one coined by SDA mainly and other who are not for the gift of tongues today. the term "ecstatic utterances." comes from a 1879

defintion of what is known as ecstasy or glossolalia . The problem is glossolia existed before the 1800s and this terms has developed over time.

the only problem with this understanding is this, you ready ? IT IS NOT BIBLE Based. the term changes over the years however, only because they have looked at other belief systems outside of the Bible and early Church experiences to explain the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Why would any Christian used world depictions of what the Word of God calls the “Gifts of the Holy Spirit” ? One reason , to discredit a move of God that is founded in the context of the Word of God and in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit seen used over and over again in the Book of Acts. You will not find in the Bible the term “ecstatic utterances”. It is not a biblical explanation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

There you go the defintion of "ecstatic utterances.".

I've seen it described as an uncontrolled spontaneous excited utterance. It usually sounds like stuttering or an otherwise unintelligible utterance.

I agree it is not biblical nor is it tongues biblical or otherwise.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So I was thinking while I walked my awful, awful little dog...is the biggest point of contention that some are disturbed because others think they are speaking a language that angels speak and others think they are speaking some human language even if it's no longer around?

(SBG and Joe, please let me know if I start responding to myself again..)

I don't think that's the problem. At least it's not for me.

I think the point of contention is that several posters are convinced that tongues ceased, as well as prophesy and knowledge, and that anyone claiming to do those things today is deceived, a heretic, practicing a false doctrine, etc.

I am also convinced that many people simply do not understand what speaking in tongues is, and what it is for.

(SBG and Joe, please let me know if I start responding to myself again..)