Not By Works

Thank you dcon we are in agreement, study the real not the counterfeit.

The Apostles and writers of the New Testament knew well of the dangers of Gnosticism. Let's continue to guard against this heretical ideology until our Master returns for His Bride the Church. Lest some would fall away from the truth and except a lie.

Gnosticism and the New Testament Canon
Irenaeus wrote in "Against Heresies, Book 1, which was a detailed attack on Gnosticism: "Error, indeed, is never set forth in its naked deformity, lest, being thus exposed, it should at once be detected. But it is craftily decked out in an attractive dress, so as, by its outward form, to make it appear to the inexperienced more true than the truth."

So true! Gnosticism is difficult to dismantle it because it is so subtle, it sounds Christianese because scriptures are used (though not correctly), and there is no one smoking gun statement or creed one can point to and say 'AHA! False!" If it was so easy to dismantle, I suppose the first century Christians at Colossae under Epahras and Paul's preaching would have spotted it!

Post #64,062 I meant to say "accept a lie", not "except a lie", 5min edit time limit was up...

False....one can have a generalized idea without a full knowledge and know that it contradicts the bible's truths and principles....nice try...bad logic

I didn't try anything. It is illogical to argue someone can speak against something they know nothing about. It is even worse to try to defend that it is logical to do so.

'THIS----->one can have a generalized idea without a full knowledge and know that it contradicts the bible's truths and principles....nice try...bad logic

Thank you dcon, understandably good logic

Responded to already with this: I didn't try anything. It is illogical to argue someone can speak against something they know nothing about. It is even worse to try to defend that it is logical to do so.

The truth is the truth.....it is ridiculous to believe one must KNOW everything about something that contradicts the bible before they can assess that it contradicts the bible.....

THIS----->one can have a generalized idea without a full knowledge and know that it contradicts the bible's truths and principles....nice try...bad logic
AND THIS-->The truth is the truth.....it is ridiculous to believe one must KNOW everything about something that contradicts the bible before they can assess that it contradicts the bible.....

Well, it helps to not misrepresent what has been said before attempting to make a point based on your own writing and not what was actually said.
I have never stated someone must know everything about something....
But you appear not to know that.

Hi decon, never had I thought that criticizing a well known heresy such as "Gnosticism" would mean you have to give a defense of your position, on a Christian Forum no less. Crazy man!

People go to seed on many things brother and no matter how you explain, slice, dice and re-serve.....even in the most simplest terms, they still cannot comprehend and or are willing to just say...You know what, your right......and too be frank....one reason why many will end up in hell.....I knew a guy once in a false religion....we had numerous dialogues and everyone ended with him unable to address the truth....finally one day he threw his hands up and said.....If it was good enough for my daddy and granddaddy it is good enough for me....and I can tell you that what he believed will take him to hell.......such is the case with MANY things discussed on this site......!

To defend a "well known" heretical ideology as is, "Gnosticism", is indefensible. And to receive criticism for bringing out the truth that, "Gnosticism is Heretical" is equally indefensible.

This should not be happening on a beautiful Christian Forum.

Generalized = verb make a sweeping assumption, statement
More words related to generalized
vague
adjective. not definite or clear

Amen dcon, to defend "gnosticism" is just rotten to the core, I cannot believe my own eyes, shocking.

You can forget trying to argue your point.....my point stands.....end of story.....as a matter of fact I will take it one step further......those led of the Spirit have a finely tuned conscience which is our God given warning system....and when Our spirit and conscience gets pricked by something/anything we can rightfully assume that it is in error and or wrong.....The same is true of my comment....one can have a very limited view of something, a generalized view of something and KNOW it is contrary to the bible........humanism, new ageism, voodoo etc....the very essence of these man made religions, including being Gnostic, contradicts the bible and it does not take a genius, a full knowledge and or a complete understanding of the very tenants of these named cults to know they are false, wrong and contradict the scriptures......

The saying you quoted is saying 70 in the Gospel of Thomas. It is a gnostic variant of saying 42, which parallels Mark 4.25, Matt. 25.29 and Luke 19.26. It's basically saying that pneumatics (the elect who possess gnosis) will be saved by acknowledging the inward spark of divinity, and ignorant souls without gnosis will be lost because they're not aware of it.

It's not a scriptural truth at all, but it does show how gnostics take Christian truths and pervert them.

Hi HeRose, it is a sad day when a Christian is criticized for standing up for Jesus, and the True Gospel. I did not know exactly how far AngelFrog would go to defend her gnostic belief's but I am very grateful that I can take a stand for Jesus. Thank you for bringing clarity to this issue.

I hope some will see the deception that is being played out here on this public forum.

God bless you!

Pneumatic, or Pneumatic's, refers to the spirit or spiritual. Jesus was the Pneumatic Spirit in scriptures.

Gospel of Thomas 70 Scholarly Quotes
F. F. Bruce writes: "This Gnosticizing variant of Saying 41 may refer to the heavenly light, which is the salvation of those who possess it but the destruction of those who lack it." (Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament, p. 140)

Robert M. Grant and David Noel Freedman write: "This is a Gnostic version of the synoptic saying already reproduced in Saying 42 [41]. The Gnostic 'begets' within himself the kingdom or Jesus or light and will be saved by what he begets; the non-Gnostic has nothing and will be killed by this nothing(ness)." (The Secret Sayings of Jesus, p. 174)

Funk and Hoover write: "This saying reminded the Fellows of the gnostic idea that one's salvation depends on possessing - and recognizing in oneself - a piece of the divine, sacred spark, a fragment of the 'light,' which signals one's true origin in the one high God, the ultimate source of other divinities, including the creator God. If one possesses it and recognizes it, salvation is assured (note Thom 24:3, where this same idea is explicit). If one does not possess the divine spark, there is nothing one can do about it. Such a deficiency is alsu alluded to in Thomas 67. Because of the affinities of these ideas with gnostic views and their remoteness from what is otherwise known of Jesus, the Fellows designated the saying black by common consent." (The Five Gospels, p. 513)

Gerd Ludemann writes: "Thomas's formulation is dualistic. It is a matter of life (= salvation) and death. Salvation is manifestly connected with knowledge of one's own self, one's heavenly origin, which is light. Otherwise, if the knowledge is not attained, the result is death." (Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 626)