Romans 8:29-30 Refuting Calvanism - Free will

[Mediate]

Superdave I can see your point. But if man was not made for Hell, nor for the same purpose of angels, and he is constricted by time in this life of test,

then surely there will be more differences. We do not have the enormous will of angels. not have we seen God's face.

Perhaps the angels were not given the free will and they were damned from the start. Perhaps not.

Perhaps we are the main focus of God's plan and not the damned angels. Perhaps not.

Perhaps humanity is something totally different and we cannot even comprehend it. Perhaps not.

Perhaps knowing God and accepting Him come hand in hand. And some do not have the ability nor resource to truly see God?

But I still maintain that every human asks at one point 'is there more'?

That is the only certainty I have for you. We enquire.

 

[Mediate]

Knock on the door, and he shall answer it.

 

[Mediate]

There's more to all this than just me, you and Jesus.

Our way is through love and compassion and patience and forgiveness. Repentance in Christ and being saved.

But I think there's a higher purpose to it all.

But then that's when life gets too complicated and heavy and you're like 'WOW I need to know'.

So I just try to be like 'I don't want to know all that. I'm happy with 'love thy neighbour'. Thanks God!!

 

[Dude653]

No free will would imply that we are not accountable for our actions

 

[Mediate]

Well, it depends. because we are what we are, free will or not. And, if we are made without free will, to be made to do bad things, then what will be will be and it is meant.

But similarly, if we do have free will, what we do is our choice, and the actions are still meant, and we'll be held responsible. So either way, we are what we are and it's still best not to do any bad stuff.

 

[Mediate]

I mean, clearly though, we do have free will to make daily choices. So this is all hypothetical.

But it makes you wonder; If God knows some are predestined to live lives of sin, why would they be created?

 

[edward99]

Hello Edward,

Do you find it incongruous that angels would be given "free will", and yet man, who was created in the image of God, would be denied this nature?

What I mean by free will here is not the ability of man to find God, or to save himself, or even to know if God exists or his need for Him, but the free will to accept or reject God's free gift when it is made known to him and offered to him.

Hi superdave.
I don't deny man has a will.

I just believe that since the fall, that 'will' in all men is naturally turned away from not only God's will, but intentionally from the knowledge of God's existence.

Man's will is corrupted.

I have no way of knowing what sort of nature angels and cherubim have, nor what their will is in connection to God. But they existed before we did, and they have seen Him and been in His presence. The fact that they have no hope of redemption because they sinned, yet Christ died for us suggests there's a difference (somehow).

The free will to accept the gift when it is offered, well....perhaps we can discuss it.
There are scriptures on both sides of the debate that I wrestle with, to be honest (though not as much as I once did). I like these ones, for example

Romans 2:4
Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and long-suffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance

Acts 9
9 But Saul, yet breathing threatening and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 and asked of him letters to Damascus unto the synagogues, that if he found any that were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, it came to pass that he drew nigh unto Damascus: and suddenly there shone round about him a light out of heaven:
4 and he fell upon the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
6 but rise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.....

Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Ephesians 1:4
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight

Ephesians 1:11
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

 

[superdave5221]

Hi superdave.
I don't deny man has a will.

I just believe that since the fall, that 'will' in all men is naturally turned away from not only God's will, but intentionally from the knowledge of God's existence.

Man's will is corrupted.

I have no way of knowing what sort of nature angels and cherubim have, nor what their will is in connection to God. But they existed before we did, and they have seen Him and been in His presence. The fact that they have no hope of redemption because they sinned, yet Christ died for us suggests there's a difference (somehow).

The free will to accept the gift when it is offered, well....perhaps we can discuss it.
There are scriptures on both sides of the debate that I wrestle with, to be honest (though not as much as I once did). I like these ones, for example

Romans 2:4
Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and long-suffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance

Acts 9
9 But Saul, yet breathing threatening and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 and asked of him letters to Damascus unto the synagogues, that if he found any that were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, it came to pass that he drew nigh unto Damascus: and suddenly there shone round about him a light out of heaven:
4 and he fell upon the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
6 but rise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.....

Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Ephesians 1:4
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight

Ephesians 1:11
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Peter 3: 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance


How is this possible if you are right? Is it not possible that God chose ALL of us for salvation, but yet, because of free will, some will refuse the gift?

