Pre Trib or Post trib rapture?

[faithlife]

The Bible is a Jewish book. Jesus said, Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The book of Daniel is a Jewish Book as well as the book of Revelation, both written to the Jews.

Unless you read the Bible as written to the Jews you will be hard pressed to understand it.

Can you not see that it is Michael the archangel who stands between Satan and Israel who would be restraining Satan and not the Holy Spirit.

Read carefully the following verses.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (A time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation. Isn't this your tribulation period?)

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

This isn't something I feel the need to debate about, as long as one of them escorts us up☝ and out I'll be very pleased.

 

[tttallison]

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Are you a Jehovah witness??????

The last time I looked I wasn't. Why

 

[Omegatime]

The last time I looked I wasn't. Why

Thanks---just wondering

 

[Melach]

If there is no pretrib, do posttrib believers think God's wrath will be poured out on His obedient children as well as unbelievers?

did God pour His wrath on the israelites in egypt? or were they protected by the blood of the lamb?

 

[Blade]

did God pour His wrath on the israelites in egypt? or were they protected by the blood of the lamb?

We're referring to completely different time periods. Is the coming wrath of God going to encompass the whole earth and all its inhabitants'? Yes also I am not picking sides but there is no verse for God protecting the Church during the great tribulation.

I don’t think some people fully grasp what must happen for Satan to openly perform deceptive wonders. These wonders aren’t just simple magic tricks like those we see on TV or videos; they are acts so convincing that the world will believe only a god could perform them. So why can’t Satan do these things right now? What is currently preventing or restraining him? What stands in his way? How was it before Christ came?

Today, God has given us the gift of salvation—Christ lives in us, and the Holy Spirit dwells within us forever, granting us all power and authority over the enemy. For me, there will never be a time when God grants Satan power over me. Although it is written that God allows Satan to have power to overcome the saints, I believe those “saints” are not referring to us.

God cannot give Satan power over Himself. God is in us and will never leave us. Once you begin to understand this, it can change your perspective on what is coming. It’s not God saying He won’t “caught up” or rapture anyone. I recently read and watched a respected man of God say that Jesus said there is no pre-tribulation rapture, then he shared verses that Jesus never actually said it lol. This is just one of those “what Jesus really meant” or “what that verse really means” interpretations. Ultimately, it’s a personal view—whether pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.

Sorry no offense but this is not going to turn out exactly as we think it should. God is not man...God does not think like man. It will be.. oooh I never saw that coming. Like the Seven Year tribulation. No no its 3.5 years no no its just 1 year. No no its were hear for 100 more years. Do you see yet? You've know Christ for how long and you still never just asked Him about this? What my sheep hear know my voice but yet He never talks to you? Just playing lol yet not. For me no this is one subject He will never talk about other then "I am coming soon be ready". Dreams yet no pre mid post just He really is coming.

 

[Omegatime]

We're referring to completely different time periods. Is the coming wrath of God going to encompass the whole earth and all its inhabitants'? Yes also I am not picking sides but there is no verse for God protecting the Church during the great tribulation.

I don’t think some people fully grasp what must happen for Satan to openly perform deceptive wonders. These wonders aren’t just simple magic tricks like those we see on TV or videos; they are acts so convincing that the world will believe only a god could perform them. So why can’t Satan do these things right now? What is currently preventing or restraining him? What stands in his way? How was it before Christ came?

Today, God has given us the gift of salvation—Christ lives in us, and the Holy Spirit dwells within us forever, granting us all power and authority over the enemy. For me, there will never be a time when God grants Satan power over me. Although it is written that God allows Satan to have power to overcome the saints, I believe those “saints” are not referring to us.

God cannot give Satan power over Himself. God is in us and will never leave us. Once you begin to understand this, it can change your perspective on what is coming. It’s not God saying He won’t “caught up” or rapture anyone. I recently read and watched a respected man of God say that Jesus said there is no pre-tribulation rapture, then he shared verses that Jesus never actually said it lol. This is just one of those “what Jesus really meant” or “what that verse really means” interpretations. Ultimately, it’s a personal view—whether pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.

Sorry no offense but this is not going to turn out exactly as we think it should. God is not man...God does not think like man. It will be.. oooh I never saw that coming. Like the Seven Year tribulation. No no its 3.5 years no no its just 1 year. No no its were hear for 100 more years. Do you see yet? You've know Christ for how long and you still never just asked Him about this? What my sheep hear know my voice but yet He never talks to you? Just playing lol yet not. For me no this is one subject He will never talk about other then "I am coming soon be ready". Dreams yet no pre mid post just He really is coming.

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Hebrews 9:28

28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

It's this simple

 

[GaryA]

Gary, how is the Linux experience? That's probably the way to go.

Absolutely the way to go - no doubt about it - been linux-all-the-way for many years now - windows not allowed in my house...

(I still have to deal with it at work; however, it only runs in a virtual environment on a linux machine when I decide to start it up.)

Seems like all other operating systems want to take your finger print, iris scan, blood sample, sell your data, and sell your first born, before they let you use their software.

Indeed. And, this is one of the many reasons there is a massive "shift" right now of people dumping windows and going the linux route - governments, corporations, and individuals - linux is growing by leaps and bounds right now while the number of people using windows diminishes...

(Microsoft has been doing things lately and forcing it upon windows users - and, many of them hate it.)

