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Dear christians.
Please read my example of Hitler and the poor jude. As several have concluded, it's fair that Hitler goes to heaven while the atheist jude goes to hell. Now my question is:
Do all of you christians agree that this is fair? Every single one of you reading this?
No one reading this who is at least a little sceptical to this way of thinking about right and justice ?
Please read my example of Hitler and the poor jude. As several have concluded, it's fair that Hitler goes to heaven while the atheist jude goes to hell. Now my question is:
Do all of you christians agree that this is fair? Every single one of you reading this?
No one reading this who is at least a little sceptical to this way of thinking about right and justice ?
That's what the Bible says about hell and I believe it. But i have no intention of going there, so all my focus is on God and getting to know Him personally in my life. Not only to learn to live for Him but what I tell other people based on that personal walk with Him so that it isn't just book knowledge I'm sharing.
Sorry that I don't know more than a standard knowledge about hell but there are other people who know more about it.
It would be most interesting to have a kind of description of the realities of hell, so please come on!
I should elaborate. There are a lot of well-behaved people who will not be with God because they've rejected Jesus who is the only acceptible sacrifice to God the Father for our sins.
If somebody like Jeffrey Dahmer or your Hitler is saved, it is because he turned away from his sins, no longer wanrs to be enslaved to sin and is being empowered to live for God instead.
The atheist could be the nicest person who helped so many people, but if he has rejected jesus, then none of his few sins he may have commited can be forgiven. They are only forgiven in Jesus. The reason why a nice person might reject Jesus is because of pride - of thinking they don't need Jesus and dont want to be with God, to die well.
B
Blue155
Guest
Mercy is not getting what you deserve. Grace is getting what you don’t deserve.
Hitler didn’t become a Christian, but suppose he became a Christian based on what the word of God says.. that tells me that as long as one has a sincere heart of repentance, a desire to have salvation in Christ, and responds biblically to the gospel call of salvation (Acts 2:21, 38), then that tells me even the most wicked isn’t beyond saving.
I don’t deserve salvation. I don’t deserve heaven. I don’t deserve eternal life. I deserve hell. I don’t deserve forgiveness. I deserve to be eternally separated from the Almighty God for the sins..the wicked..the evil I have done not just on the outside of my body, but on the inside, but God had and has mercy on me (by not giving me what I deserve) and the fact He gave people (such as myself) a way to be saved when I didn’t deserve it is grace (getting what I don’t deserve). The fact He forgave me and continues to offer repentance to me when I didn’t and don’t deserve it, when I deserve judgment is still grace and mercy.
There are things I have done before and after as a Christian I wish I could forget. I wonder how God could ever forgive someone like me, but Jesus made all of that possible. I did not do one thing to deserve His forgiveness.
I am not good enough in and of myself to stand before a holy God. In other words, if salvation was solely based on doing a bunch of works to receive forgiveness, then I’m eternally damned.
But thanks be to God’s undeserving love, grace and mercy, there is hope for a wretched man that I can sometimes be. God’s grace, appearing through and by Jesus (Jn 1:17), has God reaching down to save when we didn’t deserve (and still don’t deserve).
God is a God of salvation (2 Sam. 22:47; 1 Chron. 16:35; Ps. 18:46; Ps. 24:5; Ps. 25:5; Ps. 27;:9; Is. 17:10; Is. 52:10; Micah 7:7; Hab. 3:18; Titus 2:11; Rev. 12:10; Phil. 1:28; Rom. 1:16; Lk. 3:6; 2 Peter 3:14-15; 1 Tim. 2:3-4; John 3:16; etc etc)
God’s mercy closes the door to hell, and His grace opens the door to heaven (Titus 3:4-5; Eph. 2:5-8).
I'm eternally grateful that God forgives completely. From east to west.
"As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us." (Ps. 103:12).
I'm thankful God remembers our sins no more (Heb. 8:12; Heb. 10:17; Jer. 31:34; Isaiah 43:25).
I'm thankful God is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy (Ps. 145:8-9).
I'm grateful that God is gracious in all His works (Ps. 145:17), is a long-suffering God (2 Peter 3:9, 15, Num. 14:18, Ps. 86:15).
