The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[CrystalAnkles]

I have no problem with what is written in nine of them being in my heart and mind, absolutely. But I don't think of them as law as such, I never think of the words TC concerning them
I just instinctively know in my mind God does not want me to steal, commit adultery, murder, take His name in vain, covet, lie etc. And in my heart(the flesh is another matter) I do not want to do those things
In the circumstances, why would I need to think of the words ''Ten Commandments''?

One day when you are more mature in Christ you may look back and realize how ridiculous your semantics fixation and argument appear to those who know better.

 

[Undergrace1]

One day when you are more mature in Christ you may look back and realize how ridiculous your semantics fixation and argument appear to those who know better.

I don't think those who look to an external law are mature in Christ. An external law is old covenant, not new. If you have not had the experience you should have had where the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands is concerned, your post to me is understandable.
Those who THINK they know better, often do not

 

[Undergrace1]

One day when you are more mature in Christ you may look back and realize how ridiculous your semantics fixation and argument appear to those who know better.

I mean God says:
I WILL write my laws in their minds
I WILL place them on their hearts
Do you not think God is capable of doing what He states He will do?
You must know in your mind what is in your mind
Law in your heart means in your heart you desire to live as God wants you to live

It is sad you think you know better than what God promised to do under the new covenant

 

[NightTwister]

I never said the few speak for the whole.

Don't inject conflict here by implying others said what is only in your omagination.. It's rude.

Grace and Peace.

 

[Dino246]

You decided to challenge what I observed from my reading of the thread.
Show some respect for respondents and know what we're talking about . Read the thread.

Yes, I challenged what you observed. If you have a problem with people challenging what you write, you are in the wrong forum. When you make a claim about what people say, either quote them, represent them with rigorous unbiased accuracy, or face challenge for your misrepresentation.

Your summaries do not accurately represent either side. I don't need to re-read the thread to know that. I gave you the benefit of the doubt; I won't next time.

 

[Mem]

Hi Mem, i wrote this last night to explain further;

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah… But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts… And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31–34, KJV)​

Here, Jeremiah is not speaking about a single moment only. He is speaking about a work of God that has a beginning, a growth, and a completion. The phrase “the days come” shows a future work. The phrase “after those days” shows that it unfolds in stages. This is important. The covenant is promised, but its full condition is very specific: God’s law is written so deeply in the heart that teaching is no longer needed, because “they shall all know Me.” That has never yet happened to the whole people of God.
Jesus Himself began this covenant through His death and resurrection. He said plainly, “This cup is the new testament in my blood” (Luke 22:20). So yes, the New Covenant was truly established by Jesus. But establishment is not the same as full completion. Jesus did not say the Kingdom would appear fully grown in one moment. He said the opposite.

“The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree.” (Matthew 13:31–32, KJV)
This parable explains exactly how Jeremiah’s promise unfolds. The Kingdom begins small. It grows. It spreads. It takes time. Jesus did not say the seed instantly becomes a tree. He said it becomes a tree. That means the New Covenant begins with Christ, but it moves toward a future fullness.

When Jesus rose and sent the Holy Spirit, the Spirit did not fall on everyone. It fell on a few, first the apostles, then those who believed. This matches the mustard seed. The Kingdom had begun, but it was still growing. The disciples went out teaching because Jeremiah’s words “they shall teach no more” were not yet fulfilled. Teaching still existed because the covenant had not reached its final measure.

Jesus Himself confirmed that growth and delay are part of the plan. He said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), and He also taught that the end would come only when the message had gone out widely.
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” (Matthew 24:14, KJV)

Jeremiah’s vision points to a time beyond the present age, when the work that began with Christ reaches its fullness at His return. At that time, God’s law will not merely be known outwardly or taught by others. It will be fully written within. Knowing God will no longer be partial, mixed with weakness, confusion, or struggle against sin.
This agrees with what Jesus said about the future state of His people.
“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8, KJV)

Purity of heart is not yet complete in believers now. We are being shaped, corrected, taught, and pruned. But Jeremiah speaks of a day when the heart is fully formed by God Himself. When Christ returns, those who belong to Him will no longer struggle between flesh and spirit. They will know God truly, naturally, and fully, and sin will have no place in them.

So your point stands. The New Covenant has begun, but it has not yet reached its final condition. The mustard seed has been planted. The tree is growing. The disciples were the first branches. The Spirit was the first rain. But the full harvest comes when Jesus returns, when Jeremiah’s words are no longer partially true, but completely true.
At that time, “they shall all know Me” will no longer be hope or promise. It will be reality.
And that is not speculation. That is simply letting Jeremiah explain Jesus, and Jesus explain Jeremiah, in the plain and simple way Scripture itself teaches.

