Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[Biilybob65]

STUDY: Have Miraculous Tongues Ceased?
1. What Were “Tongues” in the Bible?

Biblical definition:
Tongues were known human languages, not ecstatic speech.

Acts 2:4–11 – Every listener heard the apostles speaking in their own native language

Acts 10:46; Acts 19:6 – A sign confirming divine action

1 Corinthians 14:21 (quoting Isaiah 28:11) – “Other tongues” = foreign languages

Key point: Tongues were miraculous, intelligible languages, used as signs, not private prayer languages.

2. The Purpose of Tongues
A. Tongues Were a Sign

1 Corinthians 14:22

“Tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers”

Mark 16:20

The Lord confirmed the word through accompanying signs

Hebrews 2:3–4

God bore witness with signs, wonders, and gifts of the Holy Spirit

Signs confirm revelation — once revelation is confirmed, signs are no longer needed.

3. Tongues Were Temporary by Design
A. Paul Explicitly Says Tongues Would Cease

1 Corinthians 13:8

“Whether there are tongues, they will cease”

Paul contrasts:

Temporary gifts (tongues, prophecy, knowledge)

Permanent virtues (faith, hope, love)

4. When Would Tongues Cease?
A. “When That Which Is Perfect Has Come”

1 Corinthians 13:9–10

“We know in part… but when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away”

“Perfect” (Greek: teleios) means: complete, mature, finished.

Context is revelation, not Jesus’ return.

5. The Completed Revelation View

The New Testament was revealed piece by piece through inspired men using miraculous gifts.

John 16:13 – Apostles guided into all truth

Ephesians 4:11–13 – Gifts until the church reached maturity

James 1:25 – “The perfect law of liberty”

Jude 3 – “The faith once for all delivered”

Once God’s word was fully revealed and confirmed, partial means ended.

6. Historical Confirmation

After the apostolic age:

Miraculous gifts fade from church history

Early writers (1st–3rd centuries) speak of gifts as past, not present

This matches the biblical expectation of cessation.

7. Why Tongues Don’t Match Today’s Practice

Modern “tongues” differ from biblical tongues:

Biblical Tongues Modern Claims
Known languages Ecstatic speech
Interpretable Often not
Public sign Private experience
Confirmed revelation No new revelation

1 Corinthians 14:27–28 – No interpreter? Remain silent

1 Corinthians 14:33 – God is not the author of confusion

Much modern practice violates apostolic instruction.

8. Do Christians Lack Anything Today?

No.

2 Timothy 3:16–17

Scripture thoroughly equips the man of God for every good work

2 Peter 1:3

God has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness

If Scripture is sufficient, miraculous gifts are unnecessary.

CONCLUSION

According to Scripture:

Tongues were miraculous signs

They were temporary

They ceased when God’s revelation was complete

Love, faithfulness, and obedience remain

“So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17)

 

[Wansvic]

What makes you so sure that tongues have not ceased?

Consider that the Bible states that at some point in time that tongues will cease, 1st Cor. 13:8.

Consider that no one today speaks in this supernatural manner.

It is fair to say that tongues ended at some unknown moment in the past.

Just like manna simply ceased to fall, so too has tongues.

This lines up with scripture much more then believing that tongues is somehow still going on today.

I am sure tongues have not ceased.

During a church service, at about the age of 12, I received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. As an adult I was water baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. However, years later, I was re-baptized when I became aware that the apostles consistently administered water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. It was at that point, that I began to understand scriptures with greater clarity. (John 3:3)

About 10 years later, God had me speak a message in tongues that was interpreted by someone else. I had not been seeking the Spiritual gift. However, while praising God in the worship service He decided to flow through me and speak a message to the congregation.

As I was praising God I could feel His presence stronger than in times past; I sensed something was definitely different but had no idea what was going on. As I continued to worship, someone to my left began to speak in tongues. I remember thinking Lord if that was what you wanted me to do I would have done that. Immediately the individual stopped speaking. I felt what can only be described as an internal explosion; a feeling of complete fullness that my body could not contain. To my utter dismay the fullness began pouring out in the form of tongues. There I was, normally the shy, quiet one, loudly proclaiming part of a message that was afterward interpreted. I say part, because the interpretation was separated by a short pause. God had the other person start the message and after the pause He concluded it through me.

