jesus is not God

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Jesus is PART of the trinity - God, the Father, God, the Son, and, God, the Holy Spirit. Three DISTINCT persons as One. I know hard to make sense of but the verse you use, SolD, for reference is true. Christ is SEATED at the right hand of God. He is surely then His own person. :)

God bless you.

Jesus bless you.

May the Holy Spirit bless you too .


Hey Green, nice to see you again :)

I should be clear. I said it way earlier, but I will repeat it. I believe that Jesus is an extension of God. A living embodiment if you will. I think you did a pretty good job of saying what I meant there.
 
what is this about Jesus being God and three persons etc.
Im a follower of Jesus christ and have read the bible and I hear people saying Jesus is God why?????

please explain short and clearly,with scripture proof.

thank you.

If you do not believe Jesus is God, why do you come here? It is not good to simply be present for contention. You will not find anyone who knows Jesus Christ who will tell you He is not God. As for the word, trinity, this is simply a label that has been put to refer to God, Who is The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is all able, and for Him, being One, which He is, to manifest Himself in Three manners is child's play for Him. It seems anyone who cannot believe this is really not ready to believe much of anything. May God direct your path to His Salvation, in the name, Jesus Christ, amen.
 
I had a long, long think about this, and here are my thoughts;


Examples OT; Exodus 34:14 says, “For you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God”

Examples NT: Matthew 15:25 Then she came and worshiped Him (Jesus), saying, "Lord, help me!" -

Throughout the bible it tells of God being 'one', and being unchanging, but his Spirit being in all of us, including Jesus.

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, AND IN YOU ALL.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I CHANGE NOT; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Then it also says of God's word being done in flesh, albeit in John.

John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' 14. And the Word was made flesh.'

A lot of people take this as proof of Jesus being God. But I beg to differ. Now here, the word, to me, is all that God stands for.The word is His teaching, his will, and his grace. It is his way of thinking. It is his wisdom, and his love. And Jesus inherited all of that. As did we to a certain extent.

Jesus also says that He and God are one. That is where it get's confusing. If God is the only God, and he is one God, and is unchanging, then how can Jesus also be God? Well, the simple, indisputable answer is, he cannot.

I look at this scripture, and at Jesus, not as being PHYSICALLY God, but as having God's spirit, God's will, and God's desire and knowledge and wisdom in him. The same way our fathers try to pass their knowledge and wisdom and way of thinking, and belief, onto us. To me, when Jesus says 'The Lord and I are one', I always took it in the context that this was a metaphor for their singular way of thinking and their shared divine power.

Jesus was born of a human mother, and had a divine Father. He was flesh and blood, as is man, but had also part of God in Him, (the same way in which you and I have parts of our biological Father's in us). Now we know that God cannot be impure. He is perfect. Therefore, how can he have flesh and temptation, and fear, and anger? The simple indisputable answer is, he cannot.

There are many lines in scripture that show us that Jesus and God, although they share many things with each other, are separate physical entities.

For instance, when God speaks of Jesus 'sitting at his right hand', this implies that they are to be 'together in Heaven', but are as separate beings, albeit sharing the same power and knowledge. Also when Jesus speaks to God and prays to God, he does so as a separate entity, for instance, in the olive trees before his capture. When he cries out to God on the cross, he does so as a separate entity. 'Oh Father, why have you forsaken me?'

God and Jesus, and us all, have the Holy Spirit in us, but we, and Jesus, are OF God. We contain the Holy Spirit. As does Jesus. As do the angels!

'And God breathed his Holy Spirit into the dust, and there was life'

BUT, Jesus had our temptations, and our fears, our anger. He, physically, was a human. But with the divine will to resist such temptation. For instance, in his 40 days in the desert, he resisted. But if he WAS God, he would not even have such temptations in the first place. God is not tempted by worldly things. Nor by Satan.

Colossians 2:9 'For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in BODILY FORM,' - Jesus has God's will, and some of his power, the ability to heal for instance, but he IS also a man.