Is this not true? Did not Christ die on the cross for ALL of us? Or is Christ's atoning sacrifice not sufficient for all of us?

Matthew 6: 9 "This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Why did Jesus teach us to pray thus? Why are we praying for that which is certain? Isn't God's will always done? Is it God's will that some should be sent to hell? Peter didn't think so. What would keep God's will from being done on the earth? The only thing that I can think of us man's free will, granted to us from God.

Would you believe that in the beginning God selected some to spend eternity in hell, and some to live? And those destined for hell would have no hope in life for redemption? Is this the God that you know?

Genesis 18: 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing--to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Abraham knew God. He knew that he was a righteous God. How will a righteous God judge those who are condemned from the beginning?

And the most important question of all:

How does God force us to love him? If God could force us to love him, then why didn't he force everyone to love him? And if he knew from the beginning who would love him, and who wouldn't, then what is the purpose of life?

Is the purpose of life so that God could send Jesus to die a hideous death on the cross, and then to save only those he had selected from the beginning as if Christ's atonement is insufficient to save ALL people from ALL sins for ALL time?

What did Abraham know about God that perhaps you don't?

 

[edward99]

2 Peter 3: 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

How is this possible if you are right? Is it not possible that God chose ALL of us for salvation, but yet, because of free will, some will refuse the gift?

Is this not true? Did not Christ die on the cross for ALL of us? Or is Christ's atoning sacrifice not sufficient for all of us?

Matthew 6: 9 "This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Why did Jesus teach us to pray thus? Why are we praying for that which is certain? Isn't God's will always done? Is it God's will that some should be sent to hell? Peter didn't think so. What would keep God's will from being done on the earth? The only thing that I can think of us man's free will, granted to us from God.

Would you believe that in the beginning God selected some to spend eternity in hell, and some to live? And those destined for hell would have no hope in life for redemption? Is this the God that you know?

Genesis 18: 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing--to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Abraham knew God. He knew that he was a righteous God. How will a righteous God judge those who are condemned from the beginning?

And the most important question of all:

How does God force us to love him? If God could force us to love him, then why didn't he force everyone to love him? And if he knew from the beginning who would love him, and who wouldn't, then what is the purpose of life?

Is the purpose of life so that God could send Jesus to die a hideous death on the cross, and then to save only those he had selected from the beginning as if Christ's atonement is insufficient to save ALL people from ALL sins for ALL time?

What did Abraham know about God that perhaps you don't?

Hi superdave

Well, I did intend, as I said to discuss and aknowledge both sides of the issue, since the scriptures DO speak to both sides of what we have made into an endless debate. The passages say what they say. I just started with some that unambiguously say God chooses. There are others, I know that. You posted 3 (though only 2 speak to the issue). The scriptures don't contradict, so its we who have not understood - all of us).

But I'm absolutely not into dogmatic proclamations on it from either side - I guess I didn't make that clear.

The free will to accept the gift when it is offered, well....perhaps we can discuss it.
There are scriptures on both sides of the debate that I wrestle with, to be honest (though not as much as I once did). I like these ones, for example

As for Abraham. he was living his life when God called him. So...anyway.

Do you concede that many will go to hell? And that those who are saved are saved by Grace through faith, both GIFTS?

 

[edward99]

Hi superdave

Well, I did intend, as I said to discuss and acknowledge both sides of the issue, since the scriptures DO speak to both sides of what we have made into an endless debate. The passages say what they say. I just started with some that unambiguously say God chooses. There are others, I know that. You posted 3 (though only 2 speak to the issue). The scriptures don't contradict, so its we who have not understood - all of us).

But I'm absolutely not into dogmatic proclamations on it from either side - I guess I didn't make that clear.

As for Abraham. he was living his life when God called him. So...anyway.

Do you concede that many will go to hell? And that those who are saved are saved by Grace through faith, both GIFTS?

Also, I do believe that man is born dead in trespasses and sins, unable to generate faith from within himself. God's intervention is absolutely required.

The Holy Spirit is in the world convicting men of sin and unbelief and convincing through the preaching of the Gospel of the truth of Jesus Christ.

That preaching will either result in a calling to saving faith in some or a hardening of others in their unbelief.

I also affirm that Salvation is by Grace through faith in Christ. Salvation is a gift from God.

