Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit

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CS1

CS1

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#1
May 23, 2012
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#1
I would like to have a biblical Discussion on these two topic. without insults , false narratives , and strawmen created by both side for and against the subject. I would like to cover both what I think the bible and much study i have done over the many years. You do not have to agree with me but, I would like for you all to please provide contextual meaning to your response. If this is not possiable then you are free not to post. I accept all questions anyone will ask but I will not hear rudness or insults .

Baptisim of Holy Spirit :
I would like to study the powerful experience for the super natural growth on the "church" in the apostolic and post-apostolic ages of the "church". Which has been the principal cause of mighty revivals that have swept the world since the turn of the 20th century. I am not suggesting, teaching, or attempting to exalt the baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts HE gives to the "Church" above the Redemptive Work of Christ. The # 1 Work of the Holy Spirit is exalting Christ (John 3:16).

the greatest promise to the World is " whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life". but the greatest promise to the "Church" is: "But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you" (Acts 1:8)

The Baptizer in the Holy Spirit is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ

The Holy Spirit is what empowers the "Church".

What the baptism of the Holy Spirit is NOT:

1. It is not " The Second Definite Work of Grace" I have heard some use this term but I have not seen it in the bible nor have more qualfied teachers than I. If there is second then maybe a 3rd or 4th too? I believe in the continual growth in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Pet 3:18)

2. it is not the Second Blessing again if there is a second why not a 3rd or 4th? I do not believe this to be a biblical expression used in the bible.
3. it is not Sanctification That is long topic and I will just say that right now but "Sanctification" is part of the Chritians daily
life. (LV 27:14)
4. it is not the New Birth The Baptisim with the Holy Spirit is subsequent to, and distinct from , The Lords Regenerative Work.

"The Baptisim with the Holy Spirit" the scriptural name for the Holy Spirit coming into the lives of men & women who are Christians .Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Acts 1:5 The name of this expireance in the Bible as a normitive is " The Baptisim with the Holy Ghost/Spirit".

The apostles were converted under the ministry of Jesus (John 1:35-50; Luke 10:20; John 13:10,11 15:3) they were told to wait (tarry) and were instantly filled with the Spirit about two years later (luke 24:49;Acts 1:13,14; 2:1-4)
The samaritans Acts 8:5-8,12 Acts 8:14-17 records thier expirence
The 12 men at Ephesus who were believers Acts 19:2

Some teach and believe that the Holy Spirit was poured out once for all on the Day of Pentecost, and we not expect nothing more. The prophecy of joel has been fulfilled. But is that what happened?

Peter in quoting Joel 2:29, did not say: "Now is fulfilled that which was spoken by the prophet Joel".

If he had, there would be nothing more to expect. The prophecy would be fulfilled. But What Peter did say:
"This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" Peter than explained this promise was for all men and women not just those in the upper room.

I will stop here and pick up soon give time for questions and comments
 
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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I have a question.

Why do you say the baptism of Holy Spirit is not a second work of blessing or grace?

The feasts of the OT actually portray the work of Holy Spirit in our lives, do they not?

and this scripture about sanctification....

not meaning to to be argumentative....discuss is a great word.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
 
zone

zone

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Jun 13, 2010
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CS1 said:
Baptisim of Holy Spirit :
I would like to study the powerful experience for the super natural growth on the "church" in the apostolic and post-apostolic ages of the "church". Which has been the principal cause of mighty revivals that have swept the world since the turn of the 20th century. I am not suggesting, teaching, or attempting to exalt the baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts HE gives to the "Church" above the Redemptive Work of Christ. The # 1 Work of the Holy Spirit is exalting Christ (John 3:16).....
Click to expand...
what's lost in the revival (Methodism) narratives is that the districts covered by the revivals were shortly thereafter "burned over" by sin and global unbelief.

contemporaries to Finney's revival aftermath said it would be generations before the gospel might flourish there again.

just because men develop methods with which to call men to the "anxious bench"/repentance doesn't mean what takes place is some huge miraculous work of God. it's the fruit afterwards that tells.

just look at things like the Pensacola "revival"; Brownsville; Toronto, etc <<-- what do we do with monster movements like them that were so full of unbiblical stuff
 
zone

zone

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Jun 13, 2010
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CS1 said:
the greatest promise to the World is " whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life". but the greatest promise to the "Church" is: "But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you" (Acts 1:8)
Click to expand...
??
Acts 1:8 spoken only to the ones who were there that day at Pentecost.
they received supernatural gifts in order to validate the accompanying message - proof, as it were.
 
