Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[Ouch]

Typical, you didn't answer a single passage I cited—you just asserted "not true" & moved on. Let's go to the text.

You claim "Paul never gives instructions on how to be saved." That's simply false.
1 Cor 15:1–4, Paul explicitly defines the """gospel by which we are saved""" is: "Christ died for our sins, was buried & rose again."

Rom 1:16, The gospel, (cited 1 Cor 15:1-4) is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.

Rom 10:9–13, If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved & "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Acts 16:30–31, When the jailer asks, "“What must I do to be saved?" Paul doesnt say "speak in tongues." He says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

Those are explicit salvation instructions. You can't just wave them away by saying "Paul was talking to churches."

You falsely claim: Paul was reborn in Acts, baptized in Jesus' name & spoke in tongues, proving its for all. Sorry Acts NEVER says Paul spoke in tongues at his conversion. Acts 9:17–18, He's filled with the Spirit & baptized. NO TONGUES MENTIONED!
Acts 22 & 26, Paul retells his conversion twice. NO TONGUES MENTIONED!

1 Cor 14:18, Paul says, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all," BUT that's about his gifted ministry, not his conversion pattern. Even if Paul did speak in tongues at some point, that doesn't make it a universal requirement.

Paul himself asks: "Do all speak with tongues?" (1 Cor 12:30). If tongues were required for salvation, Paul could never ask that question. This bankrupts you repeated false claim - tongues = salvation.

Here again this bankrupts your repeated false claim > "tongues = salvation" that contradicts Paul's own teaching.
Paul says:
Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:4–6, 29–30). The Spirit distributes gifts as He wills (1 Cor 12:11). If anyone does not have the Spirit, he is none of His (Rom 8:9). We are sealed with the Spirit when we believe (Eph 1:13–14).

If tongues were the proof of salvation, then:
All would have to speak in tongues (contradicting 1 Cor 12:30). The Spirit would not distribute "as He wills" but as you demand. No one could be saved at the moment of faith without a sign gift—contradicting Eph 1:13 & Rom 5:1–2.

The actual NT pattern is still the same:
Message: the gospel (1 Cor 15:1–4), Faith: belief in Christ (Eph 2:8–9), Holy Spirit SEALS the believer at the moment of belief (Eph 1:13–14), Union/placed into the Body by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13)

Tongues appear in Acts as signs at key covenant‑expansion moments (Acts 2, 10, 19). NOT as a universal salvation formula. You haven't refuted that, you've just ignored it.

So no, salvation is not "message + tongues."” It's grace through faith in Christ, sealed by the Spirit, with gifts distributed as He wills—not as YOU legislate.

When a person has lies as their foundation why go on?

What SPIFICE instructions did Paul give in 1 Cor 15:1-4??

 

[Wansvic]

I understand but since no one today has been able to authenticate this sign does this not create a problem?

What does this mean for all those who claim this supernatural ability but by all appearances do not have it?

I, too, offer the following with no disrespect intended.

Since the bible does establish speaking in tongues as the sign a person has been filled, and is a means of communication between God and man's renewed spirit, I don't see a lack of authentication to be of concern. I do, however, find rejecting something God has revealed in His Word due to the suspicions of others very concerning. Keep in mind we are accountable for our own actions not those of others.

Keep in mind that the multitude of denominations we see today are the direct result of choices made by others. Decisions made as to what to accept and/or reject in accordance with personal beliefs and/or experiences, or lack thereof in the case of speaking in tongues.

It is through faith in what is revealed in the Word that we receive what God promises.

"...without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

 

[FlyingDove]

When a person has lies as their foundation why go on?

What SPIFICE instructions did Paul give in 1 Cor 15:1-4??

I don't believe you're a liar, just mis-informed.

THE SUPREME NAME: Higher Than Angels, Higher Than All Creation, Confessed by Every Knee

Matt 28:18 Jesus said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Phil 2:9 God has highly exalted Him and given Him the name above every name.

Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, power, might, dominion & every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Heb 1:4 He has inherited a name more excellent than the angels.

Col 2:9-10 All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily; He is the head of all principality and power.

Heb 1:4 He has inherited a name more excellent than the angels.

THE NAME IS THE AGENT OF SALVATION
Jn 1:12 those who receive Him and believe in His name become children of God.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in His name is not condemned.
Jn 20:31 Life is found in His name.

