The book of Job

[tttallison]

In Job 1, satan was restricted from attacking Job's person. satan killed Job's children and utterly wasted all Job had. This occurred in one day.

In Job 2, satan was allowed physical access to Job, but was stayed from killing him.

The physical attack on Job went on for many days ... possibly months ... and did not end until chapter 38 when God spoke to Job.

Throughout his suffering, Job claimed he would trust God for God is his salvation (Job 13:15-16) ... Job looked to God in heaven and cried tears to Him (Job 16:19-20) ... Job looked to his Redeemer in hope, knowing he would see Him (Job 19:25-27).

.

Yes, Job said he was trusting God for his salvation. The problem was Job thought God would save him because Job was so righteous, and not because of God's righteousness. God's righteousness is Jesus Christ. God asked Job if Job was condemning God so that Job might be righteous.

Job 40:8 "Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?"

Job 40:14 "Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee."

 

[christophernyc]

Continued--

RESULTS OF THE TWO TESTS

First Test Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, and said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

Second Test Job 2:8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes. (Notice that Job does not bless God. This was what Satan had said, that Job would "not bless" [lo-barak] God to his face.)


After the second test Job sat down and said nothing. The worshipping and blessing of God is missing. When Job finally said something it was in reply to his wife’s question, in which Job replied with a question, “shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?

We no longer hear God praising Job, saying Job is perfect and upright and retaining his integrity.

First Test Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. (Job is exonerated.)

Second Test Job 2:10 ---In all this did not Job sin with his lips. (In this second test Job has not sinned with his lips, but what about his heart. Remember when Job was speaking of his sons, and said, they may have cursed God in their hearts. What about Job's heart?

Would you say that your interpretation of the Book of Job is because you are comparing it to how you may have come to know the Lord? From what you have written, you see Job as a kind of prodigal son? A story of a lost person coming to faith for the first time? Is that your position?

 

[tttallison]

Would you say that your interpretation of the Book of Job is because you are comparing it to how you may have come to know the Lord? From what you have written, you see Job as a kind of prodigal son? A story of a lost person coming to faith for the first time? Is that your position?

I pictured Job as someone in the neighborhood who is a very moral person. One who stands far above many Christians one might know. One who would say that he feels that his good deeds far out way his faults. One who feels he is going to go to heaven because he is not a bad person. Have you not heard of preachers who preached for many years and yet did not have a personal relationship with God.

My interpretation is not based on the accepted narrative, nor on what I feel, but rather on what the scripture actually says, and that is after comparing scripture with scripture.

For instance, Job is called a servant by God, and Job declares the type of servant he is.

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

And then we are told a hired servant cannot partake of the Passover Lamb, and that Lamb is Christ.

Exo 12:45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
Lev 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

If Job is a hireling and the hireling cannot partake of Christ, what does that say about Job?

If Job is depending on his own righteousness to save him, do you think Job is saved.

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
Job 35:2Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

I read these verses and they don't agree with the accepted narrative.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes, Job said he was trusting God for his salvation. The problem was Job thought God would save him because Job was so righteous, and not because of God's righteousness. God's righteousness is Jesus Christ. God asked Job if Job was condemning God so that Job might be righteous.

Job 40:8 "Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?"

Job 40:14 "Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee."

Job 40:1-14

1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,

2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.

12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Beginning in chapter 38, God finally spoke to Job. God revealed His power and might in His creation, as well as His intimate knowledge of that which He has created.

Job's response was to declare his vileness before God and to shut his mouth.

God then told Job that if he (Job) could do as stated in vss 8-13, then God would tell Job that his own right hand could save him.

Job knew he could not save himself. He had already stated that his Redeemer was God and not himself.

Job 19:25-27

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

From these verses, we understand that Job knew his Redeemer ... that he would see God with his eyes ... that he believed in the resurrection.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I pictured Job as someone in the neighborhood who is a very moral person. One who stands far above many Christians one might know. One who would say that he feels that his good deeds far out way his faults. One who feels he is going to go to heaven because he is not a bad person. Have you not heard of preachers who preached for many years and yet did not have a personal relationship with God.

My interpretation is not based on the accepted narrative, nor on what I feel, but rather on what the scripture actually says, and that is after comparing scripture with scripture.

For instance, Job is called a servant by God, and Job declares the type of servant he is.