You see, Jesus is a man in Heaven, sitting at God's right hand. And he was a man on Earth. But as the scripture shows above, the fullness of God dwelt in Him. He has God's wisdom, His power, His love, His knowledge, His hope, His faith. Jesus came back as a man, with holes still in his hands. Then he went to sit at God's right hand. Jesus had human mother, human cousins. Shared blood with human beings.

Therefore the trinity must not be God in full, for all the reasons above, but I think it is this;

God is the Father, whom we worship. He is the ONE, SINGULAR God.

Jesus is the Son, whom we pray in, and whose example we follow. He is OF God. God's human Son, who inherited God's wisdom and Truth. And spread his wisdom across the world. He is who died for HUMAN sin, and only a human could potentially commit, and take the blame for, such sin. But only with part of God in him, could he handle such sin, could he take the pain, could he have such resolve. Only with part of God in Him that makes him so sure and so faithful, and so never endingly believing. He was God's Son, and he knew beyond any doubt that God's plan was true and was the only way. A lesser man could not have known such things, or would have had doubt. But not a man with so much God in him.

And the Holy Spirit is God's love, God's will, and God's grace, which is in all of us, somewhere.

We all came from God - Everything did. But we are not all God.

It is not hard to believe, with all God's power, that he could make himself into three, but it IS hard to believe, that God, with all his promises and none of them ever broken, that he would tell us, specifically, that he is ONE GOD AND DOES NOT CHANGE, then split into three. NO. In the Jewish book, which the people of Jesus time, and in fact, Jesus Himself, would have taught from, it states that GOD is one God, only one God, and does not change. Now if that's what Jesus was teaching, and that's what Jews knew at that time, then that is what God MUST be. The trinity is not God as a whole, GOD, THE FATHER, is God as a whole. The trinity is really just three separate things; God being Lord, Jesus being his Son, and the Holy Spirit being God's power, his knowledge, his spirit; everything he stands for. Imagine God's spirit floating around, touching people. It is to me, the means by which he shows his power. Like a force.

Read the scripture back and tell me it does not all make sense that way.

The bible is full of metaphor and ways of speaking that are not meant to be taken literally. When Jesus says that God and Him are one, this must be a metaphor for the way that Jesus has (pardon the expression) partly divine 'DNA' ( I can't think of a better way to put it), and has God's knowledge and powers. It has to be.
 
You are not saved.
Yes, I am. I have confessed Jesus Christ as my Lord and I absolutely believe God, his father, raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9).

He who does not know the Son, does not know the father.
I know the son. You do not. You make Jesus Christ God, which he is not. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. He is the Son of God, not God. Only God, the Father, is God. There is one God, not three, or one as three, or three in one, or whatever trinitarians say. Even some trinitarians on this forum admit to not understanding the trinity.

You deny the deity of Christ, and thus, deny God.
I understand that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. He is not "deity". Only God is God. Jesus Christ is a man, the second Adam. His father is God. The first Adam blew it, the second got it right, and because of that it is available for anyone who accepts Christ to be saved. When you try to make Jesus God, you do not know who God is.

You stand condemned.
I stand righteous before God through the work of Jesus Christ.

JD, it's good to be bold in your convictions, if your convictions are right. Yours are not.
 
QUOTE: You are not saved. He who does not know the Son, does not know the father. You deny the deity of Christ, and thus, deny God.

You stand condemned.


I doubt he is denying the fact that Jesus was God's son, which is 'the diety of Christ', he is denying the illusion that they are exactly one and the same thing. As am I.
 
What do you do about John 1? And Isaiah 9:6? And the term Emmanuel?

What about them? Jesus Christ is God's word in the flesh. He declared, or made known, God, his Father.

The bible is the written word of God, Jesus Christ is the living word of God.

Jesus' name is called Emmanuel, "God with us". Again, Christ made (and makes) known God.

1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Rom 5:15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Rom 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Jesus Christ lived a sinless life, then gave it for you and me. God, his Father, then raised him from the dead. Jesus Christ died. He was dead. God cannot die.
 
