The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:
Didn't he just say that?


đź•Š
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I think he meant the reverse of that; that by doing His will they become saved, at least, that's how he has described it in past posts, unless he's changed his mind, but if so, he wouldn't be speaking of the keeping of law as playing role in salvation.
If I'm wrong, then great - hope I am.
 
rogerg said:
Any attempt to justify oneself by the keeping of the law instead of by Christ alone, brings only God's wrath upon them
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You misunderstand the role of the law. It shows us our sin. Its like looking in the mirror and seeing food on your face. If you remove the mirror does the food go away or is it you just can't see it. The law shows us what is right and wrong according to God's standard- it just reveals sin, it can't do anything else. What is the solution to sin? First we have to be sorry for what we did to Jesus by sinning and repent, which means change our mind on the act that we did that was in violation to the will of God and turning from that sin and turning to Christ abiding in Him. Removing the law doesn't make our sins go away it just covers them, Pro28:13 which is not the spot we want to be when He returns Heb10:26-30 Mat7:21-23. We are not justified by the law, we are made righteous by faith- doing what is right according to God Psa 40:8 by faith Rom3:31. The faith part is what saves, the action part shows our faith is genuine. Any one can say Lord Lord, but Jesus said He is looking for doers of His word. Mat7:21-23 Luke 6:46-49
 
SabbathBlessing said:
You misunderstand the role of the law. It shows us our sin. Its like looking in the mirror and seeing food on your face. If you remove the mirror does the food go away or is it you just can't see it. The law shows us what is right and wrong according to God's standard- it just reveals sin, it can't do anything else. What is the solution to sin? First we have to be sorry for what we did to Jesus by sinning and repent, which means change our mind on the act that we did that was in violation to the will of God and turning from that sin and turning to Christ abiding in Him. Removing the law doesn't make our sins go away it just covers them, Pro28:13 which is not the spot we want to be when He returns Heb10:26-30 Mat7:21-23
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Then according to that, the keeping of the law plays no role in salvation, right?
God saves apart from anything that we do or don't do, which is His divine prerogative.
 
vassal said:
The Bible does present the Ten Commandments as the covenant itself. In Exodus 34:28, it is written:

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Blessings
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“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1, 3-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some find that concept hard god saying “ the old things have come to pass and I’m declaring new things for the future before they happen I’m telling you about them “

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (for they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: and so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-21‬ ‭

To be clear what he’s talking about

“And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He speaks the Ten Commandments to them from Sinai and makes a covenant with the children of Israel. He tells then after this they will break the covenant he made with them and forsake him…

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

later the prophets foretold a new covenant would be made that was not according to the covenant made with them from Sinai ( the Ten Commandments ) which covenant they broke

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the covenant Hebrews says we have not come to that Corey Mount and voice of words and quaking and darkness ect

many think Gods somehow planned to put Moses law in everyone’s heart but not so he was promising to come and speak his law to the people later ……

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.”


He promised salvation to then remission of thier sins and redemption that’s what the gospel is for Israel and everyone else if we’re trying to please god by trying to keep Israel’s Old Testament law of the land they defiles and left desolate ….. we’re missing Christianity’s power to transform our lives beginning in our heart and mind be hearing and believing the gospel spoken by the Lord to all humanity
 
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rogerg said:
Then according to that, the keeping of the law plays no role in salvation, right?
God saves apart from anything that we do or don't do, which is His divine prerogative.
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Our salvation is in Christ, the law is kept because one is saved Rev14:12, not to be saved. Christ would only lead us to obey Him, not disobey, If we see sin in our life, we need seek Jesus and ask for His help in overcoming- sin is the transgression of God's law 1John3:4 James 2:11 Mat5:19-30, so it not based on what we feel and its more than I just believe in God. Unbelief and disobedience in Scripture are used interchangeably Heb3:7-19 so if we do not have faith that is transforming us from the inside out, we may want to consider where we are in our walk with God. Jesus clearly states not everyone who says Lord Lord will make it to heaven, so instead of trying to do what will be the least we have to do to get into heaven and change that mindset to how can I serve and love God today to my fullest- what did He say how we serve Him and join ourselves to Him Isa 56:6 and love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 John15:10 do that.
 
vassal said:
No, you are twisting it. Jesus never said we are saved by law-keeping alone, but He did say, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, ASV) and “He that believeth and obeyeth not the Son shall not see life” (John 3:36).

