Loss of salvation???

[James456]

I'm missing something.

You are saying that faith makes you righteous/justified state before God right?

I'm saying faith alone does not save anyone.

Now your saying I'm deflecting?

How?

Im missing something, you not answering a simple question
Is someone in a justified/righteous state before God in a saved state?

Keep deflecting if you must

 

[Ouch]

Because according to you there are two baptisms, WB & SB, your question should have been, "How can a person be saved
without being WBed?", and the answer is: The same way a person can be saved without being PCed per Rom. 2:25-29, Col. 2:11-13).

I didn't die for you, I'm not saying anything JUST REPEATING WHAT JESUS SAID.

John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

NOTICE IN BOTH CASES,

1. Born of Water AND, AND, AND Born of Spirit.

NOTE, YOU NEVER EXPLAINED TO ME SPECIFLY HOW IN ROMANS PAUL TOLD US HOW TO BE SAVED.

 

[Ouch]

Im missing something, you not answering a simple question
Is someone in a justified/righteous state before God in a saved state?

Keep deflecting if you must

You are saying that faith makes you righteous/justified state before God right?

I'm saying faith alone does not save anyone.

 

[GWH]

Paul was but does not matter.

Show me where Paul DISCOURAGED speaking in tongures.

Why do you even speak of speaking in tougues if you don't belive in it?


I'm a little slow sometimes and need some help.

This is how Peter says we are to be reborn.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I will break it down.

/what we need to do,
1. repent.
2. get bapitzed in JESUS name to remove our sins.
3. we shall receive he gift fo the Holy Ghost.

This is where I need help,

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Can you explain specificly how Paul tells us what we have to do to be saved?

I just don't see it.

Of course it matters that Paul was physically circumcised (PCed) but said that what matters is spiritual circumcision (SC)!

Paul DISCOURAGED speaking in tongures (SIT) in 1Cor. 14:19.

I speak in the English tongue because God has not given me the gift of speaking a language I have not learned aka SIT.

Re "I'm a little slow sometimes and need some help.": Amen, but I would call it stubborn as a mule.

This is how Peter says we are to be reborn after meeting with Paul: Acts 15:7-11.

 

[James456]

You are saying that faith makes you righteous/justified state before God right?

I'm saying faith alone does not save anyone.

No, you must know what Im asking, Ive asked you plenty of times now, and everyone can see you know what I am plainly asking, yet you refuse to answer the simple question don't you

 

[GWH]

No, you must know what Im asking, Ive asked you plenty of times now, and everyone can see you know what I am plainly asking, yet you refuse to answer the simple question don't you

Stiff-necked as a mule (Exo. 34:9--has some Jewish blood?)

 

[James456]

Stiff-necked as a mule (Exo. 34:9--has some Jewish blood?)

When I went to a church with his mindset when I was young, it was never stated from the pulpit Christ is our righteousness before God, not obeying the law.

 

[GWH]

When I went to a church with his mindset when I was young, it was never stated from the pulpit Christ is our righteousness before God, not obeying the law.

And I never interacted personally with folks who believed like him before joining CC,
because I was raised in the SBC which clearly taught WB as signifying SB.

 

[Ouch]

Of course it matters that Paul was physically circumcised (PCed) but said that what matters is spiritual circumcision (SC)!

Paul DISCOURAGED speaking in tongures (SIT) in 1Cor. 14:19.

I speak in the English tongue because God has not given me the gift of speaking a language I have not learned aka SIT.

Re "I'm a little slow sometimes and need some help.": Amen, but I would call it stubborn as a mule.

This is how Peter says we are to be reborn after meeting with Paul: Acts 15:7-11.

You say Paul descourgaed people?

1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Looks to me like Paul was saying he would rather speak with understanding in stead of in the spirit so people could understand!!

For sure not descoragein people from speaking in tongues.

FYI, when GOD fills you with HIS spirit it's not a different languare where does this stuff come from???

1 Corinthians 14
King James Version
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

As you can see not different languares but to GOD ONLY NO MAN UNDERSTAND.

I really do understand HIS word what I don't understand and a little slow about is trying to understand why people say GODS word says something that it doesn't.

FYI, I am stubborn and TRUE to HIS WORD, I don't make up stories.

So now were off of Romans and you proving those statement tell us how to be reborn on to jumping to Acts 15?

Acts 15:7-11
King James Version
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

That's a little better, as we can tell since their hearts were right (speaking about he gentils) JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost just like JESUS filled the 120 in the upper room in Acts 2:4.

Which made the Gentiles same as the Jews.

NOTE after JESUS filled them, they were COMMANDED to be baptized.

So is your heart right? Has JESUS filled you?

 

[Ouch]

No, you must know what Im asking, Ive asked you plenty of times now, and everyone can see you know what I am plainly asking, yet you refuse to answer the simple question don't you

LOL, grand standing? I told you I don't understand!!

I asked you to expalin, I anwered your questons with the information I had.

I don't have the abilty to read your mind.

I SAY it's you who are deflecting.

SHOW US ALL where faith alone removese our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost!!!!

OR DON'T!! BECASUE YOU CAN'T!!

You will not accept that Paul is speaking to church's and NO where does Paul tell us how to be reborn so you jump to asking questions.