If you do not believe Jesus is God, why do you come here?
Because I love God and His wonderful Son Jesus Christ, and I love to talk about them.

It is not good to simply be present for contention.
That is not my intention.

You will not find anyone who knows Jesus Christ who will tell you He is not God.
That statement is not true.

As for the word, trinity, this is simply a label that has been put to refer to God, Who is The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Only God, the Father, is God. There is ONE God, who is spirit.

God is all able, and for Him, being One, which He is, to manifest Himself in Three manners is child's play for Him.
I suppose He could, but He didn't. And doesn't. Only God is God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Holy spirit can either refer to God Himself, or to the gift He gives when people believe on His Son.

It seems anyone who cannot believe this is really not ready to believe much of anything.
I believe plenty, thank you. You are deceived by religion. The trinity was not even an "accepted" part of Christian doctrine until the fourth century.

May God direct your path to His Salvation, in the name, Jesus Christ, amen.
May He do the same for you.

God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
Very true. The Roman Church added and omitted many parts of the bible. And many parts have also been taken grossly out of context or studied with lack of real logical thought. God's word is truth. Truth does not have contradictions. Therefore, God as three, cannot be truth. It was said first that he is ONE, so he is one.
 
I had a long, long think about this, and here are my thoughts;


Examples OT; Exodus 34:14 says, “For you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God”

Examples NT: Matthew 15:25 Then she came and worshiped Him (Jesus), saying, "Lord, help me!" -

Throughout the bible it tells of God being 'one', and being unchanging, but his Spirit being in all of us, including Jesus.

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, AND IN YOU ALL.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I CHANGE NOT; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Then it also says of God's word being done in flesh, albeit in John.

John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' 14. And the Word was made flesh.'

A lot of people take this as proof of Jesus being God. But I beg to differ. Now here, the word, to me, is all that God stands for.The word is His teaching, his will, and his grace. It is his way of thinking. It is his wisdom, and his love. And Jesus inherited all of that. As did we to a certain extent.

Jesus also says that He and God are one. That is where it get's confusing. If God is the only God, and he is one God, and is unchanging, then how can Jesus also be God? Well, the simple, indisputable answer is, he cannot.

I look at this scripture, and at Jesus, not as being PHYSICALLY God, but as having God's spirit, God's will, and God's desire and knowledge and wisdom in him. The same way our fathers try to pass their knowledge and wisdom and way of thinking, and belief, onto us. To me, when Jesus says 'The Lord and I are one', I always took it in the context that this was a metaphor for their singular way of thinking and their shared divine power.

Jesus was born of a human mother, and had a divine Father. He was flesh and blood, as is man, but had also part of God in Him, (the same way in which you and I have parts of our biological Father's in us). Now we know that God cannot be impure. He is perfect. Therefore, how can he have flesh and temptation, and fear, and anger? The simple indisputable answer is, he cannot.

There are many lines in scripture that show us that Jesus and God, although they share many things with each other, are separate physical entities.

For instance, when God speaks of Jesus 'sitting at his right hand', this implies that they are to be 'together in Heaven', but are as separate beings, albeit sharing the same power and knowledge. Also when Jesus speaks to God and prays to God, he does so as a separate entity, for instance, in the olive trees before his capture. When he cries out to God on the cross, he does so as a separate entity. 'Oh Father, why have you forsaken me?'

God and Jesus, and us all, have the Holy Spirit in us, but we, and Jesus, are OF God. We contain the Holy Spirit. As does Jesus. As do the angels!

'And God breathed his Holy Spirit into the dust, and there was life'

BUT, Jesus had our temptations, and our fears, our anger. He, physically, was a human. But with the divine will to resist such temptation. For instance, in his 40 days in the desert, he resisted. But if he WAS God, he would not even have such temptations in the first place. God is not tempted by worldly things. Nor by Satan.

Colossians 2:9 'For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in BODILY FORM,' - Jesus has God's will, and some of his power, the ability to heal for instance, but he IS also a man.

