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M

mmlj29

Guest
If you are going to look at the bible with those pair of glasses I find that lesbianism is okay because their are only men that are mentioned and when a woman is mentioned it is not what kind of sin it is.

So girls + girls are okay with god but not boys + boys.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


Guzik commentary

d. Paul uses homosexuality - both female and male - as an example of God giving them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves.
i. Some say that the Bible nowhere condemns lesbian homosexuality, but the likewise of Rom_1:27 makes it clear that the sin of homosexuality condemned in Rom_1:27 is connected to the sin of women mentioned in Rom_1:26.
ii. Paul doesn’t even use the normal words for men and women here; he uses the words for male and female, using categories that describe sexuality outside of human terms, because the type of sexual sin he describes is outside of human dignity.
iii. Paul categorizes the whole section under the idea of vile passions - unhealthy, unholy. Nevertheless, Paul lived in a culture that openly approved of homosexuality. Paul didn’t write this to a culture that agreed with him.
iv. Paul wrote to a culture where homosexuality was accepted as a part of life for both men and women. For some 200 years, men who openly practiced homosexuality, often with young boys, ruled the Roman Empire.
v. At times, the Roman Empire specifically taxed approved homosexual prostitution and gave boy prostitutes a legal holiday. Legal marriage between same gender couples was recognized, and even some of the emperors married other men. At the very time Paul was writing, Nero was emperor. He took a boy named Sporus and had him castrated, then married him (with a full ceremony), brought him to the palace with a great procession, and made the boy his "wife." Later, Nero lived with another man, and Nero was the "wife."
vi. Homosexual practice truly is an abomination in our present culture. Statistics tell us that on average 43% of homosexuals say that they have had 500 or more sexual partners in their lifetime, and only 1% of homosexuals say they have had four or less sexual partners in their lifetime.
vii. According the Unites States Department of Health and Human Services, 77% of homosexuals say they have met sexual partners in a city park; 62% in a homosexual bar, 61% in a theater, 31% in a public restroom. Only 28% of homosexuals said that they had known their partners for at least a week before participating in homosexual sex.
viii. Homosexuals often seem to specialize in anonymous sex with no emotional commitment. At one time, London AIDS clinics defined a woman as promiscuous if she had more than six partners in her lifetime. They gave up trying to apply a workable definition to male homosexuals when it became clear that they saw almost no homosexual men who had less than six sexual partners a year.
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
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There are lot of commentaries in the bible. That may well be regarding sex with animals or with the dead.

Guzik just want to find evidence... nothing more.
 
M

mmlj29

Guest
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

If the men were participating in homosexual acts and doing "likewise" as the women....then you know what that means.
 
M

mmlj29

Guest
Lets put it all in context and then examine yourself

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
0
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Lets put it all in context and then examine yourself

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Of course... anyone can interpit the texts in the bible to anything...but this part:

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Does it not say rather clear that God makes the people "homosexual" in that case as a punishment for their sins... So he creates homosexuality. And if they are damned by God and he has passed their judgement on them is it not more than right that they live it out?


 
M

mmlj29

Guest
Of course... anyone can interpit the texts in the bible to anything...but this part:

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Does it not say rather clear that God makes the people "homosexual" in that case as a punishment for their sins... So he creates homosexuality. And if they are damned by God and he has passed their judgement on them is it not more than right that they live it out?
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

God didnt "make" them homosexual. All he did was leave them to their own devices. Why?

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
Of course... anyone can interpit the texts in the bible to anything...but this part:

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Does it not say rather clear that God makes the people "homosexual" in that case as a punishment for their sins... So he creates homosexuality. And if they are damned by God and he has passed their judgement on them is it not more than right that they live it out?


Claiming that because God "makes someone homosexual", therefor they can do what they want, is not scriptural.

Romans 9 addressed that type of question.


19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
0
0
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.





Well as I see it God punish them... and even if you feel lust... it is not a sin (not as bad) as if you outlive it. So God makes them do nasty stuff to each other. Clearly becasue he was upset since they did not worship him. I think it is a bit strange that he did not just killed them but let them have sex with each other instead... which is actually quite nice... Sex I mean.



But that is if you read the bible to the letter. There are lot of crazy things in the bible that no normal living person would ever refer to so when people refer to the homosexuality bits i think it is just plain silly.
 
M

mmlj29

Guest
How much of this chapter applies to you? I say this out of love.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
0
0
Yes... but it is a bit Ironic that God creates sin and then he sacrifce himself to remove it and then his creations (the people) should be thankful becasue he removed something that he himself had created.

What I am saying is that I think you can find guidance and a soul in the bible. But it is an ancient book and while some of the things that are written there are very important and wise others are clearly outdated. So... to point on bible passages to bring your point through is nothing that impress me :)

I know the feeling of Jesus... I know his soul and spritit and I also know that he is not a being that hates... he is not a being that judges... and he would weep over your spreading of miscontent and homophobia and judging other adult people in the way they choose to live their lives. You think that you are the agents of good but clearly Satan is behind what you are doing... you are creation diversion... you are creating hatred... and you show none of the christ like characteristics that a good christian should have.