On the drive home, the incident kept running over in my mind. I was amazed at what happened. I questioned the Lord about the explosive feeling. His quiet whisper was, “I consumed the sacrifice.” I wasn’t sure what that meant at first. God revealed that He received what I was willing to give and spoke His message through me. And something that happened a week or two afterward provided confirmation concerning the need to be willing to be used. While in worship service I began to feel the same strong presence of God and became nervous about speaking in front of everyone again so I quenched the Spirit. And immediately I felt the strong presence lift and someone near me spoke God's message that was interpreted by another. Afterward I felt terrible. But later understood all was not lost; it was a learning experience. If God ever decides to use me again I know I won't resist.

I might add that I frequently speak in tongues in personal prayer with God. But have only been used to operate in the Spiritual gift of tongues on that one occasion. And I can tell you the manifestation of tongues for each differs tremendously.

Also, even though I wasn’t seeking proof, I thank God for confirming through the experience what I already knew was revealed in His word. God uses the manifestation of tongues for different purposes. First, it is the sign that the Holy Ghost has come to dwell inside all believers. And secondly, not all operate in the Spiritual gift of tongues that requires the gift of interpretation for the edification of others.

 

[Wansvic]

What makes you so sure that tongues have not ceased?

...

Another testimony that reveals tongues have not ceased:

A family member approached me, and said, “I don’t know why but I have this full feeling throughout my body. Why do you think I feel this way?” My immediate thought was the feeling was due to the presence of Jesus. She was overhearing discussions I and others were having. (Matt. 18:20) I told her she was probably being affected by our conversation. She admitted that she had recently prayed about wanting a better relationship with God.

I began to listen to another comment when she approached me again. “Something is going on, the feeling is getting stronger and stronger.” I assured her the feeling was normal. She smiled and began to walk away but immediately did an about face and grabbed my arm and pulled me behind the nearest camper.

I had no idea what was going on. When I questioned her she lifted her hands above her head and slowly lowered them and said, what I'm feeling is so strong. I don’t know exactly what's causing it. This has never happened to me before.” As I watched, her gestures reminded me of a waterfall. I still did not understand what she was experiencing. Then I heard, not audibly but in my spirit, “I’m going to fill her with My Spirit.”

I thought, Oh, duh. I should have seen the signs. People frequently get overwhelmed prior to experiencing the infilling of the Holy Ghost. In comparison, it is like water filling a container and then overflowing.

I said, “Marie, lift your arms and praise God because He is going to fill you with His Spirit.” She immediately raised her arms and began praising God. In that instant God filled her with His Spirit and her praise turned into another language. Her eyes were full of wonder as she continued speaking to God.(1 Cor. 14:2) When she finally stopped, she said over and over, "That was God!".

What she said next still amazes me:
“God is really something. I know why He did this. If someone had asked to pray for me to receive His Spirit I would have been afraid to say yes. I’ve been told for years that speaking in tongues is of the devil. And now I know that is not true. What just happened did not come from the devil! That was God! It was really God!” She was overwhelmed and amazed. I couldn’t stop smiling. I was so happy for her.

Throughout the rest of our time together, Marie had gone from being quiet and reserved to a person full of joy. We sat together and studied the bible. No sooner did one question get answered, we were turning pages to reveal the next. She insisted on seeing every answer for herself. She had a thirst that could not be quenched.

We studied what the bible said about salvation in the Book of Acts. “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” (Acts 2:36-39)

Every time I visit that area, I can't help but recall the day that God bestowed His gracious gift of the Holy Ghost to a hungry soul that longed for a closer relationship with Him. Marie asked and God responded: “And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? (Luke 11:9-10, 13)

Lastly, a scripture popped into my mind while writing about Marie’s fear of receiving the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues due to a previous denominational teaching: “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” (2 Tim. 1:7) It is, the thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy. (John 10:10) And the fear of receiving the Holy Ghost can rob one of the chance to enter into God’s kingdom for eternity.

Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.” John 14:15-17

 

[CS1]

STUDY: Have Miraculous Tongues Ceased?
1. What Were “Tongues” in the Bible?

