What would you say to this fellow human being?

[the_seeker]

If you want to reject the gospel, that's up to you I guess; I've done my part. I only hope that some day you'll reconsider; however, none of us is guaranteed tomorrow.

True.

 

[the_seeker]

I would say homo anal and oral sex obviously are a perversion of heterosex per the design of sexual organs,
and thus homo marriage is impossible.

So you would say this face-to-face with a homosexual ? Please note: Not through a keyboard, we are speaking face to face.

 

[Suze]

I have five grown up step daughters , all lovely young ladies , non of them Christian . Three of them have had long term relationships with women , one of those three is married to a woman . What do I say to them ? Absolutely nothing , they r not Christians and show no interest in knowing the Truth . Their lives and sins , whatever they may b , r their business just as my life and sins r my business . I am responsible because I know better . They don't so it's not up to me to criticize them in any way .

 

[the_seeker]

I would say if the cause of homosexuality is genetic, then the physical mutation should be found and corrected if possible,
if the cause is environmental, then the psychological aberration should be treated and corrected as quickly as possible,
and if the cause is due to free choice, then it should be repented of immediately.
If the cause is unknown, then scientists should conduct studies until the cause is found/causes are found.

Then I would say, "Moses, Jesus and Paul all condemned both homosexuality and heterosexual fornication
as immoral/sinful. Thus, the both homo and hetero compulsive sinners should pray for the gift of celibacy,
undergo castration and/or support the invention of a pill that diminishes or ends sexual urges."

Do you know, that what you say here, is pretty close to the arguments the Nazis used against homosexuality?

 

[the_seeker]

I would answer that : ' if u were a Christian u would already realise that your way of life is not what God intended for us humans . So , u r probably not a Christian and therefore u can do as u please ' .

The problem with your argument is as follows:
I know people who are both christians and homosexuals. So how can your "logic" cope with that ?

 

[the_seeker]

I know a lady , a lovely human being , funny , clever , humble , kind , generous and loving . She's a nominal Christian which to me means , if u ask her she will say she is a Christian but she's a bit hit and miss if u know what I mean . She has a problem with sex she is a genuine diagnosed nymphomaniac

Sorry Suze, but my life experience does not cover such sexual things like you describe. So I have noe opinion about it.

That said; can you define the concept of "nominal Christians" ?

 

[GWH]

So you would say this face-to-face with a homosexual ? Please note: Not through a keyboard, we are speaking face to face.

Why not? Would Jesus not do that?

 

[GWH]

I have five grown up step daughters , all lovely young ladies , non of them Christian . Three of them have had long term relationships with women , one of those three is married to a woman . What do I say to them ? Absolutely nothing , they r not Christians and show no interest in knowing the Truth . Their lives and sins , whatever they may b , r their business just as my life and sins r my business . I am responsible because I know better . They don't so it's not up to me to criticize them in any way .

Do you think they are that way because you did not teach them the right way?

 

[GWH]

Do you know, that what you say here, is pretty close to the arguments the Nazis used against homosexuality?

I doubt that the Nazis gave a hoot about what GW says,
but note that I included heterosexual fornication.

 

[the_seeker]

What do I say to them ? Absolutely nothing , they r not Christians and show no interest in knowing the Truth . Their lives and sins , whatever they may b , r their business just as my life and sins r my business . I am responsible because I know better . They don't so it's not up to me to criticize them in any way .

That's exactly the problem for fundamentalistic christians: You think that you've got the whole truth of everything, I mean the BIG TRUTH. The really BIG OVERALL TRUTH. This feeling inside you may make you loosing respect of the believes of others, you doing hardcore argumentation against their way of living. Then barriers are made, polarized, you know the "We against Them philosophy". In an extreme variant, it may lead into violence. Just consult any history book and you will find that I am right (Tip: Fascism).

Now on the other hand, if you have a deep conviction of what is the truth, and that you are on the bright side, and that the ones opposing your view are at the dark side, then why should you not fight for your case? I mean, I fight for my case, which is a liberal, democratic, secular viewpoint. And whoever disagrees with this view in a fundamental way I will fight, not with guns of course, but with arguments through discussion.

So as we say in Norway: "Slik går nu dagan....."
Meaning something like: "In such a way, the days are passing....."

 

[the_seeker]

Why not? Would Jesus not do that?

I am not asking Jesus, I am asking you on this site.

 

[GWH]

I am not asking Jesus, I am asking you on this site.

I ask WWJD and answer you as He would on this site.

 

[the_seeker]

I ask WWJD and answer you as He would on this site.

I know what you mean: WWJD is like "What would Jesus do". Fair question.
So you have no opinions for yourself, you just ask a "higher authority" for answers, unable to answer for yourself ?

 

[Suze]

The problem with your argument is as follows:
I know people who are both christians and homosexuals. So how can your "logic" cope with that ?