I was thinking about going all apple in a couple years, when my Windows 10 PC is no longer compatible, but know Linux is the better choice, just worried that their is a lack software support, or if this software is compatible when need be.

Linux has come a long way - more support than ever - not perfect, but growing fast...

You do know that airplane paths don't work on Flat Earth

Of course, they do.

Anyways, glad to see you're not buying this pretrib rapture non-sense.

I stopped "buying" the pretrib rapture (I was raised with it) decades ago when I discovered it was not biblical.

 

[GaryA]

Notice how post-tribbers deny the saving grace of Faith and the scriptures!

I do not know where you got this idea, but it is not true - at least not where I am concerned.

Why do you believe that post-tribbers believe a different salvation doctrine?

I think you are just making/taking "jabs" at post-tribbers without really thinking about what you are saying...

 

[GaryA]

That is WHY the postrib workbook needs the "one taken" to be "the wicked taken", which in no way fits anything.

I have never in my life believed this - and - I actually agree that it does not fit...

 

[GaryA]

From the post tribbers tone it's almost like they think we are doing some sort of bad or evil thing by believing in a pre trib rapture.

I would not contend that it is [necessarily] bad or evil - only incorrect - not what the Bible really actually says - and, promoted by some combination of pride, arrogance, and fear. Folks who believe it have simply been mislead into believing it and refuse to let go of it for the sake of the real biblical truth.

 

[GaryA]

Coming of the Son of Man

Matthew 24:37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.

What a happy bunch of people

Does this sound like a time of Peace and not the Tribulation?

Luke 17:28 Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.

For as long as you refuse to consider and understand the difference between 'tribulation' and 'wrath' - that they are not referring to the same thing, you will not fathom how this can be a real-and-valid thing - yet it is - because, the Bible says so. It is wisdom to make 'accept it as written in the Word of God' as your base foundation for truth - not based on emotion-affected reasoning.

 

[GaryA]

I looked up seven year tribulation period and I could not find it anywhere in the Bible.

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Not sure how savvy you are with prophecy but comes from the 70 weeks of Daniel 9.

27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

1 week ( of years ) === 7 years

One thing most dont debate

The idea comes from the 70 weeks of Daniel; however, it is not biblical - that is not what that verse is actually saying. Folks simply severely misinterpret it.

Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

 

[GaryA]

None of them have even tried to give it's meaning and so that's very telling!

Edward must have me on ignore...? (post #329 anyone?)

 

[Omegatime]

If you are a Post-Tribulation believer bringing new souls to the Lord and then telling them they must enter the meat grinder of the Tribulation, would go over well.

26 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of man. 27 They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[GaryA]

They don't know why they hate us...they just do.
That is why we are seen as evil and cowards.
Some if them declare we are not saved.

I do not know of any post-tribber that hates any pre-tribber. You are being over-dramatic.

Since they can not defend their position, they go extra biblical and attack our character rather than debating concept vs concept.
( messenger for them, trumps the message)

You need to stop seeing "telling you that you are misinterpreting scripture" as being "attacking our character"...

It is the thing you believe that is in error and being "attacked" (pointed out) - I do not think that anyone is "attacking" you...

 

[GaryA]

About half the members here either deny the 7 yr trib or go super definition.
(Trib is not great trib, great trib is not wrath, and wrath is neither.)

Then they take supposed definitions of those time slots and add tons of their own thoughts to it.

It is pre-trib folks that "go super definition" - inventing things that are not in the Bible to support the pre-trib view. And, in my opinion, the '7-year trib' is the first and most dangerous invention of the pretrib view.

Please see:

mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

 

[GaryA]

If there is no pretrib, do posttrib believers think God's wrath will be poured out on His obedient children as well as unbelievers?

The Bible promises us that no believer will suffer the Wrath of God.

Please understand that 'tribulation' and 'wrath' are not the same thing - please try to understand this.

 

[Edward429451]

I would not contend that it is [necessarily] bad or evil - only incorrect - not what the Bible really actually says - and, promoted by some combination of pride, arrogance, and fear. Folks who believe it have simply been mislead into believing it and refuse to let go of it for the sake of the real biblical truth.

Like Hebrews 9:28?

 

[GaryA]

The Bible is a Jewish book. Jesus said, Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The book of Daniel is a Jewish Book as well as the book of Revelation, both written to the Jews.

Unless you read the Bible as written to the Jews you will be hard pressed to understand it.

The Bible is not just "a Jewish book" - it is written to Jews - and Christians - and, believe it or not - unbelievers - Jew or Gentile.

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The key thing is to understand the context of any particular passage - including, who it is addressing directly, indirectly, etc.

Read carefully the following verses.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (A time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation. Isn't this your tribulation period?)

Please note - and keep in mind - that, in this particular passage of scripture, there is no 'after' component - only a 'before' component - to what is being said. It is not 'neither before nor after'; rather, it is 'never since' (before) only. This is important to remember when studying this passage together with other passages that have both 'before' and 'after' components in a similar statement.

 

[Edward429451]

I do not know of any post-tribber that hates any pre-tribber. You are being over-dramatic.

This is one of the tamest pre/post rapture threads I have ever been in. He's not being over dramatic. I've been in this same thread on different boards and the post tribbers were vicious in how they talked to pretribbers. I've been called all the names told I was evil, a false prophet and lots of other things that I dont want to remember!