Blain

Blain

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Aug 28, 2012
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I saw cs1 made a thread and was like WOW I gotta see this:D
In my opinion the holy spirit is the effect of the cause. I am a strong believer of cause and effect and just from my own experience the holy spirit was the effect of the cause( me choosing to follow Christ) He is not however something that we can use for our desires he is not a genie.

The actual baptism of the holy spirit with the apostles was not a one time thing true enough you never hear of fiery tongues when people accept Christ but the holy spirit is given to all who accept Christ and the evidence of him is more internal than anything. When you see people hunger for God and people who love to discuss and talk about God or when you see people growing in maturity and faith this is the fruits of the spirit that is spoken of.

I wouldn't call him the second work of blessings and grace rather he is the work of blessings and grace. And you are correct in saying that the apostles were saved before Pentecost after all when Jesus asked Peter who he thought he was and Peter replied he was the Christ Jesus said it was the holy spirit that revealed this to him
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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zone said:
??
Acts 1:8 spoken only to the ones who were there that day at Pentecost.
they received supernatural gifts in order to validate the accompanying message - proof, as it were.
Click to expand...
This can't be true, since the Apostles laid hands on others and they received Holy Spirit too. Even those without hands laid on them.


CS1 You got your work cut out for you on this thread. Lol

pray much!
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#7
May 17, 2013
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CS1 said:
I would like to have a biblical Discussion on these two topic. without insults , false narratives , and strawmen created by both side for and against the subject. I would like to cover both what I think the bible and much study i have done over the many years. You do not have to agree with me but, I would like for you all to please provide contextual meaning to your response. If this is not possiable then you are free not to post. I accept all questions anyone will ask but I will not hear rudness or insults .

Baptisim of Holy Spirit :
I would like to study the powerful experience for the super natural growth on the "church" in the apostolic and post-apostolic ages of the "church". Which has been the principal cause of mighty revivals that have swept the world since the turn of the 20th century. I am not suggesting, teaching, or attempting to exalt the baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts HE gives to the "Church" above the Redemptive Work of Christ. The # 1 Work of the Holy Spirit is exalting Christ (John 3:16).

the greatest promise to the World is " whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life". but the greatest promise to the "Church" is: "But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you" (Acts 1:8)

The Baptizer in the Holy Spirit is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ

The Holy Spirit is what empowers the "Church".

What the baptism of the Holy Spirit is NOT:

1. It is not " The Second Definite Work of Grace" I have heard some use this term but I have not seen it in the bible nor have more qualfied teachers than I. If there is second then maybe a 3rd or 4th too? I believe in the continual growth in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Pet 3:18)

2. it is not the Second Blessing again if there is a second why not a 3rd or 4th? I do not believe this to be a biblical expression used in the bible.
3. it is not Sanctification That is long topic and I will just say that right now but "Sanctification" is part of the Chritians daily
life. (LV 27:14)
4. it is not the New Birth The Baptisim with the Holy Spirit is subsequent to, and distinct from , The Lords Regenerative Work.

"The Baptisim with the Holy Spirit" the scriptural name for the Holy Spirit coming into the lives of men & women who are Christians .Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Acts 1:5 The name of this expireance in the Bible as a normitive is " The Baptisim with the Holy Ghost/Spirit".

The apostles were converted under the ministry of Jesus (John 1:35-50; Luke 10:20; John 13:10,11 15:3) they were told to wait (tarry) and were instantly filled with the Spirit about two years later (luke 24:49;Acts 1:13,14; 2:1-4)
The samaritans Acts 8:5-8,12 Acts 8:14-17 records thier expirence
The 12 men at Ephesus who were believers Acts 19:2

Some teach and believe that the Holy Spirit was poured out once for all on the Day of Pentecost, and we not expect nothing more. The prophecy of joel has been fulfilled. But is that what happened?