Grace does not cancel obedience; it forgives and changes the heart so we actually follow Him.
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First, unlike what some here have suggested, I do not believe in what Martin Luther called "Antinomianism" which is the belief that disciples of Jesus Christ are under no obligation to obey the moral law. This is lawlessness which strongly denied by both Jesus and His Apostles. However, the Ten Commandments of Moses are only an abbreviated SUMMARY of the (MORAL) LAW. In fact, when compared to the commandments of Jesus, Moses law seems superficial as it emphasizes BEHAVIOR over all the activity that is set in motion by the desires and thoughts of our flesh and mind.

Paul, describing the condition of our souls before salvation, said:
1And you, being DEAD in your trespasses and sins— 2 in which once you walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom we all also once lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of its thoughts; and we were by nature children of wrath even as the rest
(Ephesians 2:1-3)
This is much deeper and more comprehensive than defining God's will as a list of prohibitions like the Ten Commandments -
"You shall not..." do this or that" - the kind of thing that God wrote on tablets of stone in GREATLY simplified form as we would explain a complex set of behaviors and motives to children.

The term "WALKED" [in reference to following God or Satan] is from the Hebrew word "HALAKAH" which refers to a person's typical way of life. Legalists believe that with enough effort and dedication they could (at least theoretically) keep the Law by their own efforts. Paul describes this way of living as a never-ending pattern of attempting to follow God's will and failing to do so. We fail the same way Paul did because we are not depending on the power of the Spirit. Even when we try very hard to meet His standards we fail because of our natural tendency to rely on ourselves. Because of this, the offering of their lives to God is always polluted (to some degree) by pride and self-will.

By contrast Jesus who had been the radient image of the father, as a human being submitted Himself to not only be obedient to the Father but also depend upon Him.
19So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does.
(John 5:19-20)

No one by their own effort and personal sacrifice can produce fruit that is acceptable to God. We only bear God's spiritual fruit when we remain in union with His Son. As Jesus Himself said:
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
(John 15:5)
 
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GWH said:
Accepting God's grace is the remainder for us all.
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We've discussed that before. If it has to be accepted, then it isn't grace - God unilaterally gives it to those whom He chose to salvation irrespective of a recipient's actions, as is His divine prerogative to do. He is the Savior and man is not.
 
rogerg said:
Grace brings obedience but obedience to Christ as THE Savior, not obedience to law for the justification of oneself.
Jesus's answer to the question which He was asked was based upon "what good thing shall I DO that I may enter eternal life". Jesus answered, replying to the "what must I do" part - that if someone wants to enter eternal life based upon what THEY DO, then, yes, they must keep the law and commandments perfectly, but no one will be saved based upon that because it's impossible for man to do so and a little doesn't count; they can only become saved based upon what Jesus did and which becomes imputed freely to them. There is no "law keeping alone" or even a little bit, in salvation; the only "alone" is through Christ alone.

[Jhn 3:36 KJV] 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
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That argument falls apart because Jesus did not say “try and fail” or “it’s impossible anyway.” He said, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, ASV) and He never corrected that.

Believing on the Son is not empty words; Jesus said, “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Faith that refuses obedience is not faith at all.
 
rogerg said:
Any attempt to justify oneself by the keeping of the law instead of by Christ alone, brings only God's wrath upon them
Click to expand...
RogerG, none of us here say to keep the commandments to be justified, none! Rather we do follow them because God put them in out hearts because we Love him and want to follow him. Jesus said: " If ye love me, keep my commandments. (john 14:15). this is the reason and there is no other.
 