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

And then we are told a hired servant cannot partake of the Passover Lamb, and that Lamb is Christ.

Exo 12:45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
Lev 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

If Job is a hireling and the hireling cannot partake of Christ, what does that say about Job?

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

the word "servant" in Job 1:8 is translated from the Hebrew word ʿeḇeḏ.

in Exodus 12:45, the "hired servant" is translated from the Hebrew word śāḵîr.

Also, please note the instruction in Exodus 12:44:

Exodus 12:44 But every man's servant [Hebrew = ʿeḇeḏ] that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.

The servant (ʿeḇeḏ) could partake of the passover if he was circumcised.


The record Leviticus 22:10 relates to the portion of an offering which is set aside for the priest. Those of the household of the priests could eat, and God placed restriction on who could eat:

Leviticus 22:10-15

10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

11 But if the priest buy any soul with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat.

12 If the priest's daughter also be married unto a stranger, she may not eat of an offering of the holy things.

13 But if the priest's daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father's house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father's meat: but there shall no stranger eat thereof.

14 And if a man eat of the holy thing unwittingly, then he shall put the fifth part thereof unto it, and shall give it unto the priest with the holy thing.

15 And they shall not profane the holy things of the children of Israel, which they offer unto the LORD

look at vs 12-13 – if the priest's daughter is married to a stranger, she is not to partake of the offering ... but if she is a widow or divorced and has no child she is able to again partake.

vs 14 – if someone eats of the priest's portion unknowingly, he is to restore plus 20%. The priest's portion is set aside for the priest and his household.


One thing you need to understand is that Job lived long before God gave instruction to Moses. Job was not in covenant with God under what we refer to as the "Old Covenant".

We know that Job made offering and sacrifice to God continually (Job 1:5) which is an indication that Job was a worshipper of God.

If Job is depending on his own righteousness to save him, do you think Job is saved.

I do not believe Job depended on his own righteousness.

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Job 35:2Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

I read these verses and they don't agree with the accepted narrative.

In Job 27, Job was responding to his friends who kept insisting that Job had sinned. Job did not believe he had sinned; however Job did ask God to show him where/when he had sinned if he had sinned.

In Job 35, Elihu accused Job of having stated he was more righteous than God. Job had not stated that he was more righteous than God, but that is what Elihu gleaned from what Job had stated to his friends.

I have already explained my understanding of this verse here.

.

 

[Suze]

We all must be tested to see are weaknesses. That's what book of Job is about.
Even Jesus was tested in the wilderness, and He was showing to us that we must go through.
We mature while we're suffering. like the longer you leave gold in the fire the purer it becomes.

Romans 5:3
Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;

Isaiah 45:9
“Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Luke 9:23
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

Yes , we r all Job .

 

[Suze]

Chapter 4 verses 3-5 , Job has sympathised with others who have had troubles , he's told them to stick with God , to trust in the Lord etc , it's easy to say the right words when we r standing on the outside looking in at someone else's sufferings . How do we cope when we r the one suffering ? Do we take our own advice ? Do we cling tighter to God as we have told others to do so ? Maybe Job needed to feel real suffering , maybe prior to this he had never had a days trouble in his life before . After his sufferings , he will better understand the sufferings of others . He probably did , exactly what his three friends did to him , to other people without ever having any real understanding of what they were going through . He knows now as do we all I'm sure .

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Chapter 4 verses 3-5 , Job has sympathised with others who have had troubles , he's told them to stick with God , to trust in the Lord etc , it's easy to say the right words when we r standing on the outside looking in at someone else's sufferings . How do we cope when we r the one suffering ? Do we take our own advice ? Do we cling tighter to God as we have told others to do so ? Maybe Job needed to feel real suffering , maybe prior to this he had never had a days trouble in his life before . After his sufferings , he will better understand the sufferings of others . He probably did , exactly what his three friends did to him , to other people without ever having any real understanding of what they were going through . He knows now as do we all I'm sure .

throughout Job's suffering, he had examined himself and did not see where he had sinned, so he asked God to show him where he had sinned. Job had no clue he was under attack from satan.

even at the end of the book, Job, his family, and friends believed it was God Who had afflicted him:

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

they all attributed to God the attack Job had endured from satan.

the antics of satan were revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ when He walked on the earth ... and then further by the writers of the epistles which we can read.

so when we go through trying times, we are also to examine ourselves to see if we have strayed and if we not strayed yet we are under attack from satan, pray to God for His help so we can endure the onslaught of our adversary. He has equipped us (Eph 6:10-18) and He will help us in our time of need.

if we have strayed, repent and turn back to God (1 John 1:9).

