You have no evidence that I believe what you accuse me of believing. You don’t have the integrity to back up your insults.
How do we distinguish false Christ & false Prophets according to Our Lord?
- Thread starter Godsgood
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I can support the first part of your comment. Modern science has three lines that support a deistic God that are widely accepted. The mathematician Godel has updated I think it was Anselm's argument, and that concludes that there must be a theistic God. Just a few days ago I received confirmation from a scientist with strong ties to some largely unknown experiments that my understanding of the results is basically correct, and he added in more knowledge for me. This should allow me to make a new argument for a theistic God, adding to the proofs from nature that Paul stated exist (Romans 1:20). I am currently also seeking feedback from academics on a definition of sin that fits with modern science, that fits with the definite article in the Greek in Romans 1:25 (not "a" lie, but "the" lie), a very specific lie that all humans believe and that can cause all things commonly referred to as "sins",, including the separation from God.
My issues with most understandings of scripture come in the places where scripture seems to claim something that contradicts all other available evidence, and in those places, if politics was an issue, the contradictions make perfect sense, deny or amend the truth to protect the believers. Tradition does not want to allow politics to influence the church, despite all the evidence that it does.
I'm not accusing anyone on what they believe.
I'm sharing the truth no matter how hurt it is.
HEBREWS 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
There is the evidence and the evidence is the truth.
2 CORINTHIANS 13:8
8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
Your statements about me are accusations, not truth.
When you accuse a person, you bear responsibility for providing evidence that person has done what you accused them of doing, or in this case, believing.
No amount of biblical citation proves anything that I allegedly believe. The only evidence that counts is my own words. Not your perceptions, not your misrepresentations, not your delusions.
So, again, what is your evidence that I believe the things you accuse me of believing?
Quote me, or withdraw your accusations and cease with your ridiculous and baseless dismissals.
In regard to Hebrews 3:12, how about a little context. Hebrews 3:8-10 says, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years. Therefore, I was angry with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it. Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So, we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Considered the truth for a time, then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.
*Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people (the Israelites) out of Egypt but later destroyed those who did not believe. NOT later destroyed those who stopped believing but DID NOT BELIEVE.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [have become already] partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, in which we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been and now are a partaker of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end." Holding fast is proof of genuine conversion. This explains the unbelieving heart that turns away from God. (Hebrews 3:12) Faith was never firmly rooted and established so unbelief remained their final condition. Same in Hebrews 4:1-3.
Now in regard to Hebrews 6:4-6, verse 6 does say "fall away" but it doesn't say they fall away from salvation. Now those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God yet have simply tasted and stopped there.
People who have experienced these things may be genuine Christians, yet this alone is not enough to give conclusive evidence that (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification etc..) have taken place for those who fall away. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet those who draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth do not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39)
These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responding to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead sinners to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
In regard to "tasted" the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely taste, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
The Scribes & Pharisees were praising & serving God the Father.
JOHN 8:41
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
That is what they believe.
Since they keep on claiming that they know who God the Father is (but the truth they don't know).
To Lord Jesus they are liars.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Therefore: Whoever, even he or she preaches God's words like Scribes & Pharisees. As long as they don't know who God the Father is, there is no truth in them.
Lord Jesus wasnot accusing the Scribes & Pharisees when he said to them they are liars. Jesus was telling the truth.
In your belief. Who God the Father is? Can you identify him?
Whoever not know him, it is God the Father who said this:
JEREMIAH 4:22
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
No.
You made the accusations already. You provide evidence for your accusations from statements I have already made.
I’m not going to answer any questions until you step up and provide evidence justifying your slander.
I’m a little confused with your comment, do you believe in OSAS?
The wine mixed with gull may have been like ACV (soured wine/ wine vinegar) which is medicinal and dulls pain. Jesus didn’t want to dull His pain…..
If you don't want to answer then you don't know the answer. And you failed the test again. That is the truth of evidence.
By testing the spirit it is a commandment given by Lord Jesus to his chosen (this test is not my personal opinion)
1 JOHN 4:1
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Despite of that truth you still saying you know who God the Father is and you are following his commandments. I will not judge you on that. But let me share what God the Father said pertaining to that kind of person.
Because whosoever not knowing who God the Father is, he or she never follow God's commandment.
1 JOHN 2:4
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Let me say it once again. I'm not accusing you or anyone here. I'm sharing the truth.
Truth is truth and not slander.
Again you fail to show integrity.
You made personal accusations with no evidence. You are a slanderer.
A slanderer with no integrity has no business discussing the Bible.
