Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101
Dec 12, 2013
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#101
Pilkington said:
If we have been saved, I agree with you that we can not become worse than we were before. I think sometimes we forgot that over time through the work of the Holy Spirit we become more like Jesus. The difficulty can be that we become more aware and more sensitive to our own sinfulness. We also forget thatwe and others have been on a journey and loose sight on where we have come from and what we and they wre like.
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Absolutely agree....the more time we spend with Jesus the more wicked we see ourselves in the flesh....there is no good thing in this fallen body of sin....It is the spirit that has been born again of incorruptible seed!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#102
Dec 12, 2013
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#102
HisHolly said:
I just posted this in another... Abraham believed was Counted righteousness then did a work to show or prove his faith... Circumcisions.. You can't throw out works.. they prove your faith
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Abraham had faith LONG before he got whacked......and no one who believes in grace dia faith that I know of disagrees that a tree will bear fruit......! Paul--->Justified before GOD by faith....our faith seen before MEN by works!<---James
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

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#103
Jan 7, 2015
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#103
Is there a problem with this thread?

Is anyone differentiating between work of the law (Judiasism), fleshly works, and righteous works, a result of being changed by God?
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Ah, you make a very good point, as this point also exposes the false grace doctrine. The false grace message says sin (works of the flesh) still has dominion over you when you are born again of the Spirit and under grace.

But the true grace message says when you are born again of the Spirit and truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you.

So when they say works do not matter, they also include the works of the flesh=sin in the whole mix of works as those that do not matter.

Sin is a work people, and sin does matter, that is also why Jesus came and was crucified. :)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#104
Dec 12, 2013
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#104
mailmandan said:
Amen! I've heard works-salvationists attempt to explain Ephesians 2:8,9 away by interpreting it as such:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith (and good works, just not works of the law) and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9 not by "those" works (works of the law) so that no one can boast (but by these works/good works). Which of course is bogus. Good works cannot be dissected from the moral aspect of the law.
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Kind of like an Aunt Aunties pretzel.......twist away or maybe a cinnamon twist doughnut.....The bible is clear......when can one ever do a good enough work to save yourself, much less keep you saved....it is beyond ignorant to think your works can keep you saved if they cannot save you to begin with....

Our righteousnesses are as FILTHY RAGS and our iniquities like the wind have taken us away.
There is NOT a JUST man upon the earth that DOES GOOD and SINS NOT......

it is pure absurdity to believe your works can save you or keep you saved in light of the above...not to mention ANY BIBLICAL work that comes from a believer is JESUS doing the work through them.........
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#105
Dec 12, 2013
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#105
eternally-gratefull said:

Yes you can throw out works. Unless you think God can not know our faith, God does not need proof, We may, But God does not.

That passage said Abraham was declared righteous (saved) before he did one work.

The work was a natural response to faith. Not an addendum to faith to help his get saved.
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Abraham believed God and it was put to his account as righteousness....and
Abraham our father was justified by faith without the deeds of the law......

Again there is a before God and before MEN element....before God it is all faith Paul said in Romans....before MEN our faith is SEEN by our works James said......it is not that difficult to see nor figure out....!
 
Spurgeoncy

Spurgeoncy

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#106
Dec 13, 2016
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#106
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#107
Dec 12, 2013
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#107
Pilkington said:
Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Any good deeds I do flow out of my salvation.

Ephesisians 2: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


Any good deeds I do are as a result of my salvation and in no way can they earn me salvation. Anything I do is out of loving gratitude to God.
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AMEN to that...that is why God deserves ALL the glory dia JESUS....He did the work through us...end of story.....the glory of the works belong to JESUS......
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

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#108
Aug 15, 2009
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#108
Utah said:
Are you producing love with your posts?

If not, you should examine the heart of your fruit.
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I can't believe you fixed YOUR mouth to say that.:rolleyes:
 
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#109
Dec 12, 2013
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#109
mailmandan said:
Amen! Faith is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works.
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Another correct interpretation of scripture......Not of works lest ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST......it blows my mind that the workers for cannot figure out that JESUS gets ALL the glory and WHY.....NO MAN can BOAST of ANY GOOD WORK as part of salvation and or keeping salvation.....IT IS ALL JESUS........
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#110
Nov 22, 2015
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#110
dcontroversal said:
Kind of like an Aunt Aunties pretzel.......twist away or maybe a cinnamon twist doughnut.....The bible is clear......when can one ever do a good enough work to save yourself, much less keep you saved....it is beyond ignorant to think your works can keep you saved if they cannot save you to begin with....