You see, Jesus is a man in Heaven, sitting at God's right hand. And he was a man on Earth. But as the scripture shows above, the fullness of God dwelt in Him. He has God's wisdom, His power, His love, His knowledge, His hope, His faith. Jesus came back as a man, with holes still in his hands. Then he went to sit at God's right hand. Jesus had human mother, human cousins. Shared blood with human beings.

Therefore the trinity must not be God in full, for all the reasons above, but I think it is this;

God is the Father, whom we worship. He is the ONE, SINGULAR God.

Jesus is the Son, whom we pray in, and whose example we follow. He is OF God. God's human Son, who inherited God's wisdom and Truth. And spread his wisdom across the world. He is who died for HUMAN sin, and only a human could potentially commit, and take the blame for, such sin. But only with part of God in him, could he handle such sin, could he take the pain, could he have such resolve. Only with part of God in Him that makes him so sure and so faithful, and so never endingly believing. He was God's Son, and he knew beyond any doubt that God's plan was true and was the only way. A lesser man could not have known such things, or would have had doubt. But not a man with so much God in him.

And the Holy Spirit is God's love, God's will, and God's grace, which is in all of us, somewhere.

We all came from God - Everything did. But we are not all God.

It is not hard to believe, with all God's power, that he could make himself into three, but it IS hard to believe, that God, with all his promises and none of them ever broken, that he would tell us, specifically, that he is ONE GOD AND DOES NOT CHANGE, then split into three. NO. In the Jewish book, which the people of Jesus time, and in fact, Jesus Himself, would have taught from, it states that GOD is one God, only one God, and does not change. Now if that's what Jesus was teaching, and that's what Jews knew at that time, then that is what God MUST be. The trinity is not God as a whole, GOD, THE FATHER, is God as a whole. The trinity is really just three separate things; God being Lord, Jesus being his Son, and the Holy Spirit being God's power, his knowledge, his spirit; everything he stands for. Imagine God's spirit floating around, touching people. It is to me, the means by which he shows his power. Like a force.

Read the scripture back and tell me it does not all make sense that way.

The bible is full of metaphor and ways of speaking that are not meant to be taken literally. When Jesus says that God and Him are one, this must be a metaphor for the way that Jesus has (pardon the expression) partly divine 'DNA' ( I can't think of a better way to put it), and has God's knowledge and powers. It has to be.

God's divine power is bestowed to His Son, Jesus, on Earth, but Jesus releases His Divine power ability in order to become a common man and walk among us with human expression and, up on the cross, Jesus was FULLY experiencing human pain :( Because He loved us, He died for us, and, that act saved us from sin, suffering, shame, and, yes, DEATH :).

Jesu is STILL with the powers of God on Earth, He is God in essence, but He (Jesus) humbles Himself in order to do His Father's will, as 'it is written.'

And, after Jesus dies on the cross He is exalted and goes to be at the right hand of God, Jesus is His own person in Heaven NOW but FULLY with the powers of His Father, GRANTED Him :)

Lord God and Lord Jesus reign and WILL reign forevermore , watching o'er us from above and sending His angels all over the world to help we humans do THEIR work , giving us the power of the Holy Spirit which comes from God, given to us, just like it was given to His son on Earth. IF Jesus was mere man then He would have sinned, He did not sin because He was God in essence. He merely HUMBLED Himself in the sight of His Father while on Earth, doing His Father's will, just like Jesus said up on the cross, 'Thy will be done."

Just like Jesus said in the Garden of Gethsemane at Mount of Olives, ' Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me, nevertheless, not My will but Yours be done.'

