B
Blue155
Guest
Is there anyone who takes the view of what is called Molinism? If so, please support your position with scripture.
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I'm inclined to believe it as it reconciles God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Is it scriptural? Romans 8:29 hints at it. The key word is "foreknew". I also believe that God is outside of time and knows the thoughts and intentions of man's heart (Hebrews 4:12, see also verse 13).
I have no idea what that means either but based on Gideon’s response looks like another free will discussion.
How exciting!
lol well I can't help but waggle my tail Gods Will is my favourite interestI have no idea what that means either but based on Gideon’s response looks like another free will discussion.
How exciting!
Molinism, named after theologian Luis de Molina, is a theological system reconciling God's sovereignty with human free will, primarily through "middle knowledge" (scientia media). God uses this knowledge—knowing what free creatures would do in any possible circumstance (counterfactuals)—to create the world, allowing humans genuine freedom while ensuring His ultimate purposes are achieved. It serves as a middle ground between Calvinism (divine determination) and Arminianism (human choice emphasized).
Not a completely horrible theology....
But it ignores God's Omniscience. God knows the future just as well as the present and past. And God is never surprised as a result.
ah thanks for that sounds interesting, I'll have a think about it lol, I don't think I'll be able to resist
Mine is the unique blindness spoken about in scriptures. Especially by Jesus. (Veil)
It exists all over in Christian circles in varying degrees and over all sorts of subjects.
It's kinda magical how people cannot see or understand certain concepts.
This OP has a huge issue (just like most) with God's Omniscience and lack of time restrictions.
Which for whatever reason I do not own this particular veil.
This whole God's Sovereignty vx man's free will is spoken of is talked about in John's Gospel with the story of the Man born Blind story. It crushes both Arminian doctrines and Calvinism in one fell swoop. .....
But whatever...
Interesting thought John.
I was just heading out of the coffee shop and when you said this it made me curious and I thought to myself do I want to discuss another pointless debate about free will which has been going on since ancient antiquity?
Nah. Lemme go get another coffee.
Well, I believe God allows humans genuine freedom/MFW while ensuring His ultimate purposes are achieved,
but I would call that view "GW" (Deut. 30:19, Matt. 23:37, Romans 1-11, 1Tim. 2:3-7, John 3:16, etc.).
I am glad Luis de Molina supported GW.
Really in one fell swoop? sounds interesting maybe one day you can explain in detail I would love to see that debate settled once and for all
Oh yes,
Humans have free will. Otherwise love is not love...and no better than a computer declaring its love for you.
Manipulation? God is definitely capable of manipulation.
But....Children are free....heretics are ruled by lusts and fears. Lots of unbelievers running around to use as puppets if need be.
Problem is....
Nobody gets the answer (blindness)
They arent going to either because of their blindness. As the story tells us.
I suppose your right spiritual blindness can only be cured by God but there is in my opinion other factors at play with it that being people refusing to admit they are wrong, people holding to dear life to their personal beliefs and doctrines and also an unwillingness to learn.
Now that's the beginning of a rabbit hole I've been fascinated by for decades.
It was a source of frustration for Jesus and those sharing the Gospel for centuries.
Frankly, the world is easier to explain in terms of divine determinism--until one tries to explain divine love and human moral accountability.
Yep and it consists today as well and not only is it a spiritual matter it is also a matter of the flesh pride ego stubborness ect. And many even blindly follow certain teachers and don't seek or study the truth for themselves but this is a dangerous type of person to deal with because they will never listen to reason for all these reasons and more and you will be in arguments with them over and over again it can be very draining
I don't know why we have to complicate belief in God.... are you a Calvinist, Arminian, ecuwhanian, whack a mole....
I suppose it give some folks something to talk about... and something else to divide over.
10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?