NEW PRETRIB RAPTURE EVIDENCE!!!

I am sorry my Brother but that would support post trib rapture, because they came out of the great tribulation.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. Most people assume that this verse means "went through and came out of" but it actually means "did not go through but ESCAPED the Great Tribulation". This is the more logical interpretation since had those Christians gone through the Great Tribulation they would have been judged -- come under God's wrath -- just like the unbelieving and the ungodly. But the Bible is quite clear that Christians are NOT appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation.

Once we understand that (a) the Day of the LORD corresponds to the Great Tribulation and (b) this period of judgments if for those who reject Christ, reject the Gospel, and oppose God, we can be quite certain that that multitude ESCAPED the Great Tribulation.

Not necessarily. Most people assume that this verse means "went through and came out of" but it actually means "did not go through but ESCAPED the Great Tribulation". This is the more logical interpretation since had those Christians gone through the Great Tribulation they would have been judged -- come under God's wrath -- just like the unbelieving and the ungodly. But the Bible is quite clear that Christians are NOT appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation.

Once we understand that (a) the Day of the LORD corresponds to the Great Tribulation and (b) this period of judgments if for those who reject Christ, reject the Gospel, and oppose God, we can be quite certain that that multitude ESCAPED the Great Tribulation.

How do they come to the conclusion that these saints came out before, the great tribulation, because the "coming out" in verse 14 in the Greek is in the present tense, not the past tense.

I am sorry my Brother but that would support post trib rapture, because they came out of the great tribulation. Where a verse like Revelation 3:10 “Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.” Seems to support a pre-trib rapture if you are so inclined to lean towards that view of the rapture.

I will be honest, I see it happening like that, but I do read other Scripture that leans toward a post-trib. So I am open to the Lord gathering His people to Himslef and Him not letting His people suffer the wrath or hour of trail that will come on the world to effect His body of believers.

If they came OUT of great tribulation, it can not be before it happens. You do not come out of a tunnel before or in the middle of the tunnel, but after you come out the other side. Those coming out of great tribulation went through it, and then came out of it on the other side.

It says that while they are in heaven the vial judgements begin.
So,they are there DURING the judgements.

Which is making you argue that 1 thes 4 is not true. You are saying the dead DIDN'T rise first.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is at the end of the age and not a pre-trib rapture. There is no timing mentioned in that passage, none. Pre, mid, post, amil, all use that passage. But there is no timing mentioned in that.

Just like Revelation 4:1. It says John was called up, and the pre-tribs use that to support a pre-trib rapture. John, and only John, not the ekklesia, was called up.

It says the dead IN CHRIST rise first. That is the key. Those from over a thousand years ago.

It makes a powerful statement. It is saying that ONLY SAINTS FROM THE GT ARE IN THE REV 7 GROUP.

That means the general resurrection of 1 thes 4 ,dead in Christ will have had to have been first. (pretrib rapture)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is at the end of the age and not a pre-trib rapture

Just like Revelation 4:1. It says John was called up, and the pre-tribs use that to support a pre-trib rapture. John, and only John, not the ekklesia, was called up.

I agree that THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISE FIRST. So????

Take a fresh look at these verses;

Rev 7;9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Now we know from 1 thes 4 that the dead rise FIRST.

That means these innumerable one HAD TO ARRIVE AFTER THE RAPTURE.
What a heavy revvie. LOL

Here is how verses 13-14 read in the ESV “Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?”14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

How do they come to the conclusion that these saints came out before, the great tribulation, because the "coming out" in verse 14 in the Greek is in the present tense, not the past tense. There are some that believe that since it is in the present tense that it could be all that come out of great tribulation, but the problem is the definite article which makes it, the great tribulation of which there is only one. In chapter 3 it is called the, "hour of trial" that is coming on the whole world, notice it is coming, at this point it has not yet come.

What is it that they use to make it those that have escaped the great tribulation from verse 14 in chapter 7?

The Very verses you use destroy the pre-tribulation rapture belief..

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If they came out of the great tribulation then they where once in the great tribulation And if they where in the great tribulation then they where not raptured out of the world before the great tribulation started..

Therefore No pre - Tribulation rapture....

I agree that THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISE FIRST. So????

Revelation 6:11 when did they get there?