FORGIVENESS IS THROUGH HIS NAME
Acts 10:43 everyone who believes in His name receives forgiveness of sins.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

SALVATION IS ACCESSED BY CALLING ON HIS NAME
Acts 2:21 whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Rom 10:13 everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Acts 22:16 calling on His name is the cleansing agent.

THE SPIRIT IS GIVEN IN HIS NAME
Jn 14:26 the Father sends the Spirit in My name.
(NOTE: The Spirit is salvations eternal seal.)

ETERNAL LIFE IS GRANTED FOR THE SAKE OF HIS NAME
1 Jn 2:12 Sins are forgiven for His name's sake.
1 Jn Believers in His name have eternal life.

ACCEPTANCE BEFORE GOD IS IN HIS NAME
Acts 4:12 salvation is in no other name under heaven.
Acts 5:41 They rejoice to suffer for the name

THE THEOLOGICAL CONCLUSION
The New Testament repeatedly attributes salvation, forgiveness, justification, sanctification, the gift of the Holy Spirit & eternal life to the NAME of Jesus.
not to water, not to rituals, not to tongues.

The NAME is the saving agent. The Spirit is the applying agent. Water never appears as the cause of salvation in any of the posts passages.

Rituals don't take away sin, water doesn't take away sin, speaking in tongues doesn't take away sin, good works don't take away sin.

Heb 9:22 Blood is the working agent that takes away sin

Jn 1:29 (B) Behold the Lamb of God, """""which taketh away the sin of the world."""""

Only Faith placed in the finished sacrificial sin atoning work of God's Lamb/Jesus Christ takes away sin.

Attention ritual promoters:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(NOTE: Calling on the NAME is the operative saving agent. The water is a commanded act of obedience, a public confession, an outward identification with His death & resurrection. It marks the beginning of discipleship, not the means of salvation.)

Jesus NAME is 1st cause the only Way, the Truth & He alone hold the keys to eternal life. Amen

 

[Ouch]

I don't believe you're a liar, just mis-informed.

THE SUPREME NAME: Higher Than Angels, Higher Than All Creation, Confessed by Every Knee

Matt 28:18 Jesus said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Phil 2:9 God has highly exalted Him and given Him the name above every name.

Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, power, might, dominion & every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Heb 1:4 He has inherited a name more excellent than the angels.

Col 2:9-10 All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily; He is the head of all principality and power.

Heb 1:4 He has inherited a name more excellent than the angels.

THE NAME IS THE AGENT OF SALVATION
Jn 1:12 those who receive Him and believe in His name become children of God.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in His name is not condemned.
Jn 20:31 Life is found in His name.

FORGIVENESS IS THROUGH HIS NAME
Acts 10:43 everyone who believes in His name receives forgiveness of sins.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

SALVATION IS ACCESSED BY CALLING ON HIS NAME
Acts 2:21 whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Rom 10:13 everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Acts 22:16 calling on His name is the cleansing agent.

THE SPIRIT IS GIVEN IN HIS NAME
Jn 14:26 the Father sends the Spirit in My name.
(NOTE: The Spirit is salvations eternal seal.)

ETERNAL LIFE IS GRANTED FOR THE SAKE OF HIS NAME
1 Jn 2:12 Sins are forgiven for His name's sake.
1 Jn Believers in His name have eternal life.

ACCEPTANCE BEFORE GOD IS IN HIS NAME
Acts 4:12 salvation is in no other name under heaven.
Acts 5:41 They rejoice to suffer for the name

THE THEOLOGICAL CONCLUSION
The New Testament repeatedly attributes salvation, forgiveness, justification, sanctification, the gift of the Holy Spirit & eternal life to the NAME of Jesus.
not to water, not to rituals, not to tongues.

The NAME is the saving agent. The Spirit is the applying agent. Water never appears as the cause of salvation in any of the posts passages.

Rituals don't take away sin, water doesn't take away sin, speaking in tongues doesn't take away sin, good works don't take away sin.

Heb 9:22 Blood is the working agent that takes away sin

Jn 1:29 (B) Behold the Lamb of God, """""which taketh away the sin of the world."""""

Only Faith placed in the finished sacrificial sin atoning work of God's Lamb/Jesus Christ takes away sin.