I'm grateful that He loves righteousness and hates wickedness (Ps. 45:7)..He does not take pleasure in wickedness nor does evil dwell with Him (Ps. 5:4)... He is rich in mercy, goodness, kindness, and grace (Eph. 2:4; Rom. 2:4). Good and upright is the Lord (Psalm 25:8).
I'm so thanktul His love and mercy is everlasting (Jer. 31:3; Ps. 100:5), He is good (Jer. 33:11; 2 Chron. 16:34; Nahum 1:7), and He has no pleasure in the death of anyone, as He wants even the wicked to have life, as in be saved (Ezek. 18:32, 18:23, 33:11; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pe. 3:9).
I'm eternally grateful that His saving and amazing grace appeared in Christ Jesus who died for all men (Titus 2:11-12, 3:4; 2 Cor. 5:15), and that Christ's saving gospel is for all (Rom. 1:16; Mk. 16:15-16).
I’m eternally grateful that He teaches us by His grace in Christ on how to live godly and not sinfully (Titus 2:11-12).
I’m forever grateful to the gospel call of salvation so people are able to receive the remission of sins that is offered by Christ, (Acts 2:21, Acts 2:38; Matthew 28:19).
And I'm forever grateful that no one can work to earn His forgiveness. Instead, it was lovingly given by God through Jesus Christ, who loves all to provide the way to the Father to have eternal life (Jn. 3:16, 14:6; Acts 4:12; Acts 2:38). That's why it's a gift (Rom. 6:23).
Such is the mercy and grace of God. Such is the beauty of the gospel of Christ, God’s power unto salvation (Rom. 1:16).
“But God, who is rich in mercy…” (Eph. 2:4)
“By grace you have been saved…” (Eph. 2:8)
Then I have to admit the following:
I am an atheist. I do not believe in God or Jesus. So according to you, the reason for this is because of my ...... pride?
Are you serious? Can you define "pride" and put it into the context of this discussion?
Furthermore: Are you the kind of christian that thinks "hell" is just death into nothing (the empty void), or do you think "hell" is a place for eternal punishment?
Thank you for your preach.
Do you think (your) opinion of justice in christianity regarding God, is something we humans should adopt here on earth?
Like, let's say two persons who have killed another human being are brought into court. The judge says:
"OK, you both are sentenced to 20 years of prison. However, since Mr Smith is a chirstian, he will be free as of today. Mr Jones has to face 20 years in prison."
Do you think this kind of judgement is fair and rightous?
B
Blue155
Guest
Spiritual forgiveness doesn’t erase the physical consequences. I can become an alcoholic, come down with cirrhosis of the liver, but then later on become a Christian. Or if I became an alcoholic as a Christian, and repent, I’m forgiven of my sins, but the consequences of my actions on earth remain.
I know it won't be pleasant. Everybody will be weeping and gnashing their teeth in deep regret. Some people don't think it's forever, but I do because the Bible says it's forever. The people who don't think it's forever ignore the verses that say it's forever, but I believe that we shouldn't ignore parts of the Bible and accept that in God, conflicting verses somehow harmonize and that God will explain how they do in His own time.
Bottom line it's just better to get saved, repent, and live for God. No sin is worth hanging on to and ending up in hell where there is no love or hope or fulfillment, only agony and deep regret and who knows what other misery.
Oh! And there are no parties and partying in hell. No being able to call your own shots and rule yourselves. Satan wont ruie there either.
But like I said other people know more about hell and you really should ask them.
B
Blue155
Guest
I ask you the same thing as I asked another one here:
Do you think (your) opinion of justice in christianity regarding God, is something we humans should adopt here on earth?
Like, let's say two persons who have killed another human being are brought into court. The judge says:
"OK, you both are sentenced to 20 years of prison. However, since Mr Smith is a chirstian, he will be free as of today. Mr Jones has to face 20 years in prison."
Do you think this kind of judgement is fair and rightous?
B
Blue155
Guest
spiritual forgiveness ≠ freedom from enduring earthly consequences of prior sins or any sins afterwards.
B
Blue155
Guest
Jeffrey Dahmer stayed in prison because he did kill and eat a lot of victims and he understood that. He didn'see his salvation in Christ as a get-out-of-jail pass. Freedom in Christ is about freedom from being enslaved to sin and no longer having hell as your destiny. From there on it is about living for God instead. Christians in jail know that.