I'm not a calvinist, so perhaps I shouldn't even be on this thread (per OP), but as mentioned I believe our will was corrupted in Adam at the fall. We need Gracious regeneration to have our will aligned, or inclined to the Lord - a renewed mind. And I do not believe we can do this on our own.

Ed

 

[meecha]

A baby does not choose to be born. A baby is "created" by it's parents; so it is with the new birth and this was why Nicodemus had a problem in John 3. Jesus had to explain to him that the Spirit works all things. This agrees with 1 Cor 12 when it says that no one can call Jesus Lord except by the Spirit and when He explains the Peters famous confession that Jesus is the Christ did not come about because Peter worked it out. It was given by the Father through the Spirit. The New Birth as with the natural birth is nothing of man. This truth is one the Church needs to proudly proclaim.
We are all Arminians because we can not tolerate that we do not control ...at least in part...our destinies. But Jesus says that we must receive the Kkingdom as little children. Little children do not ask questions about their birth rights. They are happy that Mum and Dad are in control.

 

[tribesman]

A baby does not choose to be born. A baby is "created" by it's parents; so it is with the new birth and this was why Nicodemus had a problem in John 3. Jesus had to explain to him that the Spirit works all things. This agrees with 1 Cor 12 when it says that no one can call Jesus Lord except by the Spirit and when He explains the Peters famous confession that Jesus is the Christ did not come about because Peter worked it out. It was given by the Father through the Spirit. The New Birth as with the natural birth is nothing of man. This truth is one the Church needs to proudly proclaim.
We are all Arminians because we can not tolerate that we do not control ...at least in part...our destinies. But Jesus says that we must receive the Kkingdom as little children. Little children do not ask questions about their birth rights. They are happy that Mum and Dad are in control.

You hit the nail well there. What frightens the free-willers and humanists most of all is that man has no CONTROL over these matters and that God ALONE is in sovereign control (which says something about their spirituality). This they hate. Because in their minds this make God a "dictator" who "forces" people to love Him. Their problem is that they do not understand the nature of sin and that God owes man absolutely NOTHING than just punishment for his great crimes against his Creator. They want to earn up for it, they want a dead man to lovingly respond to a loving call. Well, it is not impossible (Jesus said clearly that it is IMPOSSIBLE), dead man do not love, dead men can not say "yes" to an "offer". They had to be quickened first, by the One that has power to do so.

 

[superdave5221]

You hit the nail well there. What frightens the free-willers and humanists most of all is that man has no CONTROL over these matters and that God ALONE is in sovereign control (which says something about their spirituality). This they hate. Because in their minds this make God a "dictator" who "forces" people to love Him. Their problem is that they do not understand the nature of sin and that God owes man absolutely NOTHING than just punishment for his great crimes against his Creator. They want to earn up for it, they want a dead man to lovingly respond to a loving call. Well, it is not impossible (Jesus said clearly that it is IMPOSSIBLE), dead man do not love, dead men can not say "yes" to an "offer". They had to be quickened first, by the One that has power to do so.

And you do not understand the nature of God's love, or sovereignty.


And perhaps you should become more well rounded. Whereas you could not answer hardly any of my questions, which for the most part were straightforward and simple, you can know for certain "what frightens an entire group of people", ((free willers and humanists) as if all of these people belong in the same group), and you are able to judge the spirituality of others as being less than yours, unless they agree with you.


I would hope that Christians could get together in a forum such as this and debate ideas without becoming judgemental of each other. Is that something that would require spiritual maturity? I'll let you be the judge of that, since you are much better at that then me.

 

[tribesman]

And you do not understand the nature of God's love, or sovereignty.

Says you. On what do you base that judgment?

And perhaps you should become more well rounded. Whereas you could not answer hardly any of my questions, which for the most part were straightforward and simple...

This is not true. Why are you dishonest? I answered your questions in post#10 and #13. If these answers was not of your liking, then that is another thing entirely. But still asked - and answered.

...you can know for certain "what frightens an entire group of people", ((free willers and humanists) as if all of these people belong in the same group), and you are able to judge the spirituality of others as being less than yours, unless they agree with you.

There can probably be used other words than "frightens". But obviously those who believe in free will in these matters dislike the view of God having the first and last say in the matter.

I would hope that Christians could get together in a forum such as this and debate ideas without becoming judgemental of each other.

