It seems like Isaiah is talking about the end times and the earths destruction, yet God is supposed to punish the powers in heaven in NIV, or in Gods Word translation he will punish the armies in heaven. What armies can they be talking about? I understood that Satan was thrown out with his minions when, or shortly after, Jesus ascended after His crucifixion. Who would that leave to be punished or am I getting the time frames wrong?
Who or what are the powers in Heaven that God will punish in Isaiah 24:21?
- Thread starter Crustyone
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" ...the Lord shall punish them; they shall be reserved to the day of execution, as condemned prisoners are, and as fallen angels are reserved in chains of darkness to the judgment of the great day, ... " Matthew Henry Commentary.
Jude v. 6: "6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day"
But that isn't all...
The is (ongoing) warfare in 'heavenly places'....
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:10-11
There is more than one 'heaven'.
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. (2 Corinithians 12:2)
We are blessed in 'heavenly places'.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places". (Ephesion 1:3)
God dwells in the 'highest heaven'
“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you; how much less this house that I have built!" (1 Kings 8:2)
“Is not God high in the heavens?
See the highest stars, how lofty they are!" (Job 22:12)
The coming King, Jesus, comes in the name of the Lord (glory in the highest)
"Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” (Luke 19:38)
(Note: 'highest' (Greek: hupsistos), i.e. (masculine singular) the Supreme (God), or (neuter plural) the heavens:--most high)
Keep wondering!
Or is that, living in the wonder of it all?
Jude v. 6: "6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day"
But that isn't all...
The is (ongoing) warfare in 'heavenly places'....
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:10-11
There is more than one 'heaven'.
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. (2 Corinithians 12:2)
We are blessed in 'heavenly places'.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places". (Ephesion 1:3)
God dwells in the 'highest heaven'
“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you; how much less this house that I have built!" (1 Kings 8:2)
“Is not God high in the heavens?
See the highest stars, how lofty they are!" (Job 22:12)
The coming King, Jesus, comes in the name of the Lord (glory in the highest)
"Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” (Luke 19:38)
(Note: 'highest' (Greek: hupsistos), i.e. (masculine singular) the Supreme (God), or (neuter plural) the heavens:--most high)
Keep wondering!
Or is that, living in the wonder of it all?
Important to keep the subject flow, which defines the timing that's for:
Isa 24:19-23
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
What timing is that above? When is God's consuming fire to devour man's works ("elements" of 2 Pet.3:10) off this earth? At the end of this world on the "day of the Lord" is when, which is when our Lord Jesus returns.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
The Living Bible has that phrase as the fallen angels. I'm inclined to agree. See Book of Jude about them being kept in chains until the judgement of the great day (GWT Judgment at end of Rev.20). The reference to heaven is about their abode in hell, which is in the heavenly dimension. (see Rev.12:7-8)
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Both of those groups will be gathered together in the pit prison, and held there until the end of Christ's Millennium reign.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
KJV
Isa 24:19-23
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
What timing is that above? When is God's consuming fire to devour man's works ("elements" of 2 Pet.3:10) off this earth? At the end of this world on the "day of the Lord" is when, which is when our Lord Jesus returns.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
The Living Bible has that phrase as the fallen angels. I'm inclined to agree. See Book of Jude about them being kept in chains until the judgement of the great day (GWT Judgment at end of Rev.20). The reference to heaven is about their abode in hell, which is in the heavenly dimension. (see Rev.12:7-8)
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Both of those groups will be gathered together in the pit prison, and held there until the end of Christ's Millennium reign.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
KJV
It would make sense if the angels were thrown into a Hell of Heaven, but Rev. 12:7-8 says that they were thrown down to earth and Isaiah 24:21 says that there were the host of the high ones that are on high and it mentions separately the kings of the earth. Two different places, but as I was writing this I hope that I realized my error. I was thinking that the verse was speaking of the fallen ones still being on high, but I think that it is speaking of the fallen angels on earth having been the host of the high ones that are on high. That makes sense to me. Thank you for making me think it through. I find myself reading on the surface level without the deeper meaning.
(Thanks for posting the Scripture, C-Note. )
This verse is talking specifically concerning "powers and principalities of darkness", as well as "spiritual wickedness in high places", and more generally, in the "writers'" inferences to the (attemped/alluded) "Overthrow" of Our Fathers' throne. Also, translated as: "Katabol". Which is still going on, even as we speak. Imagine there are some that would in the "practicing" of Christianity, and keeping the "lid" down on their "God box", might liken this to the coming (at the time this was writ) Messiah, and they would not be wrong, but, in no wise have the bigger picture.
)This verse is talking specifically concerning "powers and principalities of darkness", as well as "spiritual wickedness in high places", and more generally, in the "writers'" inferences to the (attemped/alluded) "Overthrow" of Our Fathers' throne. Also, translated as: "Katabol". Which is still going on, even as we speak. Imagine there are some that would in the "practicing" of Christianity, and keeping the "lid" down on their "God box", might liken this to the coming (at the time this was writ) Messiah, and they would not be wrong, but, in no wise have the bigger picture.
I believe it is talking about the end times and the judgment before the thousand year reign of Christ on earth. In Isaiah the Lord is speaking of the haughty of the earth, those who are lifted up in their own hearts and minds exalting themselves above the knowledge of God. These kings of the earth are influenced by spirit powers and Principalities (evil angels) on high, powers of darkness and spiritual wickedness by them is working in the world and in the kings of the earth.
But yes, Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven down to earth right after Christ ascended, so the l believe the language is symbolic of those who exalted themselves and their thrones above the stars of heaven, so to speak.