Biblical definition:
Tongues were known human languages, not ecstatic speech.

Acts 2:4–11 – Every listener heard the apostles speaking in their own native language

Acts 10:46; Acts 19:6 – A sign confirming divine action

1 Corinthians 14:21 (quoting Isaiah 28:11) – “Other tongues” = foreign languages

Key point: Tongues were miraculous, intelligible languages, used as signs, not private prayer languages.

2. The Purpose of Tongues
A. Tongues Were a Sign

1 Corinthians 14:22

“Tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers”

Mark 16:20

The Lord confirmed the word through accompanying signs

Hebrews 2:3–4

God bore witness with signs, wonders, and gifts of the Holy Spirit

Signs confirm revelation — once revelation is confirmed, signs are no longer needed.

3. Tongues Were Temporary by Design
A. Paul Explicitly Says Tongues Would Cease

1 Corinthians 13:8

“Whether there are tongues, they will cease”

Paul contrasts:

Temporary gifts (tongues, prophecy, knowledge)

Permanent virtues (faith, hope, love)

4. When Would Tongues Cease?
A. “When That Which Is Perfect Has Come”

1 Corinthians 13:9–10

“We know in part… but when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away”

“Perfect” (Greek: teleios) means: complete, mature, finished.

Context is revelation, not Jesus’ return.

5. The Completed Revelation View

The New Testament was revealed piece by piece through inspired men using miraculous gifts.

John 16:13 – Apostles guided into all truth

Ephesians 4:11–13 – Gifts until the church reached maturity

James 1:25 – “The perfect law of liberty”

Jude 3 – “The faith once for all delivered”

Once God’s word was fully revealed and confirmed, partial means ended.

6. Historical Confirmation

After the apostolic age:

Miraculous gifts fade from church history

Early writers (1st–3rd centuries) speak of gifts as past, not present

This matches the biblical expectation of cessation.

7. Why Tongues Don’t Match Today’s Practice

Modern “tongues” differ from biblical tongues:

Biblical Tongues Modern Claims
Known languages Ecstatic speech
Interpretable Often not
Public sign Private experience
Confirmed revelation No new revelation

1 Corinthians 14:27–28 – No interpreter? Remain silent

1 Corinthians 14:33 – God is not the author of confusion

Much modern practice violates apostolic instruction.

8. Do Christians Lack Anything Today?

No.

2 Timothy 3:16–17

Scripture thoroughly equips the man of God for every good work

2 Peter 1:3

God has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness

If Scripture is sufficient, miraculous gifts are unnecessary.

CONCLUSION

According to Scripture:

Tongues were miraculous signs

They were temporary

They ceased when God’s revelation was complete

Love, faithfulness, and obedience remain

“So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17)

unfortunately, you used only a few verse from the chapter in first Corinthians. To know the context you must read all three chapter in 1Corthinains 12 through 14.

You cherry picked to make your position seem firm. It is not.

1. There is nothing in your post that provided one verse in the Bible that says The Gift of tongues have stopped.

to say that without biblical proof is error.


2. Paul very clearly said in chapter for 14:2 "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

You must stay with the unit chapter in context with the text. chapter 12 through 14 are to be taken together.

 

[Lamar]

Another testimony that reveals tongues have not ceased:

A family member approached me, and said, “I don’t know why but I have this full feeling throughout my body. Why do you think I feel this way?” My immediate thought was the feeling was due to the presence of Jesus. She was overhearing discussions I and others were having. (Matt. 18:20) I told her she was probably being affected by our conversation. She admitted that she had recently prayed about wanting a better relationship with God.

I began to listen to another comment when she approached me again. “Something is going on, the feeling is getting stronger and stronger.” I assured her the feeling was normal. She smiled and began to walk away but immediately did an about face and grabbed my arm and pulled me behind the nearest camper.

I had no idea what was going on. When I questioned her she lifted her hands above her head and slowly lowered them and said, what I'm feeling is so strong. I don’t know exactly what's causing it. This has never happened to me before.” As I watched, her gestures reminded me of a waterfall. I still did not understand what she was experiencing. Then I heard, not audibly but in my spirit, “I’m going to fill her with My Spirit.”