Do you believe that those who died off during the 40 yrs of wandering in the wilderness were saved? God was very angry with that generation. He called that generation evil (evil doesn’t rest in heaven).
-“‘Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers,”
Deuteronomy 1:35 NKJV
-“Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.”
Hebrews 2:1 NKJV
-“Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.’ So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ””
Hebrews 3:10-11 NKJV
Do you believe that those who died off during the 40 yrs of wandering in the wilderness were saved? God was very angry with that generation. He called that generation evil (evil doesn’t rest in heaven).
-“‘Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers,”
Deuteronomy 1:35 NKJV
-“Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.”
Hebrews 2:1 NKJV
-“Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.’ So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ””
Hebrews 3:10-11 NKJV
This is our warning:
“Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.””
Hebrews 3:12-15 NKJV
When it comes to integrity in the words of God.
In the new testament Scribes & Pharisees had the integrity because they finished their studies in the bible school. And so many Jews were following them because of that integrity.
But to Lord Jesus, that integrity is from a Man standard only in the words of God.
Because the integrity that you referring to will end to CEMETERY ONLY.
What is important to Lord Jesus is the truth. Because truth will lead you to eternal life.
Therefore sharing the truth matters.
ROMANS 2:11
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
ACTS 10:34
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
By the Lord Jesus revelation.
To distinguish false Christ and false Prophets are those people believing in the Holy Bible but taking the words of God in letter (literal meaning) and not in spirit.
2 CORINTHIANS 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Example on this are the commandments of God.
Thou shall not Steal
Thou shall not Commit Adultery.
People who take the words of the new testament literally are not "false teachers and false prophets"!
If your view were valid, then we would have to reject the literal meaning of the passage you quoted... which leaves you with no reason to reject the literal meaning. That's self-refuting. It is akin to saying, "Everything is relative"... which includes that very statement, making it absolute and refuting the statement.
In the New Testament. The false Christ & false Prophets are the Scribes & Pharisees. Because they were teaching wrong doctrine to the Jews Matthew 16:6 & 12
Their teaching in the words of God is in literal physical.
Thou shall not Steal: They punished the 2 thieves by hanging on the cross for a literal stealing.
Thou shall not commit adultery: They brought Mary Magdalene to Jesus to punish her for literal adultery.
But according to Lord Jesus, the equivalent of what they follow in the words of God is just a cleaning the cup on the outside part. But the inside is unclean. They were describe by Lord Jesus like a Whited Sepulchres full of deadman bones inside.
Because they are following the law in literal meaning, in the eyes of Jesus that is hypocisy & iniquity.
MATTHEW 23:25-28
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Taking the words of God like the Ten Commandments of God literally is ok. It will bring peace to the people.
But could not use as basis to salvation.
According to Lord Jesus: By taking the words of God in literal what we follow is the goverment law only and ignoring God's law.
MATHHEW 22:21
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
The Chosen of God what they follow to the commandments Thou shall not Steal and Thou shall not Commit Adultery is in Spiritual then Literal. Means Cleaning the inside part of the cup first and the outside part will follow (Matthew 23:25).
Neither of those passages identifies either "wrong doctrine" or "taking God's word literally" as the problem. The problem with the scribes and Pharisees is that they were defending human reinterpretations of God's word (the teaching of various rabbis) instead of taking God's word at face value (literally) and applying it to themselves. Their teaching was false because they taught a corruption of the truth, not because they took it literally.
Perhaps you need to read more carefully. Who punished the two thieves? The scribes and Pharisees? No; the Romans! The scribes and Pharisees have nothing whatsoever to do with their punishment. They aren't mentioned at all.
Again, you need to read more carefully. Firstly, the text says, "teachers of the law and the Pharisees", not "scribes and Pharisees"; details matter. Secondly, the text clearly states their intention: "They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him."; nothing is said about Jesus punishing the woman. Thirdly, the woman is not named, so claiming it is Mary Magdalene is eisegetical. Fourthly, the problem here is not literal interpretation of the Law regarding adultery, but inconsistent application of it. Jesus responded not by telling them they were wrong about taking God's word literally, but by challenging their integrity to it... which requires taking it literally!
Jesus' rebuke to them regarding tithing of garden herbs proves you wrong.
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
So what's the real issue here? Is it taking God's word literally? Or is it overlooking the broader but very real implications?
True. I'm glad you understand that.
What is the basis for salvation according to the Bible? Don't waste your time telling me what it isn't; tell me what it is (in your view).
