The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Undergrace1]

Sorry I do not understand your point. Paul never taught to break the Ten Commandments. He said it dishonors God Rom2:21-23 is sin Rom7:7 one is hostile to God Rom8:7-8 and keeping them is what matters 1 Cor7:19

perhaps you can post the quote from Paul you have in mind so we can look at the context. Thanks

Yes, we do need too understand what Paul means:

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Paul carries on, giving a personal example from his own life concerning what he wrote in the above:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet/one of the TC.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Romn7:4-13

 

[vassal]

In discussions with sabbatarians, basically what it all boils down to is that they don't believe the righteousness of the 4th commandment can be done without fixating on the letter of the commandment. In other words, obedience can't be achieved apart from a specific temporal requirement.

But this is simply not true because God clearly said that the righteousness of the 4th commandment is to know and trust that God is the one sanctifying us, which can be done every moment of every day through the witness of the indwelling holy spirit, which makes the specific temporal requirement of the 4th commandment irrelevant.

Did God excuse the Israelite in the desert coming out and try to collect Manna on the sabbath? God insists that his people any people who follow him remember it keep it, what we think is irrelevant not the 4th commandments itself. why did Jesus and Paul keep it if it is irrelevant. doing the will of God is what matters you can fight it all you want it still remains.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yes, we do need too understand what Paul means:

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Paul carries on, giving a personal example from his own life concerning what he wrote in the above:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet/one of the TC.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Romn7:4-13

First of all Paul is not contradicting Christ who said if you love Me keep My commandments and for us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30

Paul is a servant of Christ not the corrector of Christ and we have a verse that says many misunderstand Paul in his day that twist the Scriptures to their own destruction so we need to tread lightly when it comes to Paul and reconcile Scripture with Scripture.

Paul also speaks of the law of sin and death and compares it to the law of God sadly many think these are the same laws, when they are not.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul in Romans 7 is contrasting the law of flesh (sin) with the law of God. Basically he is contrasting the life of sin and asks a question

Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Which Chapter 8 answers.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

This goes back to my previous post, that if we are walking in Christ through His Spirit, He can help us overcome, When we refuse to obey the law of God, and stay in our sins sadly that's the wrong path Heb1-:26-30

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Did God excuse the Israelite in the desert coming out and try to collect Manna on the sabbath? God insists that his people any people who follow him remember it keep it, what we think is irrelevant not the 4th commandments itself. why did Jesus and Paul keep it if it is irrelevant. doing the will of God is what matters you can fight it all you want it still remains.

God refused to let a whole generation into their promise land for breaking the Sabbath commandment Eze20:15-16 and we are told plainly not to follow in their path of rebellion Eze20:13 Heb 3:7-19 and disobedience Heb4:11

To speak for God teaching people we do not have to obey what God asks- His own written and spoken Testimony, I think is taking liberties that only belong to God. Same as the Israelites God related that to idol worship. Not my words Eze20:16 because whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16 if we are replacing God's words with our own or anyone elses, its sending a message to God about what He asks.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Did God excuse the Israelite in the desert coming out and try to collect Manna on the sabbath? God insists that his people any people who follow him remember it keep it, what we think is irrelevant not the 4th commandments itself. why did Jesus and Paul keep it if it is irrelevant. doing the will of God is what matters you can fight it all you want it still remains.

Israel in the wilderness was under the law, which we aren't. Our focus is to be on things above in the spiritual realm, not things of the natural realm, which time is.

God requires that we know and trust that he is sanctifying us, not that we fixate on days.

Jesus kept it because he was under the law. Paul kept it because that was the best time to teach the gospel to Jews and gentile proselytes when they were gathered together in the synagogues on sabbaths. I have no doubt that Paul would have broken the letter if it meant spreading the gospel, eg, traveling, meeting with gentiles, etc. Peter was breaking the law by eating with gentiles, but stopped when he feared other Jews would know about it. So obviously "obedience", at least in that case, was just done out of fear of man.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

God says He sanctifies us though the Sabbath Eze20:12 so its silly to think we can profane God's Sabbath instead of spending quality time with Him as He asks Isa 58:13 and think we are being sanctified when He called it rebellion Eze20:13 Eze20:16

 

[NightTwister]

Your words, not Scripture.

God calls His law perfect Psa 19:7 just like our perfect Savior. God calls His laws, holy, just and good Rom7:12 is God not holy, just and good? Are we not called to be perfect and holy just as God? To claim we do this by disobeying the written Testimony of God Exo31:18 that He said if you love Me, keep what I say Exo20:6 that seems like a bad idea, but He gives us free will to listen to any voice we choose, even if it leads us down the wrong path. He tries to get our attention on His voice, to not harden our hearts Heb3:7-19 but not everyone hears.

So much misuse of scripture here.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God says He sanctifies us though the Sabbath Eze20:12 so its silly to think we can profane God's Sabbath instead of spending quality time with Him as He asks Isa 58:13 and think we are being sanctified when He called it rebellion Eze20:13 Eze20:16

You're a bit behind the times

Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth. John 17:17​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You're a bit behind the times

Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth. John 17:17​

All of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:172 including the 4th commandment they way God said it. Not the edited version by man which makes it untruth. Jesus also uses the commandments of God with the word of God as interchangeable. Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So much misuse of scripture here.

You are free to show me my error through Scripture and not just your words or because you say so. That is not a compelling argument address it with Scripture, not insults.

 

[Inquisitor]

So loving God means not only worshipping Him, not using His name in only a holy manner, loving our neighbor means stealing from them and lying to them. So the summary of love is what we want it to be, not what God says. There is no logic to this argument and its what million of professed Christians try to make this case, they claim, no we would never do these things, but than apply a different standard to the one commandment God said to Remember- that comes with God's blessings and sanctification as if man can do this themselves that came in this same unit written by the Holy Spirit, the same unit God claimed as His commandments Exo20:6.