I thought, Oh, duh. I should have seen the signs. People frequently get overwhelmed prior to experiencing the infilling of the Holy Ghost. In comparison, it is like water filling a container and then overflowing.

I said, “Marie, lift your arms and praise God because He is going to fill you with His Spirit.” She immediately raised her arms and began praising God. In that instant God filled her with His Spirit and her praise turned into another language. Her eyes were full of wonder as she continued speaking to God.(1 Cor. 14:2) When she finally stopped, she said over and over, "That was God!".

What she said next still amazes me:
“God is really something. I know why He did this. If someone had asked to pray for me to receive His Spirit I would have been afraid to say yes. I’ve been told for years that speaking in tongues is of the devil. And now I know that is not true. What just happened did not come from the devil! That was God! It was really God!” She was overwhelmed and amazed. I couldn’t stop smiling. I was so happy for her.

Throughout the rest of our time together, Marie had gone from being quiet and reserved to a person full of joy. We sat together and studied the bible. No sooner did one question get answered, we were turning pages to reveal the next. She insisted on seeing every answer for herself. She had a thirst that could not be quenched.

We studied what the bible said about salvation in the Book of Acts. “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” (Acts 2:36-39)

Every time I visit that area, I can't help but recall the day that God bestowed His gracious gift of the Holy Ghost to a hungry soul that longed for a closer relationship with Him. Marie asked and God responded: “And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? (Luke 11:9-10, 13)

Lastly, a scripture popped into my mind while writing about Marie’s fear of receiving the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues due to a previous denominational teaching: “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” (2 Tim. 1:7) It is, the thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy. (John 10:10) And the fear of receiving the Holy Ghost can rob one of the chance to enter into God’s kingdom for eternity.

Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.” John 14:15-17

You are presenting a subjective response to what is clearly a objective biblical concept. Can you truly not see this?

The Bible presents tongues and the other physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit as objective not subjective.

Is this really your argument???

Jesus, Peter and Paul did not prove the miraculous with stories but this is what you are attempting.

If this is the basis of your reality then you are sadly both spiritually and figuratively blind.

Think about this.

When Peter referred to Joel 2:28-29 at Pentecost, he was not using the verse to prove that what was happening was real but to explain the source of the physical event. You are doing the opposite.

You are citing a verse and then pointing to something you believe is supernatural as validation that the event was of the Holy Spirit.

This is backward thinking. First prove that something supernatural is actually occurring and then apply scripture.

 

[Lamar]

unfortunately, you used only a few verse from the chapter in first Corinthians. To know the context you must read all three chapter in 1Corthinains 12 through 14.

You cherry picked to make your position seem firm. It is not.

1. There is nothing in your post that provided one verse in the Bible that says The Gift of tongues have stopped.

to say that without biblical proof is error.


2. Paul very clearly said in chapter for 14:2 "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

You must stay with the unit chapter in context with the text. chapter 12 through 14 are to be taken together.

Was there a need for a verse of scripture for the Israelites to understand that the gift of manna had ceased?

They knew it the moment the manna ceased. They did not insist on a formal proclamation from God to accept this reality.

You would be wise to take this into consideration.

 

[CS1]

Was there a need for a verse of scripture for the Israelites to understand that the gift of manna had ceased?

They knew it the moment the manna ceased. They did not insist on a formal proclamation from God to accept this reality.

You would be wise to take this into consideration.

the context of manna and the gift of tongues are as about as close related as the Philistines with the Israelites.

and does not the Bible provide another type of manna that did come down from Heaven once and for all to feed and satisfice ?

Is not Jesus the Bread of Life that came down from Heaven ? Is not the gift of the Holy Spirit and His gifts to the church still with the Church as the Spirit remains? Or did that Stop too? You would be wise to take this into consideration.

 

[FlyingDove]

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

Unclean → immerse → clean.

Impure → immerse → pure.

Out of fellowship → immerse → restored. These immersions never removed sin. They restored ritual purity, not forgiveness.

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God.

Repent:
Strong's Hebrew: h7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.

Acts 2, Peter is speaking to a Jewish audience using Jewish purification categories. Repent > return to God. Baptism > purification washing. Neither word means "water causes salvation."

