Loss of salvation???

[James456]

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph1:13


And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph4:30


So to some, the unsaved are sealed for the day of redemption
My oh my

 

[Ouch]

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph1:13


And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph4:30


So to some, the unsaved are sealed for the day of redemption
My oh my

Is that for me to respond to?

 

[mailmandan]

If he refuses to respond and plainly answer the question, I will inevitably have to come to the conclusion he agrees with ouch but doesn't want to say so. Its a mystery to me, that people who lay so much emphasis on the Holy Spirit could actually believe He resides in the unsaved/the unsaved can receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and speak in tongues. That would have to be one of the greatest errors of belief in the Christian faith in my view.

One of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the truth that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and were saved before water baptism is that Balaam's donkey also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either.

I have heard that argument a few times over the years on various Christian forum sites by folks who attend the church of Christ. The Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey in (Numbers 22:28-30) in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17) or the spiritual gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12) which is only for believers who are human.

 

[mailmandan]

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph1:13

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph4:30

So, to some, the unsaved are sealed for the day of redemption
My oh my

Amen! In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[James456]

One of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the truth that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and were saved before water baptism is that Balaam's donkey also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either.

I have heard that argument a few times over the years on various Christian forum sites by folks who attend the church of Christ. The Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey in (Numbers 22:28-30) in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17) or the spiritual gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12) which is only for believers who are human.

Yes, believing the unsaved are sealed for the day of redemption is incredulous. A testimony in my view, to taking a couple of verses, rigidly and inflexibly, and then bringing them into conflict with much other scripture. The bible must be read as one cohesive whole

 

[mailmandan]

LOL, I'm watching to see if Wansvic tells him the truth also to see if he gets put on ignore as well.

Really is strange who people really think that we can be reborn and never get rid of our sins!!

Why do you think that is so?

James 456 made these statments, "The unsaved CANNOT receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and speak in tongues."

And right in front of his face, Acts 10 GOD filled the unsaved with the Holy Ghost!!

He also said this, "Your inflexible rule book has left you in a very bad place indeed"

GODS RULES DO NOT CHANGE!!!

GOD knows our hearts and HE will do as HE please.

GOD knew Uzzah's heart, tried to do good, problem is GOD told NO ONE TO TOUCH THE ARK.

2 Samuel 6,
6 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.

7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

GOD knew the Gentiles heart and knew they were going to follow Peter to the water!

Will you?

 

[James456]

That did make me smile, or should I say laugh

 

[Ouch]

Amen! In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

You really think that people who have never had sins removed with enter Heaven?

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

How are they going to enter if GOD doen'st even hear them?

 

[Ouch]

Who is the dead horse?

 

[GWH]

Yea that's what he said!

So out of all of these verses which one does Paul SPECIFICLY tell us how to be reborn?

Paul, who had the mind of Christ (1Cor. 2:16), teaching that we are saved via faith, not by works including both PC and WB (Eph. 2:8-10, Rom. 2:25-29, 3:21-5:1, Col. 2:11-12).

You assume to much, Peter never changed his message and you can't show me where he did.

If he did it would have been real clear since he has the keys to Heaven.

So where does he change up and say we no longer need to be bapitzed to remove our sins and no longer need the Holy Ghost.

Where do Peter specficly say all we need is faith???

You are right Peters message does aline with Pauls as they were the same.

So you still will not accept that Paul letters were to churchs!!!

Whether due to your accidental deficiency of understanding grammar ("you still will not accept that Paul letters were to churchs")
or to intentional ignorance of Scripture ("out of all of these verses which one does Paul SPECIFICLY tell us how to be reborn?"),
I have led you to water but cannot make you drink.

I try to limit repetition in order to avoid argumentation (Tit. 3:9-11), so until the Lord enlightens you via the Scriptures
I shared, once again I wish you happy trails and will move on.

 

[Ouch]

Whether due to your accidental deficiency of understanding grammar ("you still will not accept that Paul letters were to churchs")
or to intentional ignorance of Scripture ("out of all of these verses which one does Paul SPECIFICLY tell us how to be reborn?"),
I have led you to water but cannot make you drink.

I try to limit repetition in order to avoid argumentation (Tit. 3:9-11), so until the Lord enlightens you via the Scriptures
I shared, once again I wish you happy trails and will move on.

Seeds have been planted, now were moving on.

GOD BLESS YOU IN YOUR WALK.

 

[mailmandan]

You really think that people who have never had sins removed with enter Heaven?

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

How are they going to enter if GOD doen'st even hear them?

 

[GWH]

You are reading things into the text that just do not exist.

I said nothing about Peter being a pope. And clearly my point was Jesus knew what He was doing when He tasked Peter with presenting the gospel.

Also, even a cursory reading of Acts 15 reveals Peter was at no time in support of requiring circumsion. Thus, needed no correction.

Your belief that water baptism is a work is faulty.

I am glad you do not view Peter as the only disciple having the key/Gospel.
I am sorry you seem to substitute WB for PC, when Paul indicated that both are works meant to signify SB and SC.

 

[GWH]

Seeds have been planted, now were moving on.

GOD BLESS YOU IN YOUR WALK.

Ditto. I imagine we will walk into each other again on CC at some point as we have been doing.

 

[Ouch]

You really think this is a joke?

I like joking around my self, matter a fact too much.

But not when it comes to GODS word.

Please consided what I shared.

 

[mailmandan]

You really think this is a joke?

I like joking around my self, matter a fact too much.

But not when it comes to GODS word.

Please consided what I shared.

The joke is on you and not on God's word.

 

[Ouch]

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph1:13


And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph4:30


So to some, the unsaved are sealed for the day of redemption
My oh my

Putting people on ignore is the best, you can say what ever you like and no one to challange you.

So you're always right.

 

[Ouch]

The joke is on you and not on God's word.

Good so you like the verse I shared, that's all that matters.

 

[James456]

At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly Acts10:1&2



So Cornelius was a devout man, God fearing, who prayed regularly, but had not yet heard the Gospel of Jesus. His prayers had been heard by God(verse4)

But the legalistic view, I imagine, is, the man’s sins could not have been forgiven as he had not yet been baptised in water.

Jesus told Zaccheus salvation had come to his house, yet he had not been baptised, but he had, had a change of heart. Jesus forgave people their sins, without insisting they were firstly baptised in water. He told people their faith had saved them.

So that is what mattered most to Jesus, and was the deciding factor, faith and a change of heart.



Acts 2:38 was NOT the experience of Cornelius and his household, the ‘’rulebook’’ of Acts2:38 had not been followed.

Legalists never understand what matters most

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus did not tell them to baptized in water in Jesus name.

Baptize held several meanings in that day... It also could mean to immerse someone into some person.
Like what the news media does today with certain people.

An example?

They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea." 1 Corinthians 10:2​

Outside of Israel, many nations had no idea who Jesus was.
They needed to become baptized into knowing Jesus.

Again... Jesus never told them to baptize in water.
Matter of fact, Jesus taught just the opposite!

On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: ​

“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have ​

heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be ​

baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

We can not ignore these realities as to cover for the embarrassment that the errors Christians over the years kept on passing down from one generation to the next. Just look at the Catholics. Accurate scriptural understanding does not matter to many of them.

The commission is to both to teach and baptize, not teach by baptizing. Also, the baptism you spoke of in Acts 2 was Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit. The baptism that places us into Christ is done by the Spirit...1 Corinthians 12:13. Two different operations of the Spirit done by 2 different members of the Godhead.