I do not hold to the so called '10 commandments' because I am a Gentile.

I am not under the law of Moses but I am under the law of Christ.

Jesus designed the gospel to be so simple a child could call on His name.

Christianity is that belief in Jesus and not a set of rules that must be rigidly followed.

This is happening in almost all churches. The SDA church has shown steady growth since its inception. There will always be people leaving and entering churches, it happens.

There are no exceptions to the decline of Christianity worldwide in general.

It's the nature of modern society which makes reading the Bible and attending church.

A very difficult proposition for the younger folk as all they do is scroll on their phones.

We are firmly in a post Christian era now and it will get worse over time.

The SDA requires a full day of rest on Saturday and that is a huge call for anyone today.

Of course, the SDA is in decline there are no exceptions in the long run.

If I visited the SDA churches in my city I doubt there would be more 30 people in each church.

Except for their main SDA church in a wealthy suburb with an Adventist Hospital in the next suburb.

You cannot deny the reality of the era we live in.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

All of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:172 including the 4th commandment they way God said it. Not the edited version by man which makes it untruth. Jesus also uses the commandments of God with the word of God as interchangeable. Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13

Using your logic physical circumcision is still truth that must be obeyed. That, of course, is absurdity and confusion.

 

[Cameron143]

Did God excuse the Israelite in the desert coming out and try to collect Manna on the sabbath? God insists that his people any people who follow him remember it keep it, what we think is irrelevant not the 4th commandments itself. why did Jesus and Paul keep it if it is irrelevant. doing the will of God is what matters you can fight it all you want it still remains.

God sent manna on the Sabbath? Biblical reference?

 

[mailmandan]

So much misuse of scripture here.

That's to be expected when one keeps one foot planted in the old covenant plantation of law and ends up conflating the old and new covenants.

Luke 5:37 - And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. 38 But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved. 39 And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, ‘The old is better.

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I do not hold to the so called '10 commandments' because I am a Gentile.

I am not under the law of Moses but I am under the law of Christ.

Jesus designed the gospel to be so simple a child could call on His name.

Christianity is that belief in Jesus and not a set of rules that must be rigidly followed.


There are no exceptions to the decline of Christianity worldwide in general.

It's the nature of modern society which makes reading the Bible and attending church.

A very difficult proposition for the younger folk as all they do is scroll on their phones.

We are firmly in a post Christian era now and it will get worse over time.

The SDA requires a full day of rest on Saturday and that is a huge call for anyone today.

Of course, the SDA is in decline there are no exceptions in the long run.

If I visited the SDA churches in my city I doubt there would be more 30 people in each church.

Except for their main SDA church in a wealthy suburb with an Adventist church in the next suburb.

You cannot deny the reality of the era we live in.

My SDA church is packed. The last church I went to before I moved they had to build a new church to hold all the members. The SDA church is world-wide, not just in your neighborhood.

The Ten Commandments is God's commandments according to God Exo20:6 not sure why so many people lower what God claimed as His Deut 4:13 written and spoken by God the Creator of everything Exo20:11 Exo31:18 as attributed to man, the creation. Moses was there and didn't even take credit for them Exo32:16 so to speak over God and Moses as if we know better, seems like a bad idea. If we can't believe God at His own word on what He claimed as His Exo20:6 Isa58:13 I am not sure the point of our Bibles. The whole Bible is about the testimony of God through His prophets and apostles yet when it comes to God's own personal written and spoken Testimony Ex20:11 few believe.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Using your logic physical circumcision is still truth that must be obeyed. That, of course, is absurdity and confusion.

The Bible addressed this to death. Circumcision was never given to Gentiles in both Old or New Testament. The Sabbath Jesus said was made for mankind Mark2:27 came before Jew or Gentile Exo20:11 and was given to everyone who wants to join themselves to God and serve Him Isa 56:6-7 and is part of the Ten Commandments, the law of God Exo20:6 Deut4:13 and continue on in the New Heaven and New Earth for "all flesh" the saints Isa66:22-23

 

[Dino246]

God refused to let a whole generation into their promise land for breaking the Sabbath commandment Eze20:15-16

You misrepresent what happened. Unfortunately, that’s not a surprise.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The Bible addressed this to death. Circumcision was never given to Gentiles in both Old or New Testament. The Sabbath Jesus said was made for mankind Mark2:27 came before Jew or Gentile Exo20:11 and was given to everyone who wants to join themselves to God and serve Him Isa 56:6-7 and is part of the Ten Commandments, the law of God Exo20:6 Deut4:13 and continue on in the New Heaven and New Earth for "all flesh" the saints Isa66:22-23

The weekly sabbath was never required of gentiles. It isn't even mentioned in the bible until Israel was in the wilderness (Exodus 16:23), thousands of years after man was created.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You misrepresent what happened. Unfortunately, that’s not a surprise.

I thought God was pretty clear on what happened? No need to edit anything.

Eze 20:15 Moreover, I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land that I had given them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands, 16 because they rejected my rules and did not walk in my statutes, and profaned my Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The weekly sabbath was never required of gentiles. It isn't even mentioned in the bible until Israel was in the wilderness (Exodus 16:23), thousands of years after man was created.

God said it started from the very beginning Exo20:11 Exo20:16 proves it was being kept before God wrote it down. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, the word He used means mankind Mark2:27. Not sure how much clearer He could be. Unless one is not part of the human race, the Sabbath is not for them, if one is, well Jesus said it was. I beleive Him.

Salvation for the Gentiles
Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give [a]them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner (Gentiles)
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”