Attention ritual promoters:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(NOTE: Calling on the NAME is the operative saving agent. The water is a commanded act of obedience, a public confession, an outward identification with His death & resurrection. It marks the beginning of discipleship, not the means of salvation.)

Jesus NAME is 1st cause the only Way, the Truth & He alone hold the keys to eternal life. Amen

That's a lot, sure make things confusing.

Do I have to study everyone of those to understand what you say is true???

My dad always told me if you dassel them with brilliance baffle them with bull poo.

Does that normally work for you?


1. I guess I was not clear, give me or show me what specific instructions Paul gave on HOW TO BE REBORN in 1 Cor 15:1-4??


Sill waiting,

Two things your have to prove to be true, now 4.

2. "Not as a purification ritual or a means of remission, but as a discipleship marker & a public identification with His death & resurrection"

3. The real, effective baptism that PURIFIES & unites us to Christ is performed by the risen High Priest through the Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor 12:13).

4. That's Peter explanation of what happened at Cornelius house. Purification was by faith, not by water, not by tongues, not by ritual. God made "no distinction" & purified them the same way He purified the apostles — by faith.

AND IT'S A LIE, THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES, THEY WERE BAPTIZED!!

NOW ANOTHER LIE, THE SAME WAY HE PURIFIED THE APOSTLES???? WHERE DID THAT COME FROM???

Any chance instead of a bible study, and YOUR OPINION you can back up what comes out of your mouth with HIS WORD???

4 things to prove, no need for book or a bible study.

For instance I will make a statement.

Baptism is for remission of sins, now here's the proof.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

See how simple that is, not story time, did not post 20 scriptures easy as that.

 

[Lamar]

I don't see a lack of authentication to be of concern.

The claim of a supernatural ability does not need to be authenticated? Just the claim alone proves that the person has the manifestation and hence the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Am I understanding you correctly?

I most certainly do not reject that tongues was and is a potential act of the Holy Spirit today but no need for it to be authenticated???

Are there other claims of physical supernatural manifestations that you accept as being of God without first being tested?

 

[FlyingDove]

That's a lot, sure make things confusing.

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

 

[Ouch]

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

You are right and so sad, instead of keeping it simple you write a book ending with nothing accomplished well almost nothing.

End result you LIED, so we did learn something.

And just giving a bible study to cover it up, which I did not study it out.

The question is did you learn from your lies?

If you want to prove your not a liar just let me know we can go over them one by one, we all fall short.

FYI, you don't need to prove nothing to me, it's between you and JESUS.

10-4, Received, Over and out.

Best of luck.

 

[Biilybob65]