Will you include yourself here as well, as you started this post of making a judgment? Or is it only others who should not be "judgmental"?

Is that something that would require spiritual maturity? I'll let you be the judge of that, since you are much better at that then me.

And with that you want to say what?

Since it seems like you are looking for faults, in post #8 you said that I had said that you had insinuated something. I never said that. I asked you in post#7 if you meant that Calvin insinuated something.

If you ask for a better level of communication, you should also mirror yourself in that. Otherwise you know what it is.

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

2 Peter 3: 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance


How is this possible if you are right? Is it not possible that God chose ALL of us for salvation, but yet, because of free will, some will refuse the gift?

Is this not true? Did not Christ die on the cross for ALL of us? Or is Christ's atoning sacrifice not sufficient for all of us?

Matthew 6: 9 "This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Why did Jesus teach us to pray thus? Why are we praying for that which is certain? Isn't God's will always done? Is it God's will that some should be sent to hell? Peter didn't think so. What would keep God's will from being done on the earth? The only thing that I can think of us man's free will, granted to us from God.

Would you believe that in the beginning God selected some to spend eternity in hell, and some to live? And those destined for hell would have no hope in life for redemption? Is this the God that you know?

Genesis 18: 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing--to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Abraham knew God. He knew that he was a righteous God. How will a righteous God judge those who are condemned from the beginning?

And the most important question of all:

How does God force us to love him? If God could force us to love him, then why didn't he force everyone to love him? And if he knew from the beginning who would love him, and who wouldn't, then what is the purpose of life?

Is the purpose of life so that God could send Jesus to die a hideous death on the cross, and then to save only those he had selected from the beginning as if Christ's atonement is insufficient to save ALL people from ALL sins for ALL time?

What did Abraham know about God that perhaps you don't?

The underlying issue is based upon a preconceived idea that what Peter meant when he wrote the words, “not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance,” that he had in mind everyone, everywhere. As I've argued before, 2 Peter 3.9 has a very specific group in mind, not all of mankind.

Notice who the letter is addressed to: fellow brethren (2 Peter 1), the "beloved” (2 Peter 3.1), also referred to as “you” (v. 1, 8), and “we” (v. 13). And then notice that in 2 Peter 3.3 that the Apostle begins to speak of scoffers, and refers to them in third person as “they” or “them” (v. 3-5). So almost immediately we have an "us" vs. "them" distinction. Peter says in regards to the scoffers in vv. 5-6, "For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water." But yet in regards to his audience, the “beloved” (v. 1, 8), he writes, “But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth… .”

Peter writes in v. 8, "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day." And it is in this context that Peter says in the very next verse, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you [“beloved,” v. 1, v. 8], not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

Further, it should be noted that there is referential connection between the "you" and "any/all” in v. 9. Why is God patient, and who is He patient towards? He's patient towards the "you” of v. 9, whom is the beloved of v. 8. Why? Because God does not wish for any of “you” to perish. This “any” does not mean "anyone, everybody, everywhere," rather, it is directed towards the same group of people that He is patient towards -- "any" referring to "you" -- "any of you."

Additionally, the Greek word “tinas,” a form of the root “tis,” is an indefinite pronoun; thus, the "any" in this clause ("...not willing that any [tinas] should parish...") refers to a particular group, a certain group of people, and does not entail everyone, everywhere. So the clause could just as accurately be translated, and probably even more conveniently as, "...not willing that certain ones should perish..." or "...not willing that some should perish... ."

Throughout the Epistle of Peter you can see that the audience never shifts, but always remains the same, “To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord” (2 Peter 1.1-2).

 

[superdave5221]

Says you. On what do you base that judgment?

On your answers in postings in this thread.

Will you include yourself here as well, as you started this post of making a judgment? Or is it only others who should not be "judgmental"?

Absolutely. However, I am allowed to make judgements on your understanding based on your postings. This is not a personal attack on your character or relationship with God.

You, however made character judgements on whole groups of people, most of whom you don't even know. You have no way of knowing what anyone's spiritual relationship with God is. Your standard of "spiritual maturity" is your perception of your own.


If you ask for a better level of communication, you should also mirror yourself in that. Otherwise you know what it is.

I do, although I don't always see clearly, admittedly. I attempt to always address the argument, not the person arguing. Your stereotyping and comments on the motives of someone holding certain beliefs, which you have no way of knowing, do nothing to further the debate.