JimiSurvivor said:
First, unlike what some here have suggested, I do not believe in what Martin Luther called "Antinomianism" which is the belief that disciples of Jesus Christ are under no obligation to obey the moral law. This is lawlessness which strongly denied by both Jesus and His Apostles. However, the Ten Commandments of Moses are only an abbreviated SUMMARY of the (MORAL) LAW. In fact, when compared to the commandments of Jesus, Moses law seems superficial as it emphasizes BEHAVIOR over all the activity that is set in motion by the desires and thoughts of our flesh and mind.

Paul, describing the condition of our souls before salvation, said:
1And you, being DEAD in your trespasses and sins— 2 in which once you walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom we all also once lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of its thoughts; and we were by nature children of wrath even as the rest
(Ephesians 2:1-3)
This is much deeper and more comprehensive than defining God's will as a list of prohibitions like the Ten Commandments -
"You shall not..." do this or that" - the kind of thing that God wrote on tablets of stone in GREATLY simplified form as we would explain a complex set of behaviors and motives to children.

The term "WALKED" [in reference to following God or Satan] is from the Hebrew word "HALAKAH" which refers to a person's typical way of life. Legalists believe that with enough effort and dedication they could (at least theoretically) keep the Law by their own efforts. Paul describes this way of living as a never-ending pattern of attempting to follow God's will and failing to do so. We fail the same way Paul did because we are not depending on the power of the Spirit. Even when we try very hard to meet His standards we fail because of our natural tendency to rely on ourselves. Because of this, the offering of their lives to God is always polluted (to some degree) by pride and self-will.

By contrast Jesus who had been the radient image of the father, as a human being submitted Himself to not only be obedient to the Father but also depend upon Him.
19So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does.
(John 5:19-20)

No one by their own effort and personal sacrifice can produce fruit that is acceptable to God. We only bear God's spiritual fruit when we remain in union with His Son. As Jesus Himself said:
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
(John 15:5)
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You say the commandments are “simplified,” yet Jesus said they hang on loving God and loving your neighbor (Matthew 22:37–40, ASV) and then warned that even anger and lust break them at the heart level (Matthew 5:21–28). That is not superficial.

Yes, without Him we can do nothing (John 15:5), but He also said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (John 14:15) and “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me” (John 14:21). Abiding in Christ does not replace obedience, it produces it.
 
vassal said:
That argument falls apart because Jesus did not say “try and fail” or “it’s impossible anyway.” He said, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, ASV) and He never corrected that.

Believing on the Son is not empty words; Jesus said, “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Faith that refuses obedience is not faith at all.
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The obedience is obedience to the faith and to Christ as Savior, not to the keeping of law for spiritual justification.
And, no, it doesn't fall apart. Do you believe you have the authority to change what Jesus said? You cannot extract one verse from a series of related verses and build a spiritual doctrine on it, which is what you are trying to do, Instead, they must be considered in their context and completeness, not reading or imposing on them what you'd like them to mean.
By your reply, you are saying that in order to enter into eternal life we must keep the commandments (whatever unattainable actions that might necessitate) - and which, beyond question, is completely wrong, thereby making man his own savior instead of Christ as THE Savior. You simply cannot accept that Christ is the only Savior
 
vassal said:
RogerG, none of us here say to keep the commandments to be justified, none! Rather we do follow them because God put them in out hearts because we Love him and want to follow him. Jesus said: " If ye love me, keep my commandments. (john 14:15). this is the reason and there is no other.
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Those commandments are to believe in Christ as Savior, and love the brethren, the satisfying of which are given by God through the Holy Spirit as a gift to those whom He saves.
 
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vassal said:
That argument falls apart because Jesus did not say “try and fail” or “it’s impossible anyway.” He said, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, ASV) and He never corrected that.

Believing on the Son is not empty words; Jesus said, “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Faith that refuses obedience is not faith at all.
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Who ever entered into life by keeping the commandments?
 