Does Peter and Paul teach the same gospel please show scriptures
Yes, Peter and Paul taught the same gospel. The New Testament clearly shows they preached one message of salvation centered on Jesus Christ, even though they often preached to different audiences (Peter primarily to Jews, Paul primarily to Gentiles).
Here are key scriptures that show their unity:
1. Peter and Paul Were Given the Same Gospel by God
Galatians 1:11–12 (Paul)
“The gospel which was preached by me is not according to man… but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.”
Matthew 16:16–19 (Peter)
Peter confesses Jesus as “the Christ, the Son of the living God” — the same foundation Paul preached (1 Corinthians 3:11).
2. They Publicly Confirmed They Preached the Same Gospel
Galatians 2:7–9
“When they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, just as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter… James, Cephas, and John… gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship.”
One gospel — different audiences.
3. Peter Preached Salvation Through Jesus Alone
Acts 4:12 (Peter)
“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
1 Peter 1:18–19
“You were redeemed… with the precious blood of Christ.”
4. Paul Preached the Same Christ-Centered Salvation
1 Corinthians 15:1–4 (Paul)
“Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again the third day.”
Romans 3:23–25
“All have sinned… being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”
5. Both Preached Repentance, Baptism, and Obedient Faith
Peter
Acts 2:38 — “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized… for the remission of sins.”
Acts 3:19 — “Repent therefore and be converted…”
Paul
Acts 17:30 — “God now commands all men everywhere to repent.”
Acts 22:16 — “Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.”
6. Peter Explicitly Endorsed Paul’s Teaching
2 Peter 3:15–16
“Our beloved brother Paul… according to the wisdom given to him… speaks in all his epistles…”
Peter calls Paul’s writings Scripture, proving doctrinal unity.
7. One Gospel for All People
Ephesians 4:4–6
“One body… one Lord, one faith, one baptism.”
Acts 15:7–11 (Peter speaking)
“We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
Conclusion
Same Savior
Same cross
Same resurrection
Same terms of salvation
Same gospel
Different men. Different missions. One gospel.
So they both teach the same as Acts 2:38
Yes — they both taught the same message found in Acts 2:38. The Scriptures show that Peter and Paul preached identical terms of salvation, even if the wording or audience differed.
Let’s let the Bible speak clearly.
Acts 2:38 (Peter) — The Pattern
“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
This includes:
Faith in Jesus
Repentance
Baptism
Forgiveness of sins
Paul Taught the Same Things
1. Repentance
Acts 17:30 — “God now commands all men everywhere to repent.”
2. Baptism for Forgiveness
Acts 22:16 — “Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Same result as Acts 2:38: sins washed away
3. Baptism into Christ
Romans 6:3–4 — “All of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death… that we also should walk in newness of life.”
Same meaning as “in the name of Jesus Christ.”
4. Salvation Connected to Baptism
Galatians 3:27 — “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
Peter Later Taught the Same Truth
1 Peter 3:21 — “Baptism now saves you… through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
Peter and Paul Say the Same Thing, Different Words
Acts 2:38 (Peter)Paul’s TeachingRepentActs 17:30Be baptizedActs 22:16For remission of sinsWash away your sinsIn Jesus’ nameBaptized into ChristReceive new lifeRomans 6:4
Even Gentiles Received the Same Terms
Acts 15:9, 11 — “He made no distinction between us and them… we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus.”
Conclusion
Peter preached Acts 2:38
Paul preached Acts 2:38
Luke recorded both — and never corrected either
God never offered a different plan of salvation
One gospel. One faith. One baptism.

 

[Biilybob65]

Part 3
The conclusion, therefore, is valid, which may be summarized thus:

All of the nine gifts in view here were miraculous.

All disappeared completely at the end of the apostolic age.

The mess at Corinth was a mingling of the true gift of tongues with emotional and psychologically induced ecstatic utterances, which were not miraculous at all but nonsense.

A further element of the disorder was the perversion and prostitution of the true gifts (on the part of a few), making it a device of self-glorification.

It was this mixture of genuine and false elements which made it impossible for Paul to condemn the false without appearing also to condemn the true gift. Remember, he was not present, but was writing a letter.

Therefore, he laid down the rules which would eliminate and destroy the false, but which would leave undisturbed the true gift.

Thus, there were three kinds of tongues in New Testament times: (1) those spoken by the apostles on Pentecost, (2) the gift of tongues in this passage which required an interpreter, and (3) the false tongues which had invaded Corinth.

Paul had the true gift of 1 Corinthians 12:10 here; but it may never be supposed that he engaged in the non-sensical blabberings affected by the Corinthian tongue speakers.

The nine miraculous gifts mentioned here are: (1) wisdom; (2) knowledge; (3) faith; (4) healings; (5) miracles; (6) prophecy; (7) discernments of spirits; (8) tongues; and (9) interpretation of tongues.

Is the true gift of speaking in tongues on earth today? The answer has to be negative. What is admittedly true of all other gifts in this list may not be denied as true of the eighth and ninth also. A more extensive examination of this entire question is found in 1 Corinthians 14.

Wonderful as was the true gift of tongues, it cannot fail to be significant that it appears last in Paul's list, both here and in 1 Corinthians 12:30. Why? Perhaps it was the fact of its being so easily counterfeited. In those days, as now, anybody could do it, not the real thing, of course, but the counterfeit. This is not intended as a denial of the sincerity of some who practice this; but the sincerity of its advocates has never been a reason sole for accepting any proposition, religious or otherwise.


The great Pauline teaching that the church comprises the spiritual body of Christ is among the most important teachings revealed to man. God's device of accounting people righteous is that of forming them into a corporate unity, of which Christ is head, all the saved being members of it, the body itself being identified as "Christ," and therefore partaking of the perfect righteousness of the Son of God himself. God saves people, not by injecting righteousness into them (on the grounds of their faith and/or obedience), but by transferring them "into Christ," identifying them "as Christ," and making them, in fact, to be Christ. By this heavenly device, man becomes truly righteous and thus saved, not as John Doe, but as Christ. Faith and obedience of the gospel are the conditions antecedent to God's transfer of sinners into Christ, baptism being the action through which God effects the actual entry into Christ; but neither the faith of the sinner nor any act of obedience is the ultimate ground of his redemption, that all-important ground being the perfect faith, obedience and righteousness of the Christ himself. For full discussion of this, see my Commentary on Romans, pp. 118-126. Any man failing to fulfill the prior conditions of being "in Christ" is not a part of the body in view here, as evidenced in the next verse.