Acts 2:1–4, The 120 received the Holy Spirit & were FOREVER (Jn 14:16) SEALED (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14) & saved BEFORE WATER. So water IS NOT/CAN NOT be the saving agent. This destroys the idea that Peter is giving a water salvation formula.

Remission in the NAME, Not the Water
Acts 2:38, Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" "for" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Peter already said in Acts 2:21:
Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. He doesn't contradict himself 17 verses later.

Peter himself explains Acts 2:38 in Acts 10:
Cornelius believed, received forgiveness through His NAME, received the Holy Spirit & was accepted by God before water.

Peter then says:
They HAVE received the Holy Spirit, can anyone forbid water? If they already HAVE the Spirit, water cannot be the cause of salvation.

In every conversion in Acts:
HEAR, BELIEVE, RECEIVE > the Spirit, THEN water baptism. Never the reverse.

Paul agrees with Peter:
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(NOTE: Paul say EXACTLY the same thing Peter Quoted Joel saying. Calling on the NAME is the CAUSE)

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].
(NOTE: They HEARD > BELIEVED > REVEIVED the HOLY SPIRIT & are NOW OWNED & PROTECTED by GOD & NO WATER NEEDED!)

Finally:
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: For by "ONE SPIRIT" we are "ALL BAPTIZED" "INTO ONE BODY! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing forever indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Spiritual baptism is the event where, through repentance > from unbelief to belief/FAITH. Placed in Jesus sacrificial sin atoning death & resurrection. The believer is FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwelt/BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14), eternal life giving (Jn 10:28) Holy Spirit!

Spiritual baptism doesn't require any hands or H2O.

Col 2:11 In whom also ""ye are circumcised with the circumcision"" ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ""
(NOTE: The baptism of the ETERNALLY SEALING (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4) FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn14:16) Holy Spirit is a ""Spiritual Circumcision Covenant"" done ""by Christ Alone"", WITHOUT HANDS & WITHOUT WATER.)

 

[Lamar]

the context of manna and the gift of tongues are as about as close related as the Philistines with the Israelites.

and does not the Bible provide another type of manna that did come down from Heaven once and for all to feed and satisfice ?

Is not Jesus the Bread of Life that came down from Heaven ? Is not the gift of the Holy Spirit and His gifts to the church still with the Church as the Spirit remains? Or did that Stop too? You would be wise to take this into consideration.

The gifts of manna and tongues are great examples of physical supernatural manifestations that have ceased. You are simply turning a blind eye to this because it does not follow your ideology.

The gift of manna ceased without a proclamation.
The gift of tongues ceased without a proclamation.

Your "Jesus the Bread of Life" is feeble. A sign that you are stumped.

We do not live in an age of the miraculous but one of faith without sight.

If we are still living in an age of the miraculous then the promised blessing of John 20:29 is not available.

Labeling the glossolalia of today as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is not just wrong but blasphemous.

 

[Lamar]

I am sure tongues have not ceased.

During a church service, at about the age of 12, I received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. As an adult I was water baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. However, years later, I was re-baptized when I became aware that the apostles consistently administered water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. It was at that point, that I began to understand scriptures with greater clarity. (John 3:3)

About 10 years later, God had me speak a message in tongues that was interpreted by someone else. I had not been seeking the Spiritual gift. However, while praising God in the worship service He decided to flow through me and speak a message to the congregation.

As I was praising God I could feel His presence stronger than in times past; I sensed something was definitely different but had no idea what was going on. As I continued to worship, someone to my left began to speak in tongues. I remember thinking Lord if that was what you wanted me to do I would have done that. Immediately the individual stopped speaking. I felt what can only be described as an internal explosion; a feeling of complete fullness that my body could not contain. To my utter dismay the fullness began pouring out in the form of tongues. There I was, normally the shy, quiet one, loudly proclaiming part of a message that was afterward interpreted. I say part, because the interpretation was separated by a short pause. God had the other person start the message and after the pause He concluded it through me.

