Loss of salvation???

[James456]

Again, How did they know they had not received the Holy Ghost?

They had already received the Holy Spirit but NOT the filling of the Spirit! or to you, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, they were already believers, so they were in saved states, you cannot be in a saved state unless the Spirit dwells in you(Rom8:9)

 

[James456]

You are missing the point. The Spiritual gift of tongues and the experience of tongues that manifest when a person is filled with the Holy Ghost are different manifestations. They serve different purposes. One experience happens to those when they become indwelt by the Spirit. (Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7) Whereas, not all will be used to speak God's message to a body of believers via the Spiritual gift of tongues.

Note Paul says that he who speaks in an unknown tongue is actually speaking directly to God. (1 Cor. 14:2) And those who are used in the Gift of Tongues speak a message to a church congregation which is afterward interpreted through someone operating in the Gift of Interpretation. (1 Cor 12)

All of the conversion accounts that provide the specific details indicate 100% spoke in tongues when the Holy Ghost came to dwell inside their bodies. If the statement that not all speak in tongues applied to this experience we would expect to see less than 100% speak in tongues. And that is just not the case.

Consider as well, how did the individuals in the Acts 8:12-18 know they had not received the Holy Ghost? What was missing? And what happened that left no doubt that He came to dwell inside of them later. Scripture implies what was missing in Acts 8 through confirmation in such accounts as Acts 10:43-48, and Acts 19:1-7.

Paul only stated ''Do all speak in tongues'' Not: Do all speak a message in tongues!!
I can assure you I was in a saved state before I spoke in tongues, but how well do you know the covenant believers are under?

 

[James456]

The account does not specifically record tongues provided the evidence. But clearly there was evidence:

See Acts 18 were it states Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, so he could do it.

Also, scripture reveals truth is known/established when 2-3 scriptures reveal the same thing. (Deut. 17:6, 19:15, Matt. 18:16, and 2 Cor. 13:1) Note the accounts that specifically reveal tongues is the evidence that accompanies the experience. (Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7) In addition, there are no accounts that show anything other than tongues as evidence of the initial infilling.

I got saved young, I then had consciousness of sin before God in a very real way, that is only possible if you are in a saved state.

 

[Genez]

See. I was right.
No crystal ball needed.

Want to know why those that believe in OSAS dislike the word MUST as in we MUST obey God?

More likely...

They disliked the way you were telling them they must obey God.

Were you the kind of kid that would tattletale on students when the teacher came back into the room?

 

[sawdust]

One experience happens to those when they become indwelt by the Spirit. (Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)

It's strange how you quote these verses but miss that Paul expected people to be filled with the Spirit upon believing the Gospel. The other thing that seems to get missed, in all the cases where tongues are mentioned specifically, unbelieving Jews are present.

Acts 19:2
and asked them, ‘Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?’ They answered, ‘No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.’

1 Corinthians 14:22
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.

Paul quotes Isaiah to come to this conclusion. "This people" being unbelieving Israel.

Isaiah 28:11
Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people,

 

[sawdust]

Anyone know what is happening with the "like" button? There is no variety anymore.

 

[Ouch]

In four out of five instances tongues are mentioned but not in the other one. And I repeat, Paul said:
''Do all speak in tongues?'' NOT ''Do all interpret tongues?''

Courious how many times does it have to say it for people to belive it?

Paul is speaking about in a church setting.

JESUS says in Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Notice JESUS says they shall speak with new tongues, not some shall.

Has JESUS filled you?

 

[James456]

Courious how many times does it have to say it for people to belive it?

Paul is speaking about in a church setting.

JESUS says in Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Notice JESUS says they shall speak with new tongues, not some shall.

Has JESUS filled you?

I do understand your mindset here, I was raised with it. All I can say is, in the church I went to the emphasis was all on the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, but I never got taught Paul's gospel message there, nor justification/sanctification for the believer. Much zeal, however....
Yes, I have received that filling, as confirmed by an internationally known evangelist

 

[Ouch]

I do understand your mindset here, I was raised with it. All I can say is, in the church I went to the emphasis was all on the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, but I never got taught Paul's gospel message there, nor justification/sanctification for the believer. Much zeal, however....
Yes, I have received that filling, as confirmed by an internationally known evangelist

AMEN, one big thing people don't understand is that Paul was speaking to churchs not to the unsaved.