.

 

[Suze]

throughout Job's suffering, he had examined himself and did not see where he had sinned, so he asked God to show him where he had sinned. Job had no clue he was under attack from satan.

even at the end of the book, Job, his family, and friends believed it was God Who had afflicted him:

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

they all attributed to God the attack Job had endured from satan.

the antics of satan were revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ when He walked on the earth ... and then further by the writers of the epistles which we can read.

so when we go through trying times, we are also to examine ourselves to see if we have strayed and if we not strayed yet we are under attack from satan, pray to God for His help so we can endure the onslaught of our adversary. He has equipped us (Eph 6:10-18) and He will help us in our time of need.

if we have strayed, repent and turn back to God (1 John 1:9).

.

Job chapter one verse 21 , also chapter two verse 10 , chapter ten verse 8 , all of chapter twelve , chapter nineteen verses 6-21 , chapter twenty three all of it .

 

[Suze]

Exodus Ch 4 , V 11 .
Deuteronomy Ch 32 , V 39.
Amos Ch 3 , V 6 .
Haggai Ch 2 , V 17 .
Hebrews Ch 12 , V 5-7 .

 

[christophernyc]

I pictured Job as someone in the neighborhood who is a very moral person. One who stands far above many Christians one might know. One who would say that he feels that his good deeds far out way his faults. One who feels he is going to go to heaven because he is not a bad person. Have you not heard of preachers who preached for many years and yet did not have a personal relationship with God.

My interpretation is not based on the accepted narrative, nor on what I feel, but rather on what the scripture actually says, and that is after comparing scripture with scripture.

For instance, Job is called a servant by God, and Job declares the type of servant he is.

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

And then we are told a hired servant cannot partake of the Passover Lamb, and that Lamb is Christ.

Exo 12:45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
Lev 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

If Job is a hireling and the hireling cannot partake of Christ, what does that say about Job?

If Job is depending on his own righteousness to save him, do you think Job is saved.

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
Job 35:2Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

I read these verses and they don't agree with the accepted narrative.

But do you view Job's ordeal as one that coincides with your own personal coming-to-faith salvation story?

Also, can you please explain for us what you mean exactly by "accepted narrative". Can you please at least outline or paraphrase what you mean by the "accepted narrative" of the story of Job?

 

[tttallison]

Job 40:1-14

1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,

2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.

12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Beginning in chapter 38, God finally spoke to Job. God revealed His power and might in His creation, as well as His intimate knowledge of that which He has created.

Job's response was to declare his vileness before God and to shut his mouth.

God then told Job that if he (Job) could do as stated in vss 8-13, then God would tell Job that his own right hand could save him.

Job knew he could not save himself. He had already stated that his Redeemer was God and not himself.

Job 19:25-27

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

From these verses, we understand that Job knew his Redeemer ... that he would see God with his eyes ... that he believed in the resurrection.

.

What you are saying is that all orthodox jews are saved, because most of them believe what Job believed. Yet Paul said, "my hearts desire for Israel is that they might be saved, for they have a zeal for God, but without knowledge, and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves to God's righteousness.

 

[tttallison]

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

the word "servant" in Job 1:8 is translated from the Hebrew word ʿeḇeḏ.

in Exodus 12:45, the "hired servant" is translated from the Hebrew word śāḵîr.

Also, please note the instruction in Exodus 12:44:

Exodus 12:44 But every man's servant [Hebrew = ʿeḇeḏ] that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.

The servant (ʿeḇeḏ) could partake of the passover if he was circumcised.


The record Leviticus 22:10 relates to the portion of an offering which is set aside for the priest. Those of the household of the priests could eat, and God placed restriction on who could eat:

Leviticus 22:10-15

10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

11 But if the priest buy any soul with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat.

12 If the priest's daughter also be married unto a stranger, she may not eat of an offering of the holy things.

13 But if the priest's daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father's house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father's meat: but there shall no stranger eat thereof.

14 And if a man eat of the holy thing unwittingly, then he shall put the fifth part thereof unto it, and shall give it unto the priest with the holy thing.