On the drive home, the incident kept running over in my mind. I was amazed at what happened. I questioned the Lord about the explosive feeling. His quiet whisper was, “I consumed the sacrifice.” I wasn’t sure what that meant at first. God revealed that He received what I was willing to give and spoke His message through me. And something that happened a week or two afterward provided confirmation concerning the need to be willing to be used. While in worship service I began to feel the same strong presence of God and became nervous about speaking in front of everyone again so I quenched the Spirit. And immediately I felt the strong presence lift and someone near me spoke God's message that was interpreted by another. Afterward I felt terrible. But later understood all was not lost; it was a learning experience. If God ever decides to use me again I know I won't resist.

I might add that I frequently speak in tongues in personal prayer with God. But have only been used to operate in the Spiritual gift of tongues on that one occasion. And I can tell you the manifestation of tongues for each differs tremendously.

Also, even though I wasn’t seeking proof, I thank God for confirming through the experience what I already knew was revealed in His word. God uses the manifestation of tongues for different purposes. First, it is the sign that the Holy Ghost has come to dwell inside all believers. And secondly, not all operate in the Spiritual gift of tongues that requires the gift of interpretation for the edification of others.

Your personal "through the experience" does not change reality.

The glossolalia of today is not the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit of the New Testament.

Not even close.

 

[Wansvic]

You are presenting a subjective response to what is clearly a objective biblical concept. Can you truly not see this?

The Bible presents tongues and the other physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit as objective not subjective.

Is this really your argument???

Jesus, Peter and Paul did not prove the miraculous with stories but this is what you are attempting.

If this is the basis of your reality then you are sadly both spiritually and figuratively blind.

Think about this.

When Peter referred to Joel 2:28-29 at Pentecost, he was not using the verse to prove that what was happening was real but to explain the source of the physical event. You are doing the opposite.

You are citing a verse and then pointing to something you believe is supernatural as validation that the event was of the Holy Spirit.

This is backward thinking. First prove that something supernatural is actually occurring and then apply scripture.

Note Peter's words in verse 16; THIS IS THAT. Meaning tongues is the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:4-18
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 BUT Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But THIS IS THAT which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon ALL flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"

I believe God's word and it reveals tongues is the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit. All accounts that provide specific details confirm this to be true.

Manifestation of tongues serve different purposes. Tongues that result from the initial infilling require no interpretation. Whereas, the Spiritual gift of interpretation is required when God has someone present a message to a body of believers via the Spiritual gift of tongues. The Apostle Paul touches on this point, "...he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor. 14:2. Paul went on to say people would not even recognize that authentic thanks were being expressed in the spirit.

1 Cor 14:15-19
"I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

 

[Wansvic]

Your personal "through the experience" does not change reality.

The glossolalia of today is not the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit of the New Testament.

Not even close.

Faith is the key.

 

[CS1]

The gifts of manna and tongues are great examples of physical supernatural manifestations that have ceased. You are simply turning a blind eye to this because it does not follow your ideology.

The gift of manna ceased without a proclamation.
The gift of tongues ceased without a proclamation.

Your "Jesus the Bread of Life" is feeble. A sign that you are stumped.

We do not live in an age of the miraculous but one of faith without sight.

If we are still living in an age of the miraculous then the promised blessing of John 20:29 is not available.

Labeling the glossolalia of today as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is not just wrong but blasphemous.

well, that is a great example of Allegorizing scripture which is improper Biblical Interpretation.

 

[Lamar]

Note Peter's words in verse 16; THIS IS THAT. Meaning tongues is the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

No one here is debating that tongues is evidence of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is clear on this issue.

But this is a strawman and I will not bite.

The question remains the same.

Is modern day glossolalia the same as the physical supernatural manifestations of tongues recorded in the New Testament?

The reality is no.

 

[CS1]

No one here is debating that tongues is evidence of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is clear on this issue.

But this is a strawman and I will not bite.

The question remains the same.

Is modern day glossolalia the same as the physical supernatural manifestations of tongues recorded in the New Testament?

The reality is no.

The Term Modern glossolalia is an oxymoron. Is the Salvation that happen today Modern or the same as it was 2000 years ago?
The Holy Spirit, who is God, changed due to man's perception of what is "Modern?" the truth is no.

 

[Biilybob65]

See now we have a modern day delima. We have scripture that clearly teach that the gifts of witness will cease when there purpose is fulfilled. Then some cling to personal experience over recorded word. here is a study on recorded word.Did Tongues Serve a Temporary Purpose?
A Biblical Teaching Outline
I. Define the Question Biblically (Not Experientially)

Key issue:
Not “Do people claim tongues today?”
But “What does the New Testament teach about their purpose and duration?”