Compare the wording in Isaiah....[SUP]21 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited."
Now compare to Daniel 7...
[SUP]12 [/SUP]As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Notice the wording of casting down thrones in Daniel [SUP]9 [/SUP]I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."
And the timing of this event is confirmed as the first judgment seen in the next verse here in Daniel [SUP]10 [/SUP]A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."
Those kings and peoples who have their lives prolonged for a season and a time, and who shall be visited after many days is sown in scripture as the nations of Gog and Magog.
Ezekiel 38:16
And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
Revelation 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
But yes, Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven down to earth right after Christ ascended, so the l believe the language is symbolic of those who exalted themselves and their thrones above the stars of heaven, so to speak.
Compare the wording in Isaiah....[SUP]21 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited."
Now compare to Daniel 7...
[SUP]12 [/SUP]As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Notice the wording of casting down thrones in Daniel [SUP]9 [/SUP]I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."
And the timing of this event is confirmed as the first judgment seen in the next verse here in Daniel [SUP]10 [/SUP]A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."
Those kings and peoples who have their lives prolonged for a season and a time, and who shall be visited after many days is sown in scripture as the nations of Gog and Magog.
Ezekiel 38:16
And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
Revelation 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
In my attempt in answering your question, I must look at the whole chapter, not just one verse in it; looking at the previous and after chapters also helps.
1. First, the same word for Earth in Hebrew or Greek can be translated as Land. Please make that a consideration.
2. In verse 13 it states "It shall be like the shaking of an olive tree,". Using the bible to interpret the bible, who or what is represented by an olive tree? See Jeremiah 11:16, Romans 11:16 (inspired numbering, I doubt it but interesting nevertheless).
Jeremiah 11:16
16 The Lord called your name,
Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit.
With the noise of a great tumult
He has kindled fire on it,
And its branches are broken.
Romans 11:16-17 [Paul, knowing His OT, picks up on this]
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
3) Also in verse 13 we have, "Like the gleaning of grapes when the vintage is done", remember the passage about how God plants a vineyard and expected it to product good grapes, read Isaiah 5 (too much to post, the vineyard and grapes are Israel.
4) In verse 23 it says, "For the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem" Jesus ruling from Mount Zion /Jerusalem now, He is ruling from heaven and the Church is the true Mount Zion and Jerusalem. Sounds ridiculous to most of you I'm sure, but not according to Paul who calls the heavenly Jerusalem our mother (Galatians 4:26), and the author of Hebrews who tells the first believers this (Hebrews 12) "22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things thanthat of Abel."
But you've all been taught the reign of Christ will be exactly a 1000 years with Christ physically reigning on earth where everything is hunky-dory. But in Psalms 2 and 110 tells us what Christ's reign will be like, the nations will rage against Him, and that He will reign in the midst of His enemies. Most of you think Christ has to reign on a physical throne in Jerusalem, but ignore what Jesus said about His own kingdom, that it's not observed with human eyes, it's in our midst and that His kingdom is not of this world (Luke 17:21, John 18:36). In Luke 17:23 Jesus Himself tells not to look for an earthly reign or kingdom, but the church today predominately tells to look to Israel (the current state of Israel) for fulfillment. Israel is the key, some say. Jesus said not to follow those who do so and I don't!
1. First, the same word for Earth in Hebrew or Greek can be translated as Land. Please make that a consideration.
2. In verse 13 it states "It shall be like the shaking of an olive tree,". Using the bible to interpret the bible, who or what is represented by an olive tree? See Jeremiah 11:16, Romans 11:16 (inspired numbering, I doubt it but interesting nevertheless).
Jeremiah 11:16
16 The Lord called your name,
Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit.
With the noise of a great tumult
He has kindled fire on it,
And its branches are broken.
Romans 11:16-17 [Paul, knowing His OT, picks up on this]
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
3) Also in verse 13 we have, "Like the gleaning of grapes when the vintage is done", remember the passage about how God plants a vineyard and expected it to product good grapes, read Isaiah 5 (too much to post, the vineyard and grapes are Israel.
4) In verse 23 it says, "For the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem" Jesus ruling from Mount Zion /Jerusalem now, He is ruling from heaven and the Church is the true Mount Zion and Jerusalem. Sounds ridiculous to most of you I'm sure, but not according to Paul who calls the heavenly Jerusalem our mother (Galatians 4:26), and the author of Hebrews who tells the first believers this (Hebrews 12) "22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things thanthat of Abel."
But you've all been taught the reign of Christ will be exactly a 1000 years with Christ physically reigning on earth where everything is hunky-dory. But in Psalms 2 and 110 tells us what Christ's reign will be like, the nations will rage against Him, and that He will reign in the midst of His enemies. Most of you think Christ has to reign on a physical throne in Jerusalem, but ignore what Jesus said about His own kingdom, that it's not observed with human eyes, it's in our midst and that His kingdom is not of this world (Luke 17:21, John 18:36). In Luke 17:23 Jesus Himself tells not to look for an earthly reign or kingdom, but the church today predominately tells to look to Israel (the current state of Israel) for fulfillment. Israel is the key, some say. Jesus said not to follow those who do so and I don't!
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Jude describes the fallen angels which were the ones of Gen.6 who went after 'strange flesh' and kept not their estate (i.e., heavenly estate), which was the time of Noah, and those are still kept in chains until the great day. The ones cast down to the earth with the devil at the war in Rev.12:7-9 are other of Satan's angels. And per Rev.12:3-4, one third of the angels rebelled at Satan's original rebellion.
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