15 And they shall not profane the holy things of the children of Israel, which they offer unto the LORD

look at vs 12-13 – if the priest's daughter is married to a stranger, she is not to partake of the offering ... but if she is a widow or divorced and has no child she is able to again partake.

vs 14 – if someone eats of the priest's portion unknowingly, he is to restore plus 20%. The priest's portion is set aside for the priest and his household.


One thing you need to understand is that Job lived long before God gave instruction to Moses. Job was not in covenant with God under what we refer to as the "Old Covenant".

We know that Job made offering and sacrifice to God continually (Job 1:5) which is an indication that Job was a worshipper of God.

Yes, God called Job a servant. God also called Nebuchadnezzar a servant. Job explained to us the type of servant he was, which was a hired servant.

What evidence do you have that Job lived long before Moses? The language is late and not early.

I do not believe Job depended on his own righteousness.

In Job 27, Job was responding to his friends who kept insisting that Job had sinned. Job did not believe he had sinned; however Job did ask God to show him where/when he had sinned if he had sinned.

In Job 35, Elihu accused Job of having stated he was more righteous than God. Job had not stated that he was more righteous than God, but that is what Elihu gleaned from what Job had stated to his friends.

I have already explained my understanding of this verse here.

Isn't telling God that he would laugh at the trial of the innocence the same as declaring God unrighteous?

 

[tttallison]

But do you view Job's ordeal as one that coincides with your own personal coming-to-faith salvation story?

No I did not view Job's ordeal as one that coincides with mine. I never had a reason to feel self-righteous.

Also, can you please explain for us what you mean exactly by "accepted narrative". Can you please at least outline or paraphrase what you mean by the "accepted narrative" of the story of Job?

The accepted narrative is that 1. Job had been accepted by God from the beginning of the story, or another way to put it, if Job had died in the first chapter he would have been on his way to heaven. 2. That the three friends had said something wrong. 3. That Elihu was a brash young man.

 

[christophernyc]

The accepted narrative is that 1. Job had been accepted by God from the beginning of the story, or another way to put it, if Job had died in the first chapter he would have been on his way to heaven. 2. That the three friends had said something wrong. 3. That Elihu was a brash young man.

Based on other posts of yours, you believe Job's 3 friends spoke what was right. Is that correct? So if that is your belief then how do you reconcile your point #2 with what is written in Job 42:7-8?

7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. 8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

Do you agree or disagree with God's assessment of what Job's 3 friends have spoken? What is your position?

Also, regarding Elihu, what is written about him in the text **four** times is that he is burning with anger. That is what is driving him. Anger. He also hands out judgments and insults while speaking condescendingly to his elders. The brashness is self-evident if you read what is written in the text. This is not a matter of opinion or interpretation as the author clearly included these facts as part of the exposition.

 

[tttallison]

Based on other posts of yours, you believe Job's 3 friends spoke what was right. Is that correct? So if that is your belief then how do you reconcile your point #2 with what is written in Job 42:7-8?

7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. 8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

Do you agree or disagree with God's assessment of what Job's 3 friends have spoken? What is your position?

Your error lies in the fact that God did not say that the three friends had spoken something wrong about God, but rather that the three friends had neglected to say the right thing. Elihu said basically the same thing about the three friends that God said. Elihu said, Job 32:3 "Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job."

"Have not spoken the thing that is right", and "had found no answer" are basically saying the same thing. The situation had changed from the time Elihu spoke to the time God spoke. When Elihu spoke Job had not yet made his confession, but he had made his confession by the time God spoke. What Job said that was right, was in essence that Job's righteousness was as filthy rags. (Job had said he was vile, and that he abhorred himself. This is the right thing that Job had said, and the thing that the three friends had not said.

Why did God tell Job to make a sacrifice for his three friends? It was because Job had prayed to God that someone would plead for him. Job 16:21 O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!

We know that the only sacrifice that saves anyone is that of Jesus. Job sacrificed for his sons and they all died.

Also, regarding Elihu, what is written about him in the text **four** times is that he is burning with anger. That is what is driving him. Anger. He also hands out judgments and insults while speaking condescendingly to his elders. The brashness is self-evident if you read what is written in the text. This is not a matter of opinion or interpretation as the author clearly included these facts as part of the exposition.

