What is the meaning of Hebrews 4?

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Shamah

Shamah

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#121
Jan 6, 2018
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#121
Gabriel2020 said:
If you can't show me sabbath rest in christ, then you can't prove your theory.Sabbath has a beginning and end day, and it is holy and observed by God himself.
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Ariel82 said:
The Hebrew word for "rest" is "sabbath"....

Moving the goal post is a logical fallacy.

Resting in Christ isn't a theory. It's a reality for born again believers.
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Nehemiah6 said:
There's no point wasting any more time on this fruitless discussion.
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he is asking a viable question, where is the verse tha says "Jesus is the Sabbath"?

so because that verse does not exist discussion os over?

The rest in the Messiah that the Sabbath represents is in the kingdom...

Revelation 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write:Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!”
 
Shamah

Shamah

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#122
Jan 6, 2018
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#122
the true Sabbath is only in the Messiah I agree, however it starts in the Sabbath millenium...

The MEssiah was born on the 4th millenium, the sun was created in the 4th day... then:

Hosheyah 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to יהוה. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know יהוה. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”

"After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up"

4+3=7...

the 7th "day"

2 Peter 3:8, “But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with יהוה one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

Is this:

Rev 20:4-6, "And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to יהושע and because of the Word of Ylohim, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of YHWH and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#123
Jul 2, 2011
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#123
"Tre resst or peace and all it entails" is in Jesus Christ, however the day designated by Jesus, the Father, as the Day of the Lord or teh Sabbath of the Lord is the one only He has stipulated as such, the Seventh Day after six days of labor.

He has given it as a personal present to us as a reminder of what is to be in the Kingdom with Him.
 
Shamah

Shamah

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#124
Jan 6, 2018
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#124
JaumeJ said:
"Tre resst or peace and all it entails" is in Jesus Christ, however the day designated by Jesus, the Father, as the Day of the Lord or teh Sabbath of the Lord is the one only He has stipulated as such, the Seventh Day after six days of labor.

He has given it as a personal present to us as a reminder of what is to be in the Kingdom with Him.
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A prophectic lesson and rememberance...a weekly reminder of what is coming!

Jeremiah 31:33-34,33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbour, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”

Isayah 66:21-23, “And from them too I shall take for priests – for Lĕwites,” declares יהוה. For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make stand before Me,” declares יהוה, “so your seed and your name shall stand. And it shall be that from New moon to New moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה. "
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#125
Jul 2, 2011
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#125
It is ver y importan to hear God from the beginning on this subject. He swore the disobedient Hebrews would never enter into His rest, now we must labor to enter into His rest, as is written in the New Testament.

If one talks enough about it making a referenced here and there fromt he written Word, it is an easy way to error.

The Sabbath of God, designated by Him is the Seventh day according to creation, this can never be altered by man.

If people wish to pervert the word, sabbath, to mean only rest, peple are going into human error.

Nothing here is an accusation nor a condemnation, simply a warning not to misuse the Word in the flesh, always hear the Holy spirit and understanding is.
 
Shamah

Shamah

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#126
Jan 6, 2018
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#126
Trust Yah lean not on our own understanding:

Purpose of the Sabbath according to YHWH is to do His will:

Isaiah 58:11-14, “YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.”


Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#127
Jul 2, 2011
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#127
Context may be difficult for some......I will not dispute words. God bless all who are working to enter the rest as is written in the New Testament.
 
E

Embankment

Senior Member
#128
Feb 28, 2017
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#128
For some reason we are discussing the trees and not the forest. Why are we discussing the sabbath ? This passage is not about the sabbath. This passage is about rest from works because we believe Jesus Christ.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#129
Apr 7, 2014
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#129
Embankment said:
For some reason we are discussing the trees and not the forest. Why are we discussing the sabbath ? This passage is not about the sabbath. This passage is about rest from works because we believe Jesus Christ.
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Modern day misguided teachers of the law are obsessed with the sabbath. For believers, our rest in found in Christ. Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

In Hebrews 4:9, we read - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Here the Sabbath rest is the perpetual rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with Jesus Christ, in contrast to keeping the weekly seventh day Sabbath under the law.
 
E

Embankment

Senior Member
#130
Feb 28, 2017
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#130
mailmandan said:
Modern day misguided teachers of the law are obsessed with the sabbath. For believers, our rest in found in Christ. Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

In Hebrews 4:9, we read - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Here the Sabbath rest is the perpetual rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with Jesus Christ, in contrast to keeping the weekly seventh day Sabbath under the law.
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Those folks are well trained in how to hijack a thread.
 
E

Embankment

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#131
Feb 28, 2017
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#131
The sad thing is that these folks are not that ignorant to what a passage like this is really taking about.
So they are deliberately misinterpreting scripture for an agenda.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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#132
I understand Hebrews 4 to be both an encouragement and a warning to not give up. Endure temporary hardship as a good soldier of the cross, for our time of victory and rest is near. I believe that our blood-bought freedom from sin is a type of rest, but I think that the culmination of this rest is our future glorification when we go to the place that Jesus is preparing for us in Heaven.
 
Jewel5712

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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#133
graceNpeace said:
My point is well illustrated in your posts!