 

[Ouch]

And I never interacted personally with folks who believed like him before joining CC,
because I was raised in the SBC which clearly taught WB as signifying SB.

That is sad, but JESUS said everyone will hear the message before HE returns.

 

[James456]

LOL, grand standing? I told you I don't understand!!

I asked you to expalin, I anwered your questons with the information I had.

I don't have the abilty to read your mind.

I SAY it's you who are deflecting.

SHOW US ALL where faith alone removese our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost!!!!

OR DON'T!! BECASUE YOU CAN'T!!

You will not accept that Paul is speaking to church's and NO where does Paul tell us how to be reborn so you jump to asking questions.

As you refuse to answer my question we must leave it there

 

[Cameron143]

I already showed you why not.

So what would a baptism look like? Laying on of hands? Simply words spoken? And how does an individual spiritually baptized another? Even if they went through whatever motions you think are called for, isn't it the Spirit that does the spiritual work?

 

[James456]

As a baptist minister of fifty years said:

‘’Although baptism appears to be linked to salvation at times in the bible we are saved/righteous by grace through faith.’’

Its all over the NT.



Rom1:17, Rom3:21&22, Rom3:28, Rom4:5, Rom10:4, Gal:2-15&16, Gal2:21, Gal3:24, Phil3:9, Col1:22&23, Eph2:8&9, Rom5:1, Rom10:10, etc

 

[Ouch]

As you refuse to answer my question we must leave it there

Yep, leaving without you backing up with HIS word what comes out of your mouth.

Just another finger pointer.

 

[James456]

Yep, leaving without you backing up with HIS word what comes out of your mouth.

Just another finger pointer.

I will tell you this, one minister said:
85% of evangelicals do not understand the justification/sanctification process
Having had much experience of those churches, I would consider that figure accurate.
People concentrate on a few select scriptures, hinge everything on them, but fail to see the bigger picture of the message.
And it shouldn't happen, because I avidly believe in all the gifts of the Spirit for today, and know it is the Holy Spirit who leads us into understanding spiritual truth
It is possible, to have great fervency of beliefs, so great, you can only see the things that matter so much to you, so you cannot see the bigger picture

 

[Wansvic]

Obviously the filling is not going to occur before believing and of course they are two separate events. Doh!

Paul's question reveals he expects the baptism of the Spirit to occur upon believing not upon some later event which the scriptures never so much as allude to let alone define.

Sad you feel compelled to ridicule when I would venture to say you know exactly what I'm saying.

Again, whether the word "Since" or "When" is used in Acts 19:2 does not change what Paul's question conveys. And that is, people do not experience receiving the Holy Ghost the instant they choose to believe the gospel message. The account actually goes on to confirm that the Holy Ghost was not received at the point of belief (verse 4-5) but when Paul laids hands upon the men in verse 6.


Acts 19:2-7
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

 

[mailmandan]

As a baptist minister of fifty years said:

‘’Although baptism appears to be linked to salvation at times in the bible we are saved/righteous by grace through faith.’’

Its all over the NT.

Rom1:17, Rom3:21&22, Rom3:28, Rom4:5, Rom10:4, Gal:2-15&16, Gal2:21, Gal3:24, Phil3:9, Col1:22&23, Eph2:8&9, Rom5:1, Rom10:10, etc

There are a handful of alleged proof texts that certain people use to try and prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, yet after a careful examination of each of those texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, athough they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, those texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized. (Acts 10:43-47) Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation. (Acts 10:43)

 

[Ouch]

I will tell you this, one minister said:
85% of evangelicals do not understand the justification/sanctification process
Having had much experience of those churches, I would consider that figure accurate.
People concentrate on a few select scriptures, hinge everything on them, but fail to see the bigger picture of the message.
And it shouldn't happen, because I avidly believe in all the gifts of the Spirit for today, and know it is the Holy Spirit who leads us into understanding spiritual truth
It is possible, to have great fervency of beliefs, so great, you can only see the things that matter so much to you, so you cannot see the bigger picture

Bigger picture?

So who are you going to follow?

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

GODS word or men?

85% 55% 90% wonder how many are heading down the wrong path.

How about following the few?

The first message that JESUS promised to be preached in Jerusalem.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The question still remains, how does faith alone get rid of our sins and fill us with HIS spirit?

It doen't, it's that simple.

You have seen, Paul is not talking to the unsaved and you can not find one place in those letters how to be reborn.

We all have a choice, it's beteen you and JESUS alone.

 

[James456]

Bigger picture?

So who are you going to follow?

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

GODS word or men?

85% 55% 90% wonder how many are heading down the wrong path.

How about following the few?

The first message that JESUS promised to be preached in Jerusalem.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The question still remains, how does faith alone get rid of our sins and fill us with HIS spirit?

It doen't, it's that simple.

You have seen, Paul is not talking to the unsaved and you can not find one place in those letters how to be reborn.

We all have a choice, it's beteen you and JESUS alone.

Why should I even answer a question of yours when you cannot answer one question asked of you?
A baptism of repentance for sins was in place under JTB when Christ walked this earth. Yet Jesus forgave people their sins instantly, without requiring someone to firstly be baptised by John
You think God does not have the right to do the same today?