Our righteousnesses are as FILTHY RAGS and our iniquities like the wind have taken us away.
There is NOT a JUST man upon the earth that DOES GOOD and SINS NOT......

it is pure absurdity to believe your works can save you or keep you saved in light of the above...not to mention ANY BIBLICAL work that comes from a believer is JESUS doing the work through them.........
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Amen...

Would we say that feeding the hungry would be a righteous deed? I would say - Yes.

Does that righteous deed done by a sinner make them righteous? No - only the blood of Jesus makes us righteous and receiving the gift of righteousness.

Works-based mindsets have a very hard time with this "deeds of righteousness" thing because they firmly believe their righteousness is based on what they do.

When we finally see that righteousness is a gift from Christ - then our minds will be free to see the light of the glorious gospel of the grace of God and then we will bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace of God towards them.

Works-based mindsets always condemn others that don't measure up to "their righteousness" but the grace and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ cries out "You are forgiven and I have made you the righteousness of God in Me."

We all need to repent and believe the gospel just like Jesus said in Mark 1:15....it's not called "good news" for no reason.

whichoftheseisgoodnews.jpg

 
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HisHolly

Guest
#111
#111
Since this is your thread I'll just say I worked to communicate what I was saying.. if I was off your topic, I apologise..
dcontroversal said:
Abraham had faith LONG before he got whacked......and no one who believes in grace dia faith that I know of disagrees that a tree will bear fruit......! Paul--->Justified before GOD by faith....our faith seen before MEN by works!<---James
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#112
Dec 12, 2013
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#112
HisHolly said:
We know them by what they produce, if you produce nothing, then.... You're all talk
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How long does it take for an apple tree to bear fruit? Is it not an apple tree the first two or three years before it bears?

Or...did not Jesus teach that sometimes a tree may not bear a few years and needs the ground to be cultivated a bit and fertilizer applied to make it yield?

Your hard fast rule as applied has a few exceptions.........just saying!
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#113
Aug 15, 2009
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#113
There's a BIG difference between works getting salvation & works necessary to maintain salvation. The latter comes as a result of being changed & empowered by God. We can't boast of those, either.:)
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#114
#114
Stephen63 said:
There's a BIG difference between works getting salvation & works necessary to maintain salvation. The latter comes as a result of being changed & empowered by God. We can't boast of those, either.:)
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And there it is. Works to "maintain" salvation IS works for salvation. :rolleyes:
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#115
Nov 22, 2015
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#115
As we have received Christ by grace through faith - that is the same way we grow in Him.

Colossians 2:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#116
Nov 22, 2015
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#116
FreeNChrist said:
And there it is. Works to "maintain" salvation IS works for salvation. :rolleyes:
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The problem with works-based mindset is that they see the warning scriptures about walking in the flesh and the consequences that come from that while on this earth and they "perceive" because of religious church teachings it means that people lose their salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity.

This type of mind set does not know the love and grace that God has towards us and that He has made certain that "it is finished" by the work of His Son so that we could be with our loving Father and Lord for all eternity.

 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#118
Aug 15, 2009
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#118
FreeNChrist said:
And there it is. Works to "maintain" salvation IS works for salvation. :rolleyes:
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And there it is..... another calculated lie to boost oneself up by tearing another down..... Just like the one who "liked" it.

Maintaining comes after God saves us, not before.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#119
Aug 15, 2009
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#119
Grace777x70 said:
The problem with works-based mindset is that they see the warning scriptures about walking in the flesh and the consequences that come from that while on this earth and they "perceive" because of religious church teachings it means that people lose their salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity.

This type of mind set does not know the love and grace that God has towards us and that He has made certain that "it is finished" by the work of His Son so that we could be with our loving Father and Lord for all eternity.
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So, again you're saying we're not saved, aren't you?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#120
Dec 12, 2013
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#120
LaurenTM said:
I can only surmise that those who insist works play a part, must either not have a clear understanding of scripture or they have a guilty conscience that no amount of works will ever expunge

the Bible CLEARLY states that all our righteousness is a filthy rags...as already been provided for in a couple of posts

the works that follow should come about by the Holy Spirit and not our efforts...the world does plenty of good works and yet they are not saved if they do not know Christ

clearly, there is some foggy thinking going on....
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All I know is when Adam sinned who killed the animals, shed blood, made the skins into wearable clothes and COVERED ADAM's shame....it was God......the entire process and work is done dia the power of God and God thru Jesus....ALL glory goes to God and that is why works will never justify before GOD......to believe that our works justify before God is akin to saying that GOD justifies HIMSELF before HIMSELF......or states that WHAT God has done through us in not by the power of God or by God but by human merit and effort......
 
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