You cannot exegete - all you are capable of doing is playing this game of cherry-picking so-called "proof texts" from all over the Bible with no regard to context...
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He posts scriptures not to get peoples view but argue the fact with them that hes "right"...he'll keep posting the scriptures over and ovef again like ge has done in other threads :/
 
Jewel5712

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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#134
Shamah said:
yes and I didn;t say I know t he day or hour, did you even read the post beforecommenting on it? If you did you would have seen this:

after giving us a list of things to look for to KNOW He is "near at the door" He said this:



I take His words seriously, and feel it my duty to watch as He said...

Do you understand the Feast of Trumpets? The day that nonoe can predict exactly when will happen, Yahshua says He will return with the sound of a great Trumpet...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 8:2, "And I saw the seven messengers who stand before Yah, and to them were given seven trumpets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 5:5-6, “And one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. See, the Lion of the tribe of Yehuḏah, the Root of Dawiḏ, overcame to open the scroll and to loosen its seven seals.” And I looked and saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing, as having been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of Yah sent out into all the earth.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!” [/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, “Now, brothers, we do not wish you to be ignorant concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you be sad as others who have no expectation. For if we believe that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]died and rose again, so also Yah shall bring with Him those who sleep in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. For this we say to you by the word of the Master, that we, the living who are left over at the coming of the Master shall in no way go before those who are asleep. Because the Master Himself shall come down from heaven with a shout, with the voice of a chief messenger, and with the trumpet of Yah, and the dead in Messiah shall rise first. Then we, the living who are left over, shall be caught away together with them in the clouds to meet the Master in the air – and so we shall always be with the Master. So, then, encourage one another with these words."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

In Mat 24 Yahshua/Jesus gives a parable of the prototypical Feast of Trumpets as the time of His return.. Again none can exactly predict with 100% accuracy on what day it falls each year that is why "no man know the day or hour"....

yet He says to watch...
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How can you write all this when you dont even believe in the plan of salvation and you believe that God only loves the saved and only SHOWS his love to the saved by chastening them.. Not that God loves all..sent Jesus for ALL to ALL might come to Him and not perish...yeah..remember THAT thread too...yoire doing the same thing here..you have your own preconcieved agenda :/ NOT COOL!
 
Jewel5712

Jewel5712

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#135
Jun 22, 2018
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#135
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen, take this and learn to love others, as god first loved us, and you have found that wonderful rest spoken of in Heb 4.

yet people want to put us under law and place us under the thing the people the law was given to could not do because it was too great a burden
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When Jesus died and Rose from the dead He fufilled the prophecies of the OT so we arent UNDER the law anymore but in order to REALIZE this..Shamah would have to ACKNOWLEGE that Jesus died on the cross and a plan for salvation...and according to other threads..He doesnt and believes Jesus to be a prophet..
 
Jewel5712

Jewel5712

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#136
Jun 22, 2018
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#136
Ariel82 said:
I keep getting the impression you want to make personal ad hominem attacks instead of address the topic...,

Do you believe that Jesus has to come within this 1000 years and he couldn't have come earlier?
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Does the TIMELINE of His return really matter ir should the importance be that WE SHOULD BE READY? The Bible already states we wont know the time so why argue it? We're missing the point..
 
Jewel5712

Jewel5712

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#137
Jun 22, 2018
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#137
Lewiz said:
Somehow....... looking at what scripture he used, and then all those that "liked" your post, I get the funny feeling that shamah has stumbled onto some scripture that makes you just a tad uneasy.

Perhaps because he quoted V1 & some others?

1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

A promise of entering our final rest, yet we can still miss it?

That's bad for freegrace theology & OSAS.
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Not the VERSES that make us uneasy ..his own AGENDA and false interpretation of it like hes made in other threads..
 
Jewel5712

Jewel5712

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#138
Jun 22, 2018
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#138
Shamah said:
there is a difference between committing sin and being driven by sin.

All people sin, those in Messiah are not driven by sin/sin does not rule over them.

All people sin/transgress the Law that is not done away:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

here is one exapmple of sin and living a life of sin:

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin* (#G266), transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*#G266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin* (#G264), but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*#G264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin

notice the difference between that word "sin " ([FONT=Times New Roman, serif]hamartian: to sin)[/FONT] and this word "iniquity" (anomia: to be without Law)

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me; Master! Master! will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Master! Master! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practiceiniquity.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]practice” is word #G2038 Strong's Concordance - ergazomai: I work, trade, do, Original Word: ἐργάζομαι, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: ergazomai, Phonetic Spelling: (er-gad'-zom-ahee), Short Definition: I work, trade, do, Definition: I work, trade, perform, do, practice, commit, acquire by labor.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]iniquity” is word #G458 Strong's Concordance - anomia, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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Sinning as in verb/action and TEMPTED to sin?
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#139
Mar 13, 2014
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#139
Jewel5712 said:
Does the TIMELINE of His return really matter ir should the importance be that WE SHOULD BE READY? The Bible already states we wont know the time so why argue it? We're missing the point..
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Besides missing the point some may miss the boat as well.
 
Jewel5712

Jewel5712

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#140
Jun 22, 2018
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#140
Lewiz said:
Do you have something to say besides blasting people?

This is Bible Discussion, so discuss!

If you have this translation, then post it in its proper context..

Otherwise it's just hot air.
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But its NEVER a discussion when someone has an agenda..if someone starts a thread with an open mind and really DOES want peoples views thats one thing..its another when they post a thread to try and CONVINCE others that thier beliefs are WRONG and want them to believe as THEY do....Shamah has proven this over and OVER with his threads...
 
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