I believe as others that Elihu is the author of the book of Job.

The fact that Elihu had wrath only points to the truth that Elihu was speaking in the place of God. Job had requested Elihu and God filled the request.

Job 33:6 "Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay."

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What you are saying is that all orthodox jews are saved, because most of them believe what Job believed.

nope ... I have never stated what you claim.

Job 40:

8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.

12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.


vs 8 – if Job could disannul the judgment of God ... or condemn God ...

vs 9 – if Job had an arm like God ... or if Job could thunder with a voice like God ...

vs 10 – if Job could deck himself with majesty and excellency and array himself with glory and beauty as God is in His majesty, excellence, glory and beauty ...

vs 11 – if Job could abase with a glance every one that is proud ...

vs 12 – if Job could bring low the proud and tread down the wicked ...

vs 13 – if Job could hide them in the dust never to arise ...

vs 14 – if Job could do the things described in the above verses, then Job could save himself.

What God revealed to Job here (as well as what is stated from chapter 38 to 41) is that that God's ways are so far above man's ways, and it is God alone Who is the Creator of all, Who knows the ways of all creation, Who is more powerful than the most powerful creature.

Job had stated in Job 40:5 that he would not open his mouth. Job listened to what God had to say and when Job finally did reply, it was to claim that his knowledge of God had been increased to the point where he said I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee (Job 42:5). God restored Job and blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning (Job 42:12).

Yet Paul said, "my hearts desire for Israel is that they might be saved, for they have a zeal for God, but without knowledge, and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves to God's righteousness.

yes, Paul had great yearning for his "kinsmen according to the flesh" (Ro 9:3) ... that they would turn to the Lord Jesus Christ and receive the blessing promised by God.

.

 

[Lovette]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

The book of Job answered the fundamental philosophical question - why does God allow evil happen to good people? Actually, from a secular point of view, the answer is quite simple and obvious - evil people don't play by the rules, they have no moral compass; good people play by the rules, they're bound by their moral compass. But if you're interested in God's point of view, it lies within the book of Job.

 

[tttallison]

The book of Job answered the fundamental philosophical question - why does God allow evil happen to good people? Actually, from a secular point of view, the answer is quite simple and obvious - evil people don't play by the rules, they have no moral compass; good people play by the rules, they're bound by their moral compass. But if you're interested in God's point of view, it lies within the book of Job.

Herein lies the problem. There is no such thing as a good person. There is none righteous, no not one. All have come short of the glory of God. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Job exalted himself above God.

Job uses the word I twelve times in Job 29. If a person can't see Job's pride in this chapter then they will give him a pass for anything.

Job 29:11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

Job 29:20 My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.

Consider the difference between Job and Moses.

Moses said,--

Deu 32:1-3 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Job said,--

Job 29:21-29 Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel. After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them. And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain. If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down. I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that comforteth the mourners.

Moses attributed greatness to God.

Job attributed greatness to Job.

Pro 30:21 For three things the earth is disquieted, and for four which it cannot bear: For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat;

Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

Job 9:30 If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean; Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.

 

[Lovette]

Herein lies the problem. There is no such thing as a good person. There is none righteous, no not one. All have come short of the glory of God. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Job exalted himself above God.

Job uses the word I twelve times in Job 29. If a person can't see Job's pride in this chapter then they will give him a pass for anything.

Job 29:11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

Job 29:20 My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.

Consider the difference between Job and Moses.

Moses said,--

Deu 32:1-3 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Job said,--

Job 29:21-29 Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel. After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them. And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain. If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down. I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that comforteth the mourners.

Moses attributed greatness to God.

Job attributed greatness to Job.

Pro 30:21 For three things the earth is disquieted, and for four which it cannot bear: For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat;

Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

Job 9:30 If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean; Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.

Job had been a humble servant, he never "exalted himself above God", he didn't even throw a temper tantrum at God like Moses did when the Israelites demanded water from the rock. In Job 1, Satan challenged God that Job only worshipped God for his wealth, he lost his prosperity, he'd lose faith in God. God accepted the challenge, removed the hedge of protection and gave Satan permission to wreak hovac in Job's life. What he experienced was a test of his faith, at no fault of his own. Then his three buddies came around, attributing his misfortune to his iniquity, which is basically like karma. Job rebuked them. So don't be like those three stooges sprinking salt on hiswound.