In one Spirit were we all baptized ... Throughout the New Testament, Christian baptism is revealed to be one of the two essential elements of the new birth, without which no man may see the kingdom of God. These are: obedience to the ordinance of baptism and the reception of the Holy Spirit. Jesus joined these two essential elements by his requirement that people be "born of the water and of the Spirit" (John 3:5ff). Peter joined them on Pentecost by the command that all people should "repent and be baptized ... and ... receive the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38ff). There is no doubt whatever that Paul's words here refer to the same twin essentials of the new birth, the same being a prior condition of participation in the body of Christ.

In one Spirit ... As Kelcy said, `This is actually `by one Spirit,' making the Holy Spirit the agent or administrator of baptism."19 In a similar way, Christ was named as the actual administrator of the rite of baptism, even though his disciples actually did the baptizing (John 4:1,2). The unity of the godhead makes it correct to refer any action ordained and commanded by God, to the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit; and when the action is obeyed, it is proper to say that any one of them did it. This truth does not exclude the reception of the indwelling Spirit in Christian hearts, as Paul dogmatically emphasized that in the very next clause, "made to drink of one Spirit."

We were all baptized ... and were all made to drink of one Spirit ... As Metz correctly noted, "the word `baptized' relates to the actual act of baptism."20 The mention of the Spirit as the administrator of baptism in this verse provoked Hodge to declare that the baptism in view, therefore, is "the baptism of the Holy Ghost!"21 If that is true, it would make Paul here declare that all of the Corinthians were baptized in the Holy Ghost, or had received the Holy Spirit baptism! Who could believe such a thing? It is true of course that all of them had themselves baptized, and in consequence had all received the gift ordinary of the Holy Spirit, common to all Christians; but to suppose that those carnal Corinthians had "all" participated in the baptism of the Holy Spirit is impossible. Of course, the design of many scholars is to get water baptism out of this text altogether; but that is also impossible.

All made to drink of one Spirit ... This refers to the reception of the ordinary gift of the indwelling Spirit by the Corinthians in consequence of primary obedience to the gospel. "There is no evidence that all the disciples at Corinth, or any of them, had been baptized in the Holy Spirit."

Giving credit where credit is due. The 3 part post I made was from Burton Coffman's commentary found in studylight.org

 

[FlyingDove]

You are right and so sad, instead of keeping it simple you write a book ending with nothing accomplished well almost nothing.

End result you LIED, so we did learn something.

And just giving a bible study to cover it up, which I did not study it out.

The question is did you learn from your lies?

If you want to prove your not a liar just let me know we can go over them one by one, we all fall short.

FYI, you don't need to prove nothing to me, it's between you and JESUS.

10-4, Received, Over and out.

Best of luck.

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

 

[Ouch]

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

When you share HIS word you share the truth, when you put your opinion as it's the truth that's when the story time and lies start.

You shared this,

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

For instance this is just ONE of your comments, let alone THE OTHER 4 YOU FAILED TO PROVE WAS TRUE.

Your notes for the above,

(NOTE: 1. Repent = return to God. 2. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). 3. Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. 4. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

1, good to go.
2, and 3 go together they are not a separate incident!!! AND IT SURE IS IN THE WATER.

Notice BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE IN THE NAME OF JESUS FOR REMISSION OF SINS!!!!!

It DOES NOT SAY, be baptized to purify yourself, THEN,

It DOES NOT SAY, remissions of sins by calling on the Messiah!!!!

IT DOES SAY, BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE IN THE NAME OF JESUS FOR REMISSION OF SINS!!!!!

Then you tell me what Peter knew, if you want to know what Peter knew, HE KNOWS TO GET BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME.

Do you see how long it would take to prove you wrong???

Should I go to the next verse?

Because of people like you there are so many different denominations and knock offs of HIS word.