Peter in quoting Joel 2:29, did not say: "Now is fulfilled that which was spoken by the prophet Joel".

If he had, there would be nothing more to expect. The prophecy would be fulfilled. But What Peter did say:
"This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" Peter than explained this promise was for all men and women not just those in the upper room.

I will stop here and pick up soon give time for questions and comments
Click to expand...
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the regenerative action of God in saving a soul from its sin. Titus 3:5 I f we look at John 20 we see Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit upon the disciples. This is the point at which the risen Christ regenerates the disciples, the point at which they are made new creatures in Christ. 2 Cor 5:21

Acts 1 is the filling of the Holy Spirit not a baptism. There is one baptism and many fillings. Belief is followed by baptism. Baptism is followed by fillings to suffice in situations to minister for the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Passover explains the blood of the Cross covering sin.

Pentecost - the power of God Himself within to purge or sanctify one, and to witness of Him to the world.

Tabernacles- Glory- the fullness of the Spirit that the creation is groaning to see.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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#9
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the regenerative action of God in saving a soul from its sin. Titus 3:5 I f we look at John 20 we see Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit upon the disciples. This is the point at which the risen Christ regenerates the disciples, the point at which they are made new creatures in Christ. 2 Cor 5:21

Not many see the action of Jesus breathing His Spirit upon the disciples but I don't agree with your interpretation of the happening. This is regeneration, true, but not the baptism of Holy Spirit. Here after the disciples had repented of no believing Jesus would rise again, they received the Spirit of Christ that Paul said without this none belong to Him.


Acts 1 is the filling of the Holy Spirit not a baptism. There is one baptism and many fillings. Belief is followed by baptism. Baptism is followed by fillings to suffice in situations to minister for the Lord.

No, this was the moment the Comforter came into the world and descended on the believers. Whelmed the Greek says. The moment the living water within is released. Anointing.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Here is Graham Cookes Challenge to the Church (Blain you will love it)


thank you
 
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notuptome

notuptome

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May 17, 2013
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Not Acts 1 but Acts 2. My mistake.

Ac 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Filled not baptized.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Blain

Blain

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Aug 28, 2012
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#12
[/QUOTE]

you were right i did love this XD but word of advice a wall of words is strain for the eyes

thank you
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stephen63

Stephen63

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Aug 15, 2009
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zone said:
what's lost in the revival (Methodism) narratives is that the districts covered by the revivals were shortly thereafter "burned over" by sin and global unbelief.

contemporaries to Finney's revival aftermath said it would be generations before the gospel might flourish there again.

just because men develop methods with which to call men to the "anxious bench"/repentance doesn't mean what takes place is some huge miraculous work of God. it's the fruit afterwards that tells.

just look at things like the Pensacola "revival"; Brownsville; Toronto, etc <<-- what do we do with monster movements like them that were so full of unbiblical stuff
Click to expand...
Now, you're saying EVERY revival, including the Welsh revival, ended up the same way, right?

Would you believe I agree with you? I do, but not for the same reasons.

Go back to when Jesus was preaching & teaching. The crowds thronged Him. Thousands followed Him from place to place. There was joy in the cities He went to. But how long did that last? 3 years. Many of the SAME people that cried Hosanna! also cried "Crucify Him!"

Not every person at Jesus' meetings were saved. MANY were not.

What happened after Jesus' ministry? Herod killed James, & reached for Peter. Saul was breathing threats at the church, putting them in prison. Jerusalem was overtaken with poverty. Thousands were still being saved, but the "revival stories" as a whole vanished.

Paul proclaimed:
25“And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face. 26“Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27“For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. 28“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29“I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31“Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

After Timothy left Ephesus I think is when Ephesus got into trouble in Revelation.

In EVERY circumstance, after marvelous moves of the Holy Spirit Satan came in & wrecked havok on the new believers.

Pennsicola? The leaders pushed past the Holy Spirit when He was done to "keep it going", & shipwrecked it. The other one up north? Fake, all the way.

All those real revivals when they were over were spiritually attacked the same way the early church was, except the circumstances were different.

ANY time God does a great work, EXPECT Satan to come in behind it & destroy it.

Goodness, look at what happened to Israel after Solomon became king. The smoke of God's glory filled the Temple so great the priests ran out. But before Solomon was dead, Israel was on the brink of civil war, & then split to fight each other for generations.
 
CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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stonesoffire said:
I have a question.

Why do you say the baptism of Holy Spirit is not a second work of blessing or grace?

The feasts of the OT actually portray the work of Holy Spirit in our lives, do they not?

and this scripture about sanctification....

not meaning to to be argumentative....discuss is a great word.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Click to expand...

Hi Stonesoffire:

The reason why is because the term is not in the bible. And if there is a second why not a 3rd or more?
The toplogies of the bible do not replaces the actual or literal move of God s Spirit.
I do not want to get on the topic of Elect
 
CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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zone said:
what's lost in the revival (Methodism) narratives is that the districts covered by the revivals were shortly thereafter "burned over" by sin and global unbelief.

contemporaries to Finney's revival aftermath said it would be generations before the gospel might flourish there again.

just because men develop methods with which to call men to the "anxious bench"/repentance doesn't mean what takes place is some huge miraculous work of God. it's the fruit afterwards that tells.

just look at things like the Pensacola "revival"; Brownsville; Toronto, etc <<-- what do we do with monster movements like them that were so full of unbiblical stuff
Click to expand...
I am not sure what your point is Zone
however, there is no revival witout the Holy Spirit finney's method or any other for that matter worked because the Holy Spirit was involved with the Word of God proclaimed. Right now I would like to focus what the Bible says about the " Baptism of the Holy Spirit we can address those who are in error later .
 
CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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zone said:
??
Acts 1:8 spoken only to the ones who were there that day at Pentecost.
they received supernatural gifts in order to validate the accompanying message - proof, as it were.
Click to expand...
context of the full chapters which includes chatper 2 were Peter said this was that spken and who it was promised to.
 
CS1

CS1

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Thank you Blain,

I do not want to mis-understand you but the reason why I am not a strong believer of the cause and effects from ones own persoanl expirence even how wonderful and great they maybe, many do not or will not see it as from God unless we can show them Biblically. The issue many times Blain and I have to say with those who do not see the Baptism of the Holy and empowering who Jesus Himself is the "baptizer will make our point at least the one I beleive God has given me from His word ; not accepted. We must be people of the word . The " term Second Blessing, second Working are not terms found in the bible they are concepts I do not see supported in the bible :0
 
CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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notuptome said:
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the regenerative action of God in saving a soul from its sin. Titus 3:5 I f we look at John 20 we see Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit upon the disciples. This is the point at which the risen Christ regenerates the disciples, the point at which they are made new creatures in Christ. 2 Cor 5:21

Acts 1 is the filling of the Holy Spirit not a baptism. There is one baptism and many fillings. Belief is followed by baptism. Baptism is followed by fillings to suffice in situations to minister for the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...

that is your opinon but the context of Acts Collectivly after Jesus had already saved the deciples and commanding them to wait after Jesus Breathed on them (John 20:22)


are we not saved the same way as they? and are we not promised the Holy Spirit empowerment as they were? Yes :)
 
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CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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stonesoffire said:
Passover explains the blood of the Cross covering sin.

Pentecost - the power of God Himself within to purge or sanctify one, and to witness of Him to the world.

Tabernacles- Glory- the fullness of the Spirit that the creation is groaning to see.
Click to expand...
Please remember the recorded working of the Spirit of God in both OLD and NEW Testaments do not leave us doubt as to what the Spirit of God has done Topologies’ are subject to interpretation I am not saying you are wrong but to explain the Working of the Holy Spirit Typologies are not the best
 
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peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

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Feb 21, 2012
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zone said:
??
Acts 1:8 spoken only to the ones who were there that day at Pentecost.
they received supernatural gifts in order to validate the accompanying message - proof, as it were.
Click to expand...
In the first sermon by Peter after being filled with the gift of holy spirit - (Acts 2:33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received the promise of the Father the promise of holy spirit, he hath shed forth this, which you now see and hear.

Just as John the Baptist said he would - There comes one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the holy spirit. (Mark 1:7,8)

And is promised to everyone who: Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the holy spirit. For the promise is unto you and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:38)

ONE gift with nine manifestations of that one gift given to every believer for profit - 1 Cor. 12:7
 
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