Loss of salvation???
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@Ouch
ok and they were going to hell because they were workers of iniquities. There is a difference between iniquities and sins. We can discuss that next if you like. The wages of sin are death. Death is earned thru sin. Life is given thru faith.
John 5:24
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
We hear, we believe, we have passed from death to life. Our sins are removed at this point. If we still had sins we would still earn death. But by hearing and believing we have been given life. And yes that means our sins are gone before baptism. Jesus taught many things. Don’t you think if baptism was the only way to rid us of our sins, He would’ve mentioned it more than one time in all 4 gospels? Instead He teaches faith the most, followed by discipleship, repentance, love, and obedience all multiple times.
ok and they were going to hell because they were workers of iniquities. There is a difference between iniquities and sins. We can discuss that next if you like. The wages of sin are death. Death is earned thru sin. Life is given thru faith.
John 5:24
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
We hear, we believe, we have passed from death to life. Our sins are removed at this point. If we still had sins we would still earn death. But by hearing and believing we have been given life. And yes that means our sins are gone before baptism. Jesus taught many things. Don’t you think if baptism was the only way to rid us of our sins, He would’ve mentioned it more than one time in all 4 gospels? Instead He teaches faith the most, followed by discipleship, repentance, love, and obedience all multiple times.
Paul disagrees with you. He said faith, hope and love remain. No talk of of faith or hope ceasing like all the gifts will eventually.
Faith is simply taking God on His Word.
In Heaven, if God tells you to visit someplace and to perform a task?
Because you have faith? You will simply do it and not question it. That is faith.
Now, because we are in a fallen world filled with enemies of God, we may have doubts.
It takes faith to overcome all that comes between faith and acting upon it.
That is why we see the "testing of our faith."
In eternity in Heaven, we will have faith. But with no more testing of our faith..
In the meanwhile we now face the following:
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be,
you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith,
being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire,
may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom
having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you
rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith
—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9
grace and peace.....
I have to confess, it boggles my mind how scripture can say "faith, hope and love remain" and then someone comes along and says but faith and hope will end.
See. I was right.
No crystal ball needed.
Want to know why those that believe in OSAS dislike the word MUST as in we MUST obey God?
Because they don't like objective declaration...
They might be feeling guilty about something...
They might be engaging in some sort of sinning (I say sinning purposefully).
So they console themselves by ignoring every single verse that absolutely proves that salvation can be lost,
by believing odd things: Like that we're "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately, that has a specific meaning which does NOT guarantee salvation. And one could explain it to exhaustion but it will never be accepted because it's just too uncomfortable were it to be true.
Others, probably you since you don't demonstrate hatred as some do,,,, use what we know as common sense to understand God instead of believing the New Testament. IOW,,,surely God will not forsake us once we walk down that isle.....
Well, God never forsakes anyone...it's the person that forsakes God by not obeying His commands. By walking away from Him.
And, my favorite excuse of all....
THEY WERE NEVER SAVED !!
How does one counter that!
Let's see:
JESUS said one could be born again and then become lost.
John's statement in 1 John 2:19 has NOTHING to do with believers.
It's history......but why learn what it means?
Maybe what was happening at the time is what John was referring to??
Only God knows if a person is saved.
I agree fully.
But we could certainly discuss theology and soteriology and make some kind of effort to keep Christianity cohesive and not let it fall to concepts from just a few hunred years ago.
Anyway, it's easy to discuss with you and I thank you for that.
BY FAITH NOAH DID....
BY FAITH ABRAHAM WENT...
BY FAITH WE BELIEVE JESUS RESURRECTED.
Are you 100% certain Jesus was resurrected?
How?
Are you 100% certain Jesus lived?
How?
By faith Genez.
In heaven you will no longer need faith.
This is theology 101 and you really should learn it.
I'm amazed that you and the other member don't understand this...
you're going to have to do a small study on faith since I certainly do not expect you to believe me.
i did my best to explain.
@Genez
Look,,,,even Gemini knows the Christian RELIGION more than you do !!
Based on 1 Corinthians 13, charity (love) is the only one of the three theological virtues that will remain in heaven, as it is the eternal essence of God and our relationship with Him. Faith and hope are realized or fulfilled upon seeing God face-to-face, rendering them no longer necessary in their current form.
Faith, Hope, and Charity in Heaven:
Look,,,,even Gemini knows the Christian RELIGION more than you do !!
Based on 1 Corinthians 13, charity (love) is the only one of the three theological virtues that will remain in heaven, as it is the eternal essence of God and our relationship with Him. Faith and hope are realized or fulfilled upon seeing God face-to-face, rendering them no longer necessary in their current form.
Faith, Hope, and Charity in Heaven:
- Charity (Love): Remains forever. It is the greatest virtue and represents the perfected, eternal communion with God and others.