So, you don't know Him yet?

 

[markss]

The Bible does present the Ten Commandments as the covenant itself. In Exodus 34:28, it is written:

"So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone (Deuteronomy 4:13, NKJV)

I think the actual covenant is simpler:

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

"If you obey Me, you will be My special people." And they answered, All that you say we will do.

Thus "The Law and the Prophets", all that God told them to do.

I don't believe we can separate out one part of all that God said, as if the rest were not equally important for them to keep.

Much love!

Much love!

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I think the actual covenant is simpler:

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

"If you obey Me, you will be My special people." And they answered, All that you say we will do.

Thus "The Law and the Prophets", all that God told them to do.

I don't believe we can separate out one part of all that God said, as if the rest were not equally important for them to keep.

Much love!

Much love!

This was what the Lord spoke to them personally. Everything else from the law of Moses God spoke though Moses.

God alone spoke and wrote His commandments Exo20:6

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”


God directly spoke the Ten Commandment's and after He was done speaking, He wrote them on tablets of stone and added NO MORE Exo31:18 Deut 5:22 God Himself separated the law of God that God Himself wrote, that was placed inside the ark of God's covenant from the law of Moses that Moses wrote in a book Deut31:24-26 placed outside as a witness against that contained the blessings and curses for breaking the Ten Commandments and animal sacrifices which was the temporary fix for sinning and breaking the Law of God until the Seed. Heb10:1-15

 

[Mem]

When Phillip requested of Jesus, "Show us the Father and that will be enough for us," Jesus replied, " Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Phillip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father, so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (Jn 14:8-9)

This is the Father. The Father that so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son (who presently stands before you, yes you), that whosoever (yes, even you) believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (Jn 3:16).

 

[Inquisitor]

Hello Inquisitor,

Your questions assume something Scripture never says.
First, Gentiles did know God.
Not through Sinai, but through creation and conscience. God judged nations long before Israel existed. Cain was judged. The world in Noah’s day was judged. Sodom was judged. None of them were Israelites, yet God held them accountable. Why? Because sin already existed, which means God’s moral law already existed.
Jesus confirms this when He says the judgment will include all nations, not just Israel
“When the Son of man shall come… before him shall be gathered all nations” (Matthew 25:31–32, KJV)
Second, the covenant at Sinai belonged to Israel, yes.
But God’s law did not begin at Sinai. Sinai revealed the law clearly, it did not invent it. Murder was sin before Sinai. Adultery was sin before Sinai. Idolatry was sin before Sinai. Jesus Himself says these commandments come from the beginning, not from Moses
“From the beginning it was not so” (Matthew 19:8, KJV)
Third, Gentiles are not bound to Israel’s national covenant.
They are bound to God’s authority as Creator and Judge. Jesus does not say, “If you are Jewish, keep the commandments.” He says
“If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17, KJV)
No ethnic limit. No covenant loophole.
Fourth, the Sabbath was not invented for Israel.
Jesus says
“The sabbath was made for man” (Mark 2:27, KJV)
Not for Jews only. For man. Humanity. Creation. The Sabbath comes from Genesis, before Israel, before Sinai.
Finally, Gentiles were never excluded from obedience to God.
They were excluded from Israel’s priesthood and national laws, not from righteousness, repentance, or holiness. That is why Jesus can say
“Many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham” (Matthew 8:11, KJV)
So the problem is not Gentiles and the law.
The problem is confusing Israel’s covenant administration with God’s eternal standard of right and wrong.
Jesus did not lower God’s standard to include Gentiles.
He opened the door so Gentiles could walk in and live by it.

Do the Gentiles know God let alone know of the ten commandments?

Psalm 14:1-3
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds.
There is no one who does good.
The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God.
They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

Romans 3:10-12
As it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good, There is not even one.”

Acts 17:23
For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Ephesians 2:19
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household.

Ephesians 4:17-19
So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God.

John 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

The Gentiles had no concept of YHWH.

The Gentiles did not even understand that God exists let alone judgement.

There is no historical record that Gentiles ever had the ten commandments.

Sin still exists without the law.

 

[vassal]

I think the actual covenant is simpler:

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

"If you obey Me, you will be My special people." And they answered, All that you say we will do.

Thus "The Law and the Prophets", all that God told them to do.

I don't believe we can separate out one part of all that God said, as if the rest were not equally important for them to keep.

Much love!

Much love!

can we do sacrifices for our sins are all these laws still valid? refer to the jesusalem council and what they kept from the law of Moses for the gentiles....