You TWIST HIS word to make it suit YOUR NEEDS all leading down the wrong road.

You can repent!! It's not to late!!

 

[FlyingDove]

When you share HIS word you share the truth, when you put your opinion as it's the truth that's when the story time and lies start.

You shared this,

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

For instance this is just ONE of your comments, let alone THE OTHER 4 YOU FAILED TO PROVE WAS TRUE.

Your notes for the above,

(NOTE: 1. Repent = return to God. 2. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). 3. Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. 4. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

1, good to go.
2, and 3 go together they are not a separate incident!!! AND IT SURE IS IN THE WATER.

Notice BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE IN THE NAME OF JESUS FOR REMISSION OF SINS!!!!!

It DOES NOT SAY, be baptized to purify yourself, THEN,

It DOES NOT SAY, remissions of sins by calling on the Messiah!!!!

IT DOES SAY, BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE IN THE NAME OF JESUS FOR REMISSION OF SINS!!!!!

Then you tell me what Peter knew, if you want to know what Peter knew, HE KNOWS TO GET BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME.

Do you see how long it would take to prove you wrong???

Should I go to the next verse?

Because of people like you there are so many different denominations and knock offs of HIS word.

You TWIST HIS word to make it suit YOUR NEEDS all leading down the wrong road.

You can repent!! It's not to late!!

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

 

[Ouch]

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

Same post?

Ok, how about you proving this to be true.

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Your note, water is the ceremonial purification act.

Can you back that up?

 

[FlyingDove]

Same post?

Ok, how about you proving this to be true.

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Your note, water is the ceremonial purification act.

Can you back that up?

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

 

[Ouch]

Its clear our many exchanges have been/are unfruitful.

2ndly, I have shared the truth with you & owe you further.

Finally: you have a belief you promote, as do I. This will be my standard reply:

Understanding baptism through the lens of Jewish purification, apostolic preaching & the New Covenant High Priest.
(NOTE: Source: Jewish Virtual Library, Topical Bible, Sefaria & Hirsch)

Under the Mosaic Law, Israel practiced many ceremonial water‑purification immersions (Ex 30:19–21, 40:12, Lev 6:27, 13:54, 14:8–9, 15:16; 16:4, 22:6). Every Israelite understood these washings. Someone who was impure/unclean before immersion was considered pure/clean after immersion. These were ceremonial purifications, not forgiveness rituals

A mikveh full immersion purification ritual expressed: I acknowledge I've been in an unclean state, I'm turning away from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God & community
(NOTE: Sources — Jewish Virtual Library; Topical Bible; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

John, Jesus, & Peter all spoke Aramaic & Hebrew, where repent meant Israel, return to God: Strong's Hebrew: 7725. שׁוּב (shub) -- Return, turn back, restore, repent repent not "get in water to be saved."

This is exactly how the Jews interpreted baptism.
John 3:25 says a dispute arose between John's disciples & a Jew "about purification". The debate wasn't about forgiveness or salvation, it was about purification. That's the category mikveh immersion/baptism expressed.
(NOTE: John the Baptist, his disciples, & Jesus' disciples all performed the baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4). This was a Jewish purification immersion ritual, unrelated to remission. John 3:25 confirms the crowds understood these baptisms as purification washings, preparing Israel to return to God & believe in the coming Messiah.)

John the Baptist's mission was to prepare the way of the Lord (Lev 17:11, Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2–3). His "baptism of repentance" was preparatory, not remissive. In Hebrew & Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב / shub) means return, turn back, restore — Israel, return to God. When the people confessed their sins, they were acknowledging that they had turned away from the Lord & through immersion they became pure/ceremonially clean = Mosaic purification washings,

Acts 19:4 confirms this: "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
(NOTE: John preached to Israel > return to God & believe in the One coming after me, the Messiah. Only Christ can remit & pardon sins; John's baptism never could/did.)

Acts and the Purification Pattern

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you "in the name of Jesus Christ" """for""" "the remission of sins", and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(NOTE: Repent = return to God. Be baptized = purify yourself (unclean > clean). Remission comes by calling on the Messiah, not by water. Peter is speaking to Israel, using the same purification categories they ALL knew)

Acts 22:16 “Be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
(NOTE: The water is the ceremonial purification act. The actual removal of sin happens by calling on the Lord. The washing is symbolic, the calling is effective.)