- Faith: Will not be needed in the same way because faith is "believing without seeing". In heaven, faith gives way to direct vision of God.
- Hope: Will be realized. Hope is the anticipation of future goods, and since the ultimate good (God) is possessed, hope is fulfilled.
I too was a moderator for two years, and trained other mods, also.
Stepped down voluntarily.
It is my opinion that mods should not be doing a lot of posting to members.
I believe we agree on the why.
Well, as moderator, the fun times came to an abrupt end, of course.
And trolling is althogether different and trolls can be dealt with and are
breaking rules for most forums - if not all.
Yes. Good to meet nice persons on these boards...
whether or not we agree on any particular topic.
I KNOW what I believe Genez.
I DO NOT KNOW WHY you're posting it.
I do NOT KNOW what is in YOUR head.
WHAT do you want to say about what I said???
Let me assure you of something sawdust:
When I put a question in a post, it is NOT to get an answer.
It's becaue I KNOW the answer but would like YOU to think about what you've stated.
This is a common tool when teaching a class.
Guess you didn't know about it....
but now you do.
Why don't members here post scripture?
How about posting the scripture you're referring to?
I am not doing your work for you.
You don't think they had faith???
Did you notice what JESUS spoke of after HE throught them in to Hell?
FOUNDATION!!!! Yep foundation.
So what do you think of the foundation that JESUS laid out in John 3:5?
JESUS SAID, JESUS SAID, HELLO!!!!
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Why don't you belived him?
Isn't HE that we are suppose to have faith in, but yet you don't even believe what HE says?
JESUS did not say have faith are you are saved!!
If JESUS said we have to be born of water and of spirit why do you say just faith?
What did JESUS mean, by water and spirit?
I asked you have you been born of the spirit, has JESUS filled you with the Holy Ghost?
How were you baptized???
You never responded!!
What do you think baptism is for?
Do you think there is a Hell?
Why did Paul COMMAMNAD Cornilious and his whold family and freinds to get baptzied after they were filled with the Holy Ghost?
You do know I really didn't mean I was going to follow you right?
Since what you think does not line up with GODS word your wrong and heading down the wide road.
Since JESUS was born sin free and died so we could have life I think I will be following HIM.
And as I said I had already answered your question so I really have no idea what your problem is now.
Well, where was your scripture stating faith and hope are not eternal?
If you think you here to teach a class, your welcome to leave. This is a discussion board not your classroom. And maybe you should go and think about what I stated instead of thinking you really do know the answer.
Your out of your league here sister.
It is most difficult to post to you....
But to reply to the above...
I was replying to your post at no. 5973...
Here is what you stated:
I'm not asking you to address anything. You said you were not going to respond to me so I'm not sure what you are doing.
The Bible describes faith so I don't need your definition.
You are wrong about not needing hope and faith in the eternal state. Hope, in scripture, is not some form of wishful thinking but is confidence in God so that is never going to change. Faith, as I explained, is the word alive and working in our life so we will continue to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God eternally.
Faith, hope and love remain eternally
I was responding to the above.
I was saying that when we see God face to face...
WHY will faith be necessary?
WHY will hope be necessary?
Telling me I'm WRONG does not help in any conversation.
Do you know the difference between DISCUSSING scripture and
just wanting to be right or wrong?
Here is the complete scripture:
1 Corinthians 13:8-13
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of [c]prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with.
9 For we know in part and prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away with.
11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I [d]became a man, I did away with childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror [e]dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I also have been fully known.
13 But now faith, hope, and love remain, these three; but the [f]greatest of these is love.
The reason I referred to theology and not scripture is because 1 Cor 13:13 is not agreed upon by all theologians.
If you note in verse 8, Paul is saying that some gifts will be done away with.
Faith is a gift, as per Ephesians 2:8
Also, depending on how we want to define FAITH...as confidence in things not seen,
Hebrews 11.1
It becomes understandable that faith will not be needed after we see God face to face.
So, 1 Cor 13:13 would require some explanation....
The same for HOPE.
WHAT is it we hope for?
If I hope to get some food,,,and then I get the food....hope is no longer necessary.
If anyone else wants to join in, it would be appreciated since there can be different understandings of this topic.
Yeah.If you think you here to teach a class, your welcome to leave. This is a discussion board not your classroom. And maybe you should go and think about what I stated instead of thinking you really do know the answer.
Your out of your league here sister.
Can't have any type of conversation with you.
Just as I thought from the first day I got here.
You say this is a discussion board...
so why can't you discuss??
OK.
I'm out of my league.
Please do not respond to the post I just sent to you.
I'm leaving it up in case others care to respond.
Others that know how to have an intelligent conversation.