Nothing about Jesus' statement suggests that taking God's word literally results in "following government law only and ignoring God's law". You only say that because you have a weird and baseless preclusion that holds literal understanding as incorrect.
No, nothing in Scripture suggests that following God's word is "spiritual first, then literal". In fact, God's word clearly says the opposite:
1 Corinthians 15:46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
Proper obedience to God's word encompasses both literal (physical, natural, external) AND spiritual (internal, invisible). Jesus' statement indicates that proper application of God's word results in proper behaviour. Let the truth of God's literal word sink into your mind and heart, cleansing them from sinful inclination, and your words and actions will become clean.
Nothing in your post proves that taking the words of God literally is wrong. What you do is misinterpret everything as parable (non-literal) because a couple of limited-scope passages say God was speaking in parables. You don't understand the parameters of those statements, and you ignore passages like the following:
Matthew 13:36-37 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man... (and continued explaining in plain literal words).
Mark 4:34 He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Matthew 15:15-20 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”
“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”
Consider Jesus' instruction to His disciples in Matthew 21:2 " “Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me." How is that a parable? How were the disciples supposed to obey it, if taking it literally was incorrect? Did Jesus rebuke them for doing exactly what He told them to do? No.
You need to drop this silly and dangerous misunderstanding of Scripture as a whole. Get some sound teaching on how to interpret Scripture. Stop posting your errors while claiming they are "truth for everyone to read".
Here is a crystal clear example of a false “prophet”. As close to seeing Satan himself speaking to the list in a “church”.
“Blessed are those that end a pregnancy”
Yup. Just one of the changes made to the beatitudes:
https://x.com/geniustechw/status/2019033202422063320?s=46
“Blessed are those that end a pregnancy”
Yup. Just one of the changes made to the beatitudes:
https://x.com/geniustechw/status/2019033202422063320?s=46
Dino246, post: 5681723, member: 223333"]Neither of those passages identifies either "wrong doctrine" or "taking God's word literally" as the problem. The problem with the scribes and Pharisees is that they were defending human reinterpretations of God's word (the teaching of various rabbis) instead of taking God's word at face value (literally) and applying it to themselves. Their teaching was false because they taught a corruption of the truth, not because they took it literally.
The root of a wrong doctrine by Scribes & Pharisees were understanding the words of God in literal meaning. this is the reason why they asked Jesus to stop his disciples on the sabbath day.
MATTHEW 12:1-2
12 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Perhaps you need to read more carefully. Who punished the two thieves? The scribes and Pharisees? No; the Romans! The scribes and Pharisees have nothing whatsoever to do with their punishment. They aren't mentioned at all.
This kind of understanding is a proof that you are taking the words of God in letter only.
Who punished Jesus?
Pontius Pilate a Roman governor.
Who pushed Pontius Pilate to convict Jesus?
The Scribes & Pharisees.
Therefore in the eyes of the Jews and in your eyes it is the Romans who convict Jesus.
No wonder why who pushed the Romans to convict the 2 thieves were still the Scribes & Pharisees
Again, you need to read more carefully. Firstly, the text says, "teachers of the law and the Pharisees", not "scribes and Pharisees"; details matter.
Again you are taking the words of God in letter.
Whoever they are is not important.
What we are specifying here were those influential people (they are all not in truth) who are against the Lord Jesus (who is the truth John 14:6).
Secondly, the text clearly states their intention: "They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him."; nothing is said about Jesus punishing the woman.
They don't make a trap. In fact they were honest on what they follow.
ROMANS 10:2-3
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Thirdly, the woman is not named, so claiming it is Mary Magdalene is eisegetical.
This is the third time's showing that you are prooving taking the words of God in letter.
I think you need to read more carefully.
Why don't you read the complete story of Mary Magdalene? How Jesus knew her?
Fourthly, the problem here is not literal interpretation of the Law regarding adultery, but inconsistent application of it. Jesus responded not by telling them they were wrong about taking God's word literally, but by challenging their integrity to it... which requires taking it literally!
Jesus did not allow the Jews to punish Mary Magdalene. Because the literal adultery committed by Mary Magdalene must be punishable by the Romans who governed them.
In fact in the eyes of Jesus the Jews particularly Scribes & Pharisees, doctors and teachers of the law (now I include them).
Although they were not committing literal adultery but they were committing Spiritual adultery.
MATTHEW 12:39
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Yes, Jesus described them as Evil generation too because they were preaching the words of God in literal meaning and not in spiritual meaning. As what they showed to Jesus by punishing Mary Magdalene in committing literal adultery.
Whoever preaching the words of God in literal meaning only has no integrity in the eyes of God.