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
(NOTE: They believed, then they purified themselves through baptism & then they called on the Messiah for remission. Faith precedes baptism & remission is tied to Christ, not water.)

Water baptism does/did not remit or pardon sin. "Nothing external removes sin."

Scripture is clear:
Heb 9:22 (B) without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28 Jesus said; “For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Rev 1:5, “He washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Heb 4:14 “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.”

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Lev 16:21 Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The Old Covenant Pattern: Sin imputation by the High Priest.

Lev 16:21: Aaron the high priest (mediator between Gd & man) laid both hands on the sacrifice & confessed all the sins of the nation, imputing/transferring their sins onto the innocent substitute.

This was the foreshadow.

Jesus Is the Fulfillment:

Jesus is: “The mediator of the New Testament”, Our GREAT High Priest (Heb 4:14), The One who offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice (Matt 26:53) Jesus is the one who performs the real sin transfer/imputation.

When we trust in Jesus SACFRFICIAL SIN ATONING death & resurrection:

Our High Priest imputes ALL our sins onto Himself (Heb 10:10, 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 4:8, 11, 22–24) He forgives/pardons them ALL (Heb 10:10–18) & He imputes HIS righteousness onto us (2 Cor 5:21, James 2:23)

This is the New Covenant reality the Old Covenant only pictured.

Inescapable Conclusion: If water removes sin, then Jesus' blood does not & the tremendous price He paid is worthless.

Jesus Himself said: "My BLOOD is shed for the remission of sins." Your water baptism doctrine of sin removal doesn't just contradict Paul or Peter. It contradicts Jesus at the communion table.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

The only thing that can remove sin from the soul. Is FAITH placed in the FINISHED sin atoning work of our great God & Savor, Jesus the Christ.

To whom be all praise, honor & glory. Amen & amen.

You really don't care do you.

You should.

 

[Wansvic]

Can you elaborate as to why you disagree? I know you think you have but I would like to try to take this one step at time stating over here.

I apologize for the delay in answering you. I've been extremely busy.

The following is in reference to your first comment:
The accounts I shared reveal that all of the individuals were actually receiving the Holy Ghost:

“Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:…) Acts 8
“on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost…” Acts 10
“…the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues…” Acts 19


Consider the scripture reference that reveals that once a person is indwelt by the Holy Ghost they are empowered to witness to others. (Acts 1:8)

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth".



The idea that witnessing is limited to certain individuals is actually contrary to the teaching of the bible. The Great Commission applies to everyone:
Matthew 28:19–20: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you".

Note those Jesus considers to be His disciples: “Jesus said to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32



Mark 16:15-16 "And he said to them, 'Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved'.


John 17 includes a prayer that pertains to both those who walked with Jesus during His earthly ministry and those who would believe through their witness:
“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;” John 17:17-20


Matthew 5:16: "In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven".

2 Corinthians 5:20: "Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God".

Isaiah 43:10: "'You are my witnesses,' declares the Lord, 'and my servant whom I have chosen...'".


2. In the Acts 19 account there was no initial reference to water baptism at all. If Paul believed that the Holy Ghost was received upon obedience to water baptism, why not just ask whether the group obeyed the command to be water baptized?

Paul’s question was specific, “Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

Paul’s question reveals belief alone is not a guarantee that the Holy Ghost has come to dwell inside a believer. The account also reveals the Holy Ghost is not received upon obedience to water baptism. It was after the 12 men were water baptized that Paul laid hands on them, and at that point they received the Holy Ghost. Note as well that Paul stayed in Ephesus with the newly born again believers 2-3 years witnessing the truth to others. So the idea that Paul laid hands on the men so they could witness while he journeyed on does not line up with scripture.

Lastly, consider the Samaritan account. It reveals why Paul would ask the Ephesians if they had received the Holy Ghost yet. The Samaritans did not receive the Holy Ghost until days after they believed in Jesus and responded to the command to be water baptized in His name.

It is through searching and accepting all scriptures that the pieces begin to fit together.
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” Heb 11:6

May God Bless.

 

[Wansvic]

( have to disagree and think scripture will show we misunderstand what it is revealing.

Notice the accounts reveal 100% of the individuals actually received the Holy Ghost:

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

“Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:…) Acts 8

”..On the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost…For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Acts 10:45-46
(Peter makes a reference in Acts 11:15 that the Gentiles experienced the same thing that happened on the Day of Pentecost.)