A lot of peole thinking Paul preached a different message which is real sad.

GOD BLESS YOU.

 

[Genez]

You do know I really didn't mean I was going to follow you right?

Since what you think does not line up with GODS word your wrong and heading down the wide road.

Since JESUS was born sin free and died so we could have life I think I will be following HIM.

If I am a spiritual idiot?

Would you not be an idiot to think you can correct me?

 

[BillyBob]

Note:

1. Some have been enlightened.
They have TASTED of the heavenly gift (what is it?)
They have been made PARTAKERS of the Holy Spirit.

2. And THEN they have fallen away....

I do not agree with what you say.
It is possible to have both belief and faith and yet not be saved. Some believe that there is a God and shudder just as the demons do!
Faith which results in works that are pleasing to God only comes from being renewed by the Holy Spirit and given to Christ. Then works follow as a fruit of the work that He has done in us [giving us a new heart].
John 2:18-26
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
I see no scripture that says that Christ will lose any man given to Him by the Father. In fact, He tells us [none will be lost, all will be raised up on the last day].
Those in Christ will from time to time sin and stray from Christ, just as sheep are prone to do, but they will not remain that way. We have an excellent shepherd who will return us to the flock
Hebrews 6:4-6 is simply a warning to unregenerate professors – people part of the visible church but never truly born again. In other words, [examine yourself].

 

[Ouch]

If I am a spiritual idiot?

Would you not be an idiot to think you can correct me?

I just know you don't follow all of GOD'S word.

I would never call anyone an idiot, GOD loves us all the same and has plans for you.

All I can do is share HIS word proving you are wrong, and no way would I follow ANY man unless it lines up with GOD'S word.

When JESUS filled me with the Holy Ghost it change my life, it would be great for other to be filled.

 

[sawdust]

It is possible to have both belief and faith and yet not be saved.

Hang on a minute. I'm sure I have seen you say faith is a gift from God. Eph.2:8

If that is true, how can one have faith which, belongs to salvation and not be saved?

I agree the demons can believe and not result in salvation and that is why I always separate believing and faith because the former is a volitional act on our part but faith comes from God because it relies upon the word for it's power and faith is powerful, it can move mountains. It is the Word that determines salvation, not our will.

 

[phaxad]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

Jesus said no man shall pluck you out of my hand

 

[Genez]

I just know you don't follow all of GOD'S word.

I would never call anyone an idiot, GOD loves us all the same and has plans for you.

All I can do is share HIS word proving you are wrong, and no way would I follow ANY man unless it lines up with GOD'S word.

When JESUS filled me with the Holy Ghost it change my life, it would be great for other to be filled.

Thank you so much!

 

[Genez]

Jesus said no man shall pluck you out of my hand

Please. Don't confuse them with the facts...

They may have to start questioning that voice they hear in their thoughts if you do.

 

[James456]

AMEN, one big thing people don't understand is that Paul was speaking to churchs not to the unsaved.

A lot of peole thinking Paul preached a different message which is real sad.

GOD BLESS YOU.

He was indeed speaking to churches, but I never knew his message in the pentecostal church of my youth

 

[Genez]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

In Corinth Paul wrote about a young man who was sleeping with his mother.
How many are aware of that?

Not once did Paul say anything about the man losing his salvation.
If we could lose it?
Paul would have had chapters dedicated to the fact.

 

[BillyBob]

Hang on a minute. I'm sure I have seen you say faith is a gift from God.

That is true. Faith that leads to salvation is not present in fallen man, it is a gift that comes from the Holy Spirit.

 

[sawdust]

That is true. Faith that leads to salvation is not present in fallen man, it is a gift that comes from the Holy Spirit.

So when you were talking about belief and faith you were not talking about saving/biblical faith, you were referencing our believing something, a volitional act?