2 Corinthians 5:7 — “For we walk by faith, not by sight.”

Doctrine must rest on revelation, not experience.

II. What the Bible Clearly Says Tongues Are
A. Tongues are a sign, not a norm

1 Corinthians 14:22
“Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.”

Audience: Unbelievers

Function: Witness / confirmation

Source: Isaiah 28:11–12 (judgment sign to unbelieving Israel)

B. Tongues confirm the spoken word

Mark 16:20
“Confirming the word with signs following”

Hebrews 2:3–4
“God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders…”

Tongues are tied to:

Oral proclamation

Foundational revelation

Divine authentication

III. Where Tongues Appear in the Biblical Record
A. Directly given by the Spirit (no hands)

Acts 2:1–4 — Jews

Acts 10:44–46; 11:15 — Gentiles

B. Given through apostolic hands

Acts 8:17 — Samaritans

Acts 19:6 — Disciples of John

Observation:
Tongues appear only at key redemptive transitions:

Jew

Samaritan

Gentile

No repeated pattern beyond this foundational period.

IV. What the Epistles Do With Tongues
A. Regulation, not expansion

1 Corinthians 12–14 correct misuse

Tongues ranked lower than:

prophecy

understanding

edification

1 Corinthians 14:19
“Five words… than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.”

B. Paul explicitly says tongues will cease

1 Corinthians 13:8
“Whether there be tongues, they shall cease.”

The question is when, not if.

V. When Do Tongues Cease According to the Text?
A. When their purpose is fulfilled

Signs confirm revelation

Revelation becomes recorded Scripture

Jude 3 — “The faith… once for all delivered”

John 20:31 — “These are written, that ye might believe”

B. When faith shifts from signs to Scripture

Luke 16:31
“If they hear not Moses and the prophets…”

2 Timothy 3:16–17
Scripture makes the man of God complete

No verse says:

tongues continue to confirm Scripture

signs are needed after the record is complete

VI. The Narrative Trajectory of the New Testament

Acts — Signs appear, spread, authenticate

Early Epistles — Gifts regulated and restrained

Later Epistles — Tongues not mentioned

No text records tongues after apostolic foundation

Silence is not proof — but it points in a direction.

VII. What the Bible Does Not Say (Important)

The Bible never says:

Tongues continue until the end of the church age

Tongues are the normal evidence for all believers

Tongues are needed to sustain faith

Continuation requires inference; cessation fits textual flow.

VIII. Final Biblical Conclusion

Tongues were a sign for unbelievers
Tongues confirmed spoken revelation
Revelation has been fully delivered and recorded
Faith now rests in what is written
The text leans toward tongues having served their purpose
Continuation today relies more on experience than explicit Scripture

1 Corinthians 13:13
“Now abideth faith, hope, charity… but the greatest of these is charity.”

 

[CS1]

See now we have a modern day delima. We have scripture that clearly teach that the gifts of witness will cease when there purpose is fulfilled. Then some cling to personal experience over recorded word. here is a study on recorded word.Did Tongues Serve a Temporary Purpose?
A Biblical Teaching Outline
I. Define the Question Biblically (Not Experientially)

Key issue:
Not “Do people claim tongues today?”
But “What does the New Testament teach about their purpose and duration?”

2 Corinthians 5:7 — “For we walk by faith, not by sight.”

Doctrine must rest on revelation, not experience.

II. What the Bible Clearly Says Tongues Are
A. Tongues are a sign, not a norm

1 Corinthians 14:22
“Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.”

Audience: Unbelievers

Function: Witness / confirmation

Source: Isaiah 28:11–12 (judgment sign to unbelieving Israel)

B. Tongues confirm the spoken word

Mark 16:20
“Confirming the word with signs following”

Hebrews 2:3–4
“God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders…”

Tongues are tied to:

Oral proclamation

Foundational revelation

Divine authentication

III. Where Tongues Appear in the Biblical Record
A. Directly given by the Spirit (no hands)

Acts 2:1–4 — Jews

Acts 10:44–46; 11:15 — Gentiles

B. Given through apostolic hands

Acts 8:17 — Samaritans

Acts 19:6 — Disciples of John

Observation:
Tongues appear only at key redemptive transitions:

Jew

Samaritan

Gentile

No repeated pattern beyond this foundational period.