 

[superdave5221]

The underlying issue is based upon a preconceived idea that what Peter meant when he wrote the words, “not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance,” that he had in mind everyone, everywhere. As I've argued before, 2 Peter 3.9 has a very specific group in mind, not all of mankind.

Notice who the letter is addressed to: fellow brethren (2 Peter 1), the "beloved” (2 Peter 3.1), also referred to as “you” (v. 1, 8), and “we” (v. 13). And then notice that in 2 Peter 3.3 that the Apostle begins to speak of scoffers, and refers to them in third person as “they” or “them” (v. 3-5). So almost immediately we have an "us" vs. "them" distinction. Peter says in regards to the scoffers in vv. 5-6, "For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water." But yet in regards to his audience, the “beloved” (v. 1, 8), he writes, “But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth… .”

Peter writes in v. 8, "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day." And it is in this context that Peter says in the very next verse, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you [“beloved,” v. 1, v. 8], not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

Further, it should be noted that there is referential connection between the "you" and "any/all” in v. 9. Why is God patient, and who is He patient towards? He's patient towards the "you” of v. 9, whom is the beloved of v. 8. Why? Because God does not wish for any of “you” to perish. This “any” does not mean "anyone, everybody, everywhere," rather, it is directed towards the same group of people that He is patient towards -- "any" referring to "you" -- "any of you."

Additionally, the Greek word “tinas,” a form of the root “tis,” is an indefinite pronoun; thus, the "any" in this clause ("...not willing that any [tinas] should parish...") refers to a particular group, a certain group of people, and does not entail everyone, everywhere. So the clause could just as accurately be translated, and probably even more conveniently as, "...not willing that certain ones should perish..." or "...not willing that some should perish... ."

Throughout the Epistle of Peter you can see that the audience never shifts, but always remains the same, “To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord” (2 Peter 1.1-2).

Thank you for your posting.

If you review my previous postings, you find that my argument is not limited to these verses. My arguments are based on the nature of God, which is to be found in the context of the entire bible as a God of love and righeousness, who would have us love him of our own free will, and would not judge those who have no will to do other than they are predetermined to do.

I have a question.

If I were to concede total depravity before regeneration, then it is certainly not the case afterward. Why then, after regeneration do we continue to sin? Is it God's will that we, as saved Christians continue to sin, or is it our free will that causes us to sin?

Is God responsible for evil?

Is Christ's atonement not sufficient for all sins of all people for all time?

 

[tribesman]

I do, although I don't always see clearly, admittedly. I attempt to always address the argument, not the person arguing. Your stereotyping and comments on the motives of someone holding certain beliefs, which you have no way of knowing, do nothing to further the debate.

You clearly do not see it here. And I doubt you are willing to understand my replies. You go on "you, you, you...", not mirroring yourself well enough in what you are saying, not applying to yourself, first, in what you ask for in others. Sorry, but that is hypocrisy. And it only hinders a good discussion. Instead of positively adding to the thread, you want get a discussion about the discussion, which most of time is detrimental to the discussion and only brings arguing as result. I am since long done with such as I consider it non-serious. I hope you can receive this with some understanding instead of bouncing it back. As said, I will have no meaningless discussions about the discussion, making the thread go further off-topic.

 

[superdave5221]

You clearly do not see it here. And I doubt you are willing to understand my replies. You go on "you, you, you...", not mirroring yourself well enough in what you are saying, not applying to yourself, first, in what you ask for in others. Sorry, but that is hypocrisy. And it only hinders a good discussion. Instead of positively adding to the thread, you want get a discussion about the discussion, which most of time is detrimental to the discussion and only brings arguing as result. I am since long done with such as I consider it non-serious. I hope you can receive this with some understanding instead of bouncing it back. As said, I will have no meaningless discussions about the discussion, making the thread go further off-topic.

You're absolutely right. I should have ignored your personal attacks and just let it go. That is something that I do need to work on. Thank you for your help.

 

[tribesman]

You're absolutely right. I should have ignored your personal attacks and just let it go. That is something that I do need to work on. Thank you for your help.

As expected, you keep on justifying yourself in your pride, now resorting to LYING (there has been no personal attacks from my side). You have exposed yourself and is now on ignore.