Jesus was fulfilling His Father's will , so that you and me could be saved from Hell and have eternal life. Jesus PERMITTED everything that happened to Him to honor God, His Father and Jesus knew that , through scripture in Old Testament that He would indeed die. He KNEW what was written through the God-breathed words of Isaiaih, for one, MUST be fulfilled in order for humanity/mankind to be SAVED :)

I sound off-topic perhaps but I hope not, this should all provided steady understanding that Jesus was not God but was indeed, verily I say unto you, ,peeps, A PERSON that was human on Earth but with God's essence, until He went up to Heaven and was EXALTED by His father God to have ALL power of God Himself, seated at His (God's) right side. On Earth, God bestowed Jesus with the power to heal, to extricate demons, etc. and ALL power was given Him by His Father God in Heaven because Jesus would NOT (no matter what) use His Divine power to CHANGE the COURSE of history on Earth . Why? To honor God, his Father in Heaven, and, we too should be the same way. Our lives should be squarely sold-out on SERVING God with all our heart and that includes Love for fellow mankind that is in us by way of the Holy Spirit in us :)
 
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Jesus was in the form of God. He took on the form of a servant. (Philippians 2:5-11, Hebrews 2:14).

Thomas confessed Him as His Lord and His God. (John 20:28)



How much more clear could it be that Jesus is, indeed, God incarnate?
 
I can say I am not totally familiar with the "Jesus is the 2nd Adam" hypothesis.

"The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven." (1 Corinthians 15:47)

Adam was made from the dust of the earth. Jesus wasn't made - He was perfect, and took on the form of a servant, the likeness of human, sinful flesh. He wasn't just a "plan" in God's mind. He was from heaven.

(see Philippians 2:5-11 and Hebrews 2:14)



Edit: (oh, and adam just means "man" in Hebrew - it would be the same in Greek. The first adam, the second adam - first man, second man)
 
I can say I am not totally familiar with the "Jesus is the 2nd Adam" hypothesis.

Rom 5:
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16) And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18) Therefore as by the offence of one [Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [ Jesus Christ ] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Adam -could- have lived sinlessly, if he had chosen to. Jesus Christ -did- live sinlessly, because he chose to. Adam blew it for everyone. Jesus Christ is fixing it for everyone who will choose to believe on him.
 
Rom 5:
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16) And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18) Therefore as by the offence of one [Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [ Jesus Christ ] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Adam -could- have lived sinlessly, if he had chosen to. Jesus Christ -did- live sinlessly, because he chose to. Adam blew it for everyone. Jesus Christ is fixing it for everyone who will choose to believe on him.

Hmm, I don't really take that as them being the same person. Just that Adam ruined it, and Jesus fixed it. I certainly don't see anything there to imply they are the same person.
 
Hmm, I don't really take that as them being the same person. Just that Adam ruined it, and Jesus fixed it. I certainly don't see anything there to imply they are the same person.
They are not the same person. Why would you think they are the same person? But both are men.
 
Hmm, I don't really take that as them being the same person. Just that Adam ruined it, and Jesus fixed it. I certainly don't see anything there to imply they are the same person.

Saul - as I replied to you above, one was from the dust, and one was from heaven. They are not the same person, but, as shroom said, both human. Jesus is both human and divine, however, and Adam is not.
 
Saul - as I replied to you above, one was from the dust, and one was from heaven. They are not the same person, but, as shroom said, both human. Jesus is both human and divine, however, and Adam is not.


I see what you said, I misread part of one of your earlier post, and my brain immediately clicked over to a previous thread I had skimmed. And there people said they were the same. I thought you were saying the same thing. My apologies for the miss communication.
 
I see what you said, I misread part of one of your earlier post, and my brain immediately clicked over to a previous thread I had skimmed. And there people said they were the same. I thought you were saying the same thing. My apologies for the miss communication.

No problem! That happens to me sometimes too.


So, to reiterate, Adam was the first adam (and "adam" simply means "man"), and Christ was the second "adam." Yet this "second adam" was from heaven.



This is interesting, because I work on the GotQuestions website, and I actually just got a question about Christ being the second adam. This has helped me formulate the answer a bit - so thanks for asking! :)



Grace and Love in Christ
 
So, to reiterate, Adam was the first adam (and "adam" simply means "man"), and Christ was the second "adam." Yet this "second adam" was from heaven.
Yes. God is Jesus Christ's father. That's why he is from heaven. He is the only man fathered by God.