Blessings

 

[CrystalAnkles]

Yes, I challenged what you observed. If you have a problem with people challenging what you write, you are in the wrong forum. When you make a claim about what people say, either quote them, represent them with rigorous unbiased accuracy, or face challenge for your misrepresentation.

Your summaries do not accurately represent either side. I don't need to re-read the thread to know that. I gave you the benefit of the doubt; I won't next time.

I don't mind challenges that are sincere of heart.
What is objectionable are those who think to pick a fight because that's their sorry forte.

 

[vassal]

@Inquisitor

The Gentiles had no concept of YHWH. yes this is Why Jesus sent the 12 and Paul!

The Gentiles did not even understand that God exists let alone judgment.
yes this is Why Jesus sent the 12 and Paul!

There is no historical record that Gentiles ever had the ten commandments. before the heard of them from the disciples they did not it is why Jesus sent the 12 and Paul!

Sin still exists without the law.[/QUOTE] yes but the law ( ten commandments) if followed keeps you from sin! it is Why Jesus kept repeating "go and sin no more" and Repent the Kingdom of heaven is at hand, sinners cannot enter it. sin is breaking the commandments.

 

[Dino246]

I don't mind challenges that are sincere of heart.
What is objectionable are those who think to pick a fight because that's their sorry forte.

Pick a fight? If that’s your game, you are definitely in the wrong forum.

You made statements supposedly summarizing what is written in this thread that don’t align with what has been written in this thread.

I invited you to support your summary statements with evidence. You responded with disrespect. I held up a mirror.

Step up with evidence, or admit your error. Either path gets you grace.

 

[vassal]

So, you don't know Him yet?

 

[Mem]

​

It's okay. Philip had trouble recognizing Him at first also.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

When Phillip requested of Jesus, "Show us the Father and that will be enough for us," Jesus replied, " Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Phillip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father, so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (Jn 14:8-9)

This is the Father. The Father that so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son (who presently stands before you, yes you), that whosoever (yes, even you) believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (Jn 3:16).

When Jesus said this, do you think He meant just believe in Him or actually believe in Him enough to do what He asks. If we look at our first parents- they were given instructions to not eat from one tree in all of the garden. Do you think they didn’t believe in God? Did that save them from death when they disobeyed? Unbelief in the Bible is interchangeable with disobedience, sin and rebellion Heb3:7-19

This weird concept that God loves us more than everyone who came before us in the Bible who disobeyed God that God destroyed is very strange. I would recommend reading past John 3:16…..God loves all of us, but He gives us His righteous instructions on how He wants His children to live because He knows what’s best for us. He does not lower His standard to us, He lifts us up to Him, if we allow Him to through the instructions of His word and the cooperation of His Spirit though our love to Him John14:15-18 and willingness to submit to Him. Mat7:21-23 Psa 40:8

 

[Mem]

When Jesus said this, do you think He meant just believe in Him or actually believe in Him enough to do what He asks. If we look at our first parents- they were given instructions to not eat from one tree in all of the garden. Do you think they didn’t believe in God? Did that save them from death when they disobeyed? Unbelief in the Bible is interchangeable with disobedience, sin and rebellion Heb3:7-19

This weird concept that God loves us more than everyone who came before us in the Bible who disobeyed God that God destroyed is very strange. I would recommend reading past John 3:16…..God loves all of us, but He gives us His righteous instructions on how He wants His children to live because He knows what’s best for us. He does not lower His standard to us, He lifts us up to Him, if we allow Him to through the instructions of His word and the cooperation of His Spirit though our love to Him John14:15-18 and willingness to submit to Him. Mat7:21-23 Psa 40:8

You are free to be save from death by the law as much as you can.

 

[posthuman]

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15

You know it instinctively, and in your heart(the flesh is another matter) you desire to follow it

quite apropos, thank you!

and i note that it is the righteousness required by the law that here is spoken of being written on hearts, not 'the law' itself.

interesting!

 

[Undergrace1]

@Inquisitor

The Gentiles had no concept of YHWH. yes this is Why Jesus sent the 12 and Paul!

The Gentiles did not even understand that God exists let alone judgment.
yes this is Why Jesus sent the 12 and Paul!

There is no historical record that Gentiles ever had the ten commandments. before the heard of them from the disciples they did not it is why Jesus sent the 12 and Paul!

Sin still exists without the law.

yes but the law ( ten commandments) if followed keeps you from sin! it is Why Jesus kept repeating "go and sin no more" and Repent the Kingdom of heaven is at hand, sinners cannot enter it. sin is breaking the commandments.[/QUOTE]
'''Go and sin no more''
Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?” John7:19

Was Jesus literally telling the woman to do what he knew no one else did?
And if he was, what need would she have of a saviour from sin if she obeyed?
''Go and commit adultery no more''