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rogerg said:
The obedience is obedience to the faith and to Christ as Savior, not to the keeping of law for spiritual justification.
And, no, it doesn't fall apart. Do you believe you have the authority to change what Jesus said? You cannot extract one verse from a series of related verses and build a spiritual doctrine on it, which is what you are trying to do, Instead, they must be considered in their context and completeness, not reading or imposing on them what you'd like them to mean.
By your reply, you are saying that in order to enter into eternal life we must keep the commandments (whatever unattainable actions that might necessitate) - and which, beyond question, is completely wrong, thereby making man his own savior instead of Christ as THE Savior. You simply cannot accept that Christ is the only Savior
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rogerg said:
The obedience is obedience to the faith and to Christ as Savior, not to the keeping of law for spiritual justification.
And, no, it doesn't fall apart. Do you believe you have the authority to change what Jesus said? You cannot extract one verse from a series of related verses and build a spiritual doctrine on it, which is what you are trying to do, Instead, they must be considered in their context and completeness, not reading or imposing on them what you'd like them to mean.
By your reply, you are saying that in order to enter into eternal life we must keep the commandments (whatever unattainable actions that might necessitate) - and which, beyond question, is completely wrong, thereby making man his own savior instead of Christ as THE Savior. You simply cannot accept that Christ is the only Savior
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No one is changing what Jesus said. He said, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, ASV), and in the same breath showed the ruler his heart. He did not say the commandments are irrelevant, He exposed the man’s failure to truly keep them.
You keep framing obedience as self-salvation, but Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter… but he that doeth the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21) and “He that believeth and obeyeth not the Son shall not see life” (John 3:36). Christ alone saves, but the Christ who saves commands obedience, and those who refuse it prove they do not truly believe.
 
rogerg said:
Those commandments are to believe in Christ as Savior, and love the brethren, the satisfying of which are given by God through the Holy Spirit as a gift to those whom He saves.
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Jesus did not reduce His commandments to one narrow idea. When He was asked about eternal life, He pointed to the commandments (Matthew 19:17). When asked about the greatest commandment, He quoted loving God and neighbor from the Law (Matthew 22:37–40). In the Sermon on the Mount He deepened “Thou shalt not kill” and “Thou shalt not commit adultery” to the level of the heart (Matthew 5:21–28). He never separated faith from obedience.
Believing in Him is a command, yes. Loving the brethren is a command, yes. But those do not cancel the rest. They fulfill them. The Spirit is given to write God’s law on the heart, not to erase it. That is why Jesus said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (John 14:15, ASV).

Jesus teaches that true faith, true love, and true obedience are one thing flowing from a changed heart. Not reversed, but united.
 
vassal said:
Did you forget what Jesus said? If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (mat 19:17)

Jesus knows who and assuredly, all shall be judged by his words.
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Did you enter into life by keeping the commandments? How?

Is entering into life the same as being saved?
 
Cameron143 said:
Did you enter into life by keeping the commandments? How?

Is entering into life the same as being saved?
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Entering into life is not a magic moment where nothing more matters. Jesus spoke of a narrow gate and a hard way that leads unto life (Matthew 7:13–14, ASV). It is a path walked, not a word spoken once.

He said clearly, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). He also said, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me” (Matthew 16:24). That is a changed heart and a new direction.

Life is tied to perseverance. Jesus said, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). And again, “If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples” (John 8:31), and “He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life” meaning a continual sharing in Him (John 6:54).

So entering into life and being saved are not two different roads. Salvation is entering into the life of Christ, and that life is walked in faith, obedience, and endurance until the end.
 
vassal said:
Jesus did not reduce His commandments to one narrow idea.
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Yes, He did reduce it to one narrow idea as you choose to call it- even though that one idea is eternal life through God's grace - and it is Jesus Christ alone the Savior:

[Heb 7:15-19, 22, 25 KJV]
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God. ...
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. ...
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
 
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