My logic doesn't have to cope with it . As Christians we all know that we will have to stand before Christ and give account of ourselves . I have enough on my plate trying to keep my own feet on the straight and narrow . I honestly don't worry about what other people get up to , if some one asks me , like u asked us on here , I give my opinion but , I don't fret myself about other people's behaviour . We all have our own consciences to live with .
I know a devoted brother , never met anyone who loves God and Jesus more than he does . He plays the lottery every week . My own conscience doesn't allow me to do that . His is fine with it . What do I say to him ? Absolutely nothing . He is an intelligent man who knows his God and his conscience is fine with playing the lottery so that's his business .
I also know that plenty of so called straight people , do all the things that homosexuals do , they just don't advertise it . None of it is my business unless u ask me what I think then , I speak from my heart .

 

[Suze]

It's not my job

That's exactly the problem for fundamentalistic christians: You think that you've got the whole truth of everything, I mean the BIG TRUTH. The really BIG OVERALL TRUTH. This feeling inside you may make you loosing respect of the believes of others, you doing hardcore argumentation against their way of living. Then barriers are made, polarized, you know the "We against Them philosophy". In an extreme variant, it may lead into violence. Just consult any history book and you will find that I am right (Tip: Fascism).

Now on the other hand, if you have a deep conviction of what is the truth, and that you are on the bright side, and that the ones opposing your view are at the dark side, then why should you not fight for your case? I mean, I fight for my case, which is a liberal, democratic, secular viewpoint. And whoever disagrees with this view in a fundamental way I will fight, not with guns of course, but with arguments through discussion.

So as we say in Norway: "Slik går nu dagan....."
Meaning something like: "In such a way, the days are passing....."

I am not God , it's not my job to right other people's wrongs , I have my own weeknesses and sins to cope with , this is my point ;
I will have to give account of myself , i can't control what other people do , I can't always control my own self . Something that some one does one day , the next day they may decide to change and not do that any more , I don't push anyone away . I have gay friends and family , buddists , atheists , psychopaths , alcoholics , drug addicts , seriously mentally ill people in my close circle . Please don't accuse me of pushing people away , u don't know me to b able to say that about me .

 

[Adstar]

According to conservative christians, a homosexual living in a homosexual relationship, even as a married person, is doing a big sin against God.

Now, it's pretty easy to have strong opinions about this and that through a keyboard and a screen, but what about in real life? If you are sitting face-to-face with a homosexual living like I described, and you are a conservative christian, like you are sitting face-to-face with this person around a table, would you still say things like:

You are living a life in sin because you are living in a same-sex relationship !
The Creator of the Universe doesn't like your way of living !
The best is if you, with these feelings inside, stay single for the rest of your life, or go in therapy !

Now - would you say these things in a face-to-face conversation ?

I hope i would say those things.. Maybe in a different way but essentialy the same things..

I would hasten to say that The Lord Loves them and His Atonement covers their sin if they believe the LORD and trust in the Atonement He secured for them on the cross..

 

[Suze]

Do you think they are that way because you did not teach them the right way?

I did not teach them anything , I had no hand in their upbringing , I do know that their mum ( my hubby's first wife ) was very promiscuous and bi sexual . The girls were brought up without any religion and in a world that says ' anything goes and we shouldn't judge people who r different to us , try it , u might like it ' etc . That's not how my generation was brought up , we have to allow for the fact that culture changes very rapidly , just look back to 1967 , the year I was born . Up until then , homosexually was ILLEGAL still in the UK . That's only 58 years ago . As Christians , we know who we have to follow , culture is driven by the media and the money grabbers . Nothing to do with us as we r not of this world .

 

[Suze]

That's exactly the problem for fundamentalistic christians: You think that you've got the whole truth of everything, I mean the BIG TRUTH. The really BIG OVERALL TRUTH. This feeling inside you may make you loosing respect of the believes of others, you doing hardcore argumentation against their way of living. Then barriers are made, polarized, you know the "We against Them philosophy". In an extreme variant, it may lead into violence. Just consult any history book and you will find that I am right (Tip: Fascism).

Now on the other hand, if you have a deep conviction of what is the truth, and that you are on the bright side, and that the ones opposing your view are at the dark side, then why should you not fight for your case? I mean, I fight for my case, which is a liberal, democratic, secular viewpoint. And whoever disagrees with this view in a fundamental way I will fight, not with guns of course, but with arguments through discussion.

So as we say in Norway: "Slik går nu dagan....."
Meaning something like: "In such a way, the days are passing....."

U say your view point is secular ? So u r not religious then ?

 

[Suze]

Do you think they are that way because you did not teach them the right way?

I was brought up with some slight religion from my junior school and my grandparents but , also with a very promiscuous mother and I was aware of that from a very young age . I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice . Nothing on earth could make me want to have sex with a woman . I've been tested in this way , I passed , flying colours .
What turns u on is , what turns u on , what turns u off is what turns u off we don't always know why .

 

[the_seeker]

I also know that plenty of so called straight people , do all the things that homosexuals do , they just don't advertise it . None of it is my business unless u ask me what I think then , I speak from my heart .

OK.