“…the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues…” Acts 19. I do not believe that is insignificant that the account actually specifies the number of those involved. Interesting the gospel message came forth from 12 men at Pentecost, and the last detailed conversion account mentions 12 men going on to spread the same message.

 

[Wansvic]

Part 1

Before the New Testament was completed, while it was still being written, in certain places and at certain times, God gave special miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit's help of the churches.

These gifts were necessary in the days of the infancy of the church when as yet the body of perfectly revealed truth was incomplete. They were temporary measures designed for a special purpose.

"Here the apostle called the supernatural endowments of the first Christians GIFTS, because they were foretold under that name (Psalms 68:18; Ephesians 4:8)."9 They are also referred to in the several terms of Hebrews 2:4 as "signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will." All such supernatural wonders were scheduled to disappear (1 Corinthians 13:8); and their unique purpose was that of "confirming" the word of God (Mark 16:20), certainly not that of flattering the ego of Corinthian charismatics.

To profit withal ... "This means that they were for the common good; the spiritual gifts were to benefit others"12 Charismatic gifts were being utilized by the Corinthians for self-promotion, especially the more spectacular and showy gifts like tongue-speakings. This, of course, was totally wrong and contrary to God's purpose.

First, I think many overlook the fact that there is a difference in the "gift of the Holy Ghost", and "Spiritual gifts."

As revealed, the gift of the Holy Ghost is in fact the Holy Ghost. Whereas, the gifts as recorded in 1 Corinthians are Spiritual gifts that flow from those who have previously been indwelt. Spiritual gifts are for the edification of others.

I find it unconvincing that the scripture you reference is an indication that the gifts have ceased. Many others throughout history dispute that idea as well. The Holy Ghost's direction, and supernatural influence is as necessary today, if not more, as it was in apostolic times. People are longing to fill the void in their lives and fail to understand that the Holy Ghost is the answer.

I ask you to seriously consider something. What if what you believe is wrong? Then you're missing out on something very rewarding. And that is to see the lives of others changed through a willingness to allow the Holy Ghost access to you, in order to flow through you. Giving Him free reign to do as He will, in whatever way He chooses, to edify others is something to which nothing else can compare.

 

[Wansvic]

The claim of a supernatural ability does not need to be authenticated? Just the claim alone proves that the person has the manifestation and hence the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Am I understanding you correctly?

I most certainly do not reject that tongues was and is a potential act of the Holy Spirit today but no need for it to be authenticated???

Are there other claims of physical supernatural manifestations that you accept as being of God without first being tested?

My point is the bible reveals speaking in tongues is an authentic means of communication. Paul said no man understands the language spoken between God and man. (1 Cor. 14:2) And since scripture says that, I believe it.

Scripture also reveals that God uses people to present messages to the church body via the gift of tongues. When this occurs, the Holy Spirit initiates an interpretation of the message into the known language of the congregation. This does not occur though means of a learned ability; it is miraculous.

Having said all that, it's clear that tongues manifest differently and serve various purposes of God. And ultimately God is the only one that can be absolutely certain whether something is coming directly from Him or not. So a close intimate relationship with Him is imparative in order to allow Him to show us what is and is not authentic.

 

[Lamar]

My point is the bible reveals speaking in tongues is an authentic means of communication.

Agreed.

Paul said no man understands the language spoken between God and man. (1 Cor. 14:2) And since scripture says that, I believe it.

Certainly disagree. (1st Cor. 14:27)

Scripture also reveals that God uses people to present messages to the church body via the gift of tongues. When this occurs, the Holy Spirit initiates an interpretation of the message into the known language of the congregation. This does not occur though means of a learned ability; it is miraculous.

So which is it? If a person claims to be speaking in tongues, how are you to know if it is authentic?

Having said all that, it's clear that tongues manifest differently and serve various purposes of God. And ultimately God is the only one that can be absolutely certain whether something is coming directly from Him or not. So a close intimate relationship with Him is imparative in order to allow Him to show us what is and is not authentic.

You are sidestepping the question. Are claims of supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit not to be tested?

This seems to be your stance.

Is there not a supernatural gift to be able to test the claims of supernatural manifestations? (1st Cor. 12:10)