IV. What the Epistles Do With Tongues
A. Regulation, not expansion

1 Corinthians 12–14 correct misuse

Tongues ranked lower than:

prophecy

understanding

edification

1 Corinthians 14:19
“Five words… than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.”

B. Paul explicitly says tongues will cease

1 Corinthians 13:8
“Whether there be tongues, they shall cease.”

The question is when, not if.

V. When Do Tongues Cease According to the Text?
A. When their purpose is fulfilled

Signs confirm revelation

Revelation becomes recorded Scripture

Jude 3 — “The faith… once for all delivered”

John 20:31 — “These are written, that ye might believe”

B. When faith shifts from signs to Scripture

Luke 16:31
“If they hear not Moses and the prophets…”

2 Timothy 3:16–17
Scripture makes the man of God complete

No verse says:

tongues continue to confirm Scripture

signs are needed after the record is complete

VI. The Narrative Trajectory of the New Testament

Acts — Signs appear, spread, authenticate

Early Epistles — Gifts regulated and restrained

Later Epistles — Tongues not mentioned

No text records tongues after apostolic foundation

Silence is not proof — but it points in a direction.

VII. What the Bible Does Not Say (Important)

The Bible never says:

Tongues continue until the end of the church age

Tongues are the normal evidence for all believers

Tongues are needed to sustain faith

Continuation requires inference; cessation fits textual flow.

VIII. Final Biblical Conclusion

Tongues were a sign for unbelievers
Tongues confirmed spoken revelation
Revelation has been fully delivered and recorded
Faith now rests in what is written
The text leans toward tongues having served their purpose
Continuation today relies more on experience than explicit Scripture

1 Corinthians 13:13
“Now abideth faith, hope, charity… but the greatest of these is charity.”

LOL wow that was very good misuse of the text in 1cor 13. Is chapter 13 the final word of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit or did it continue in chapter 14? Do you think the context stops at chapter 13? Do you think Paul wrote in chapter and verses in his Letter the the church in Corinth? Or was that added later ?

The is a reason why they are Called the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and one must understand that when the text says "one who prophecies is greater than one who speaks in tongues you miss what was said after, that is very important in chapter 14.

it says " unless there is an interpretation. that means tongues and interpretation are equal to Prophesying. You spoke around the text to change the context. Why?

 

[Biilybob65]

LOL wow that was very good misuse of the text in 1cor 13. Is chapter 13 the final word of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit or did it continue in chapter 14? Do you think the context stops at chapter 13? Do you think Paul wrote in chapter and verses in his Letter the the church in Corinth? Or was that added later ?

The is a reason why they are Called the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and one must understand that when the text says "one who prophecies is greater than one who speaks in tongues you miss what was said after that very important in chapter 14.

it says " unless there is an interpretation. that means tongues and interpretation are equal to Prophesying. You spoke around the text to change the context. Why?

what is the biblical recorded purpose of tongues? Please be honest and show scripture support.

 

[CS1]

what is the biblical recorded purpose of tongues? Please be honest and show scripture support.

I have done so many times Paul said very clearly what speaking in tongues is in the church setting in chapter 14.

1cor 14:1-5

14 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied;

for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

The word of God says:

1.Tongues is speak to God not to man
2. he who speaks in Tongues edifies himself
3. tongues and Interpretation of tongues is equal to prophesying

The word "Great" in the Greek is meizōn which is seen as more effective unless there is an interpretation. And in chapter 13 there is nothing in the text that says The gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. No where i the who Bible is that even said.

 

[Biilybob65]

In 1 Corinthians 14 Paul is not encouraging the use of tongues but correcting the misuse of it say that people are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.” . Tongues is not for edifying the church and is the least of the supernatural gifts. Yet they are the modern most wished for and mistaught. 1 Corinthians does not say they will continue but for you to seek more profitable gifts. This chapter is for correcting the wrong desire not encouraging it