You should pray and think on what you are saying. What makes you good people. If there was a passage in the bible that told you commit rape and murder on a certain time of the year... would you do it because it was written in an ancient book? Would you be good people just because you did follow the book to the letter.

Creation is a task for us humans. A task to understand ourselvs and our fellow man. It is filled with harshness and riddles. And by seeking the soul of good we can seek salvation. But the bible is as full of riddles and decieat and dangers as the rest of the worlds... and the ones that only look at the material things... the writings... and use them to behave like anti-christ and not christ... you are clearly on the wrong path.

Pray... Seek god behind the writing... Seek God in your hearts and you will come to realise this...

The greatest bringers of evil are the ones that see themselves as champions of justice and goodness!
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
Well as I see it God punish them...
Yes. Instead of restraining them from what they wanted to do, he just let them have at it. It brings judgement upon them.


and even if you feel lust... it is not a sin (not as bad) as if you outlive it.
It is a sin.

Jesus said...

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.


I think it is a bit strange that he did not just killed them but let them have sex with each other instead...
Isaiah 55:8
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

which is actually quite nice... Sex I mean.
When in a God-honoring manner, yes. If it is not, it is an unholy rebellion against a Holy God.


But that is if you read the bible to the letter.
The matter is one of what the original author intends for the original audience to understand.

This is where hermeneutics and Exegesis come to play.

There are lot of crazy things in the bible that no normal living person...
You come to the table with a cultural indoctrination as to what is "normal". "Crazy", is a subjection opinion.



...would ever refer to so when people refer to the homosexuality bits i think it is just plain silly.
There are many people indeed who refuse to listen to scripture, but that doesn't nullify truth that is there. Secondarily, whether you think it is silly or not, doesn't nullify the truth that homosexuality is sinful.

I think it silly that humans evolved. Surely, you will react with the "go back to your cave" line. Which on your behalf would be a double entendre, but, my point rather that if I argued as you do pertaining to the things you hold to true, I am quite confident that you would object greatly.

What you are basically arguing is, "I think this is silly! Therefor it is false".
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
0
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How much of this chapter applies to you? I say this out of love.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools
Now you are childish...
I can say that it refers to you as easily.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
Now you are childish...
I can say that it refers to you as easily.
I see a question mark. Meaning that, he is asking if it applies to you, not accusing you.
 
H

hislastwalk

Guest
a sin is a sin.
why can't Christians own up to that?
 
M

mmlj29

Guest
a sin is a sin.
why can't Christians own up to that?
All sin is bad no doubt, but this is one of the few sins that people try and defend as being ok. No one defends stealing, murder, and so forth.
 
M

mmlj29

Guest
Now you are childish...
I can say that it refers to you as easily.
Just asking a question. I often read scripture and ask myself "How much of this applies to me?". It helps me gauge where I stand and where I need to improve.
 
M

mmlj29

Guest
Yes... but it is a bit Ironic that God creates sin and then he sacrifce himself to remove it and then his creations (the people) should be thankful becasue he removed something that he himself had created.

What I am saying is that I think you can find guidance and a soul in the bible. But it is an ancient book and while some of the things that are written there are very important and wise others are clearly outdated. So... to point on bible passages to bring your point through is nothing that impress me :)

I know the feeling of Jesus... I know his soul and spritit and I also know that he is not a being that hates... he is not a being that judges... and he would weep over your spreading of miscontent and homophobia and judging other adult people in the way they choose to live their lives. You think that you are the agents of good but clearly Satan is behind what you are doing... you are creation diversion... you are creating hatred... and you show none of the christ like characteristics that a good christian should have.

You should pray and think on what you are saying. What makes you good people. If there was a passage in the bible that told you commit rape and murder on a certain time of the year... would you do it because it was written in an ancient book? Would you be good people just because you did follow the book to the letter.

Creation is a task for us humans. A task to understand ourselvs and our fellow man. It is filled with harshness and riddles. And by seeking the soul of good we can seek salvation. But the bible is as full of riddles and decieat and dangers as the rest of the worlds... and the ones that only look at the material things... the writings... and use them to behave like anti-christ and not christ... you are clearly on the wrong path.

Pray... Seek god behind the writing... Seek God in your hearts and you will come to realise this...

The greatest bringers of evil are the ones that see themselves as champions of justice and goodness!
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
0
0
Just asking a question. I often read scripture and ask myself "How much of this applies to me?". It helps me gauge where I stand and where I need to improve.
And clearly you are misguided... I see only that you create negative things... fear and hatred among people... and that is not the way of christ.
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
0
0
All sin is bad no doubt, but this is one of the few sins that people try and defend as being ok. No one defends stealing, murder, and so forth.
Do you compare a homosexual act with murder? Do you compare an unclean thought with murder? Do you compare masturbation with murder? Do you compare swearing with murder?


Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools!
 

Nattmaran

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
Mar 31, 2012
291
0
0
I see a question mark. Meaning that, he is asking if it applies to you, not accusing you.
I did see it... but it can as easily refer to him...

I think you people are scary... You sit there pretending to be God himself and judge people.

Your egos are the idols that you worship.