The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
- Thread starter vassal
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*ahem*
the record shows,
- i was posting it.
- you were deriaively laughing at it.
but this is just a peeve of mine, like red words, and capitalized pronouns. do as seems best to you.
really liking how you say this will be your final response to me and then immediately respond to me in a new post 
... with some experience, you stop saying things like that, friend.
at the same time, another thing i have seen in my many years here, is that putting someone on your 'ignore' list is 99.9/100 taking the easy way out of an argument you are unable to win - - willfully turning a blind eye to gaping holes in your own dialogue.
so i appreciate you being an honest enough person not to do that.
... with some experience, you stop saying things like that, friend.
at the same time, another thing i have seen in my many years here, is that putting someone on your 'ignore' list is 99.9/100 taking the easy way out of an argument you are unable to win - - willfully turning a blind eye to gaping holes in your own dialogue.
so i appreciate you being an honest enough person not to do that.
in this thread, several people have already defeated your position elegantly in different ways, with a few simple words.
for posterity, let me add one more elegant rebuttal scripture gives - -
the believer in Christ is called a child of Abraham, not a child of Moses.
Abraham was not given Exodus 20; he was 600 years prior.
when He makes His covenant with the children of Israel ((aka Jacob)), God calls Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. none of these had the Law of Moses, none of these had the sabbath or the feasts or the decalogue, but they were yet righteous.
QED
You STILL don't get it.
You keep saying that the ten commandments are "the covenant". I'm not arguing that point.
Do you understand that much?
Now, do you see what God says He will put on hearts and minds?
The "covenant"? NO!
The LAW!
That means your belief that "the ten commandments" (in isolation) are written on our hearts and minds has no foundation in Scripture. Either God meant the entire law (which is obviously impossible to keep today) or He meant something else.
Now, are you still blind to your error?
Learn the logical fallacies, and stop employing them. Doing so only displays your ignorance.
weekly ritual inactivity is without dispute useful, but not required for a Christian believer to be accounted righteous
we need to be clear, here
@vassal
yes, just as @pinebeach put
this kind of false doctrine is utterly destroyed by the scripture Paul wrote, so its advocates have no choice but to reject Paul, and they typically are oblivious to the fact that rejecting Paul means rejecting also all of Luke, Acts, John and Peter, because all of them affirm Paul, and per Luke and Peter, Christ God Himself affirms Paul.
they have to discard 85% of the NT to keep the doctrines they have been taught.
we ought to remember the 'they have been taught' part - - these people are victims.
in fact 100% of the NT they have to reject, because what's left? Matthew and Mark - - who affirm Peter and John, who affirm Paul
OK @vassal
i admit you get Jude and James.
intellectually you must reject all of the rest of the NT in order to reject Paul.
so, you get zero words of Jesus Christ, because everyone who recorded His words affirmed Paul is scripture.
now defend your doctrine that believers are under the law from a 2 tiny book NT...!?
clearly not possible.
Please learn from this
The new covenant started when Jesus shed his blood. The day of Pentecost I think was the start but at the cross is when the blood was shed.
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
According to prophecy, the Messiah was to confirm the covenant with many for one week, which represents seven years; He began His public ministry at the start of this period and was cut off in the middle of it to cause typical sacrifices to cease.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured on the desolate.
In the middle of the last week of the 70 weeks of the Dan 9 prophesy, Jesus died and the sacrifices and oblations ceased.
Jesus death caused the sacrifices to end.
The new covenant was being brought in.
At the end of the 70 weeks the gosple started going to the Gentiles..
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,..
Their time ran out and the new covenant had started.
The new covenant was ratified and made valid by the shedding of Christ’s blood at His crucifixion Hebrews 9:15-17
Any provisions or any changes to the covenant that originated after the cross is considered "too late" to be part of the covenant, as a covenant cannot be added to once it has been confirmed.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Confirmed at the cross by the blood of Jesus no changes could be made after this.
Terms....
The new covenant is not an abolition of God's standards but a more effective way of fulfilling them through grace. The fundamental promise is that God puts His laws into the minds of believers and writes them upon their hearts
The laws written in the heart are the same ten commandments that formed the basis of the first covenant, as these principles of righteousness are as immutable as God's throne. Jesus magnified this law during His earthly ministry, teaching its eternal perpetuity
Receiving the benefits of the covenant requires repentance and faith in the blood of Christ
This faith does not make the law void but rather establishes our obligation to keep it. Romans 3:31
The wages of sin is death. we all deserve death because we have all sinned.
But keeping the law will not change the past or make our past sins less deadly.
The 10 commandments have no power to save us from the wages of sin.
They can help us to know what sin is so we can choose not to sin but we have all sinned...
Jesus is salvation from sin and death.
But the 10 commandments help us to understand what sin is and if we are repentant of sin we will hate sin.
The gift of God is eternal life.. but we don't continue to sin because we hate sin, and love righteousness. We love God. The helps us to know what is holy just and good, and what is sinful and evil.
Ceasing from works of the flesh...
So do we cease from doing works of the Spirit? Can I still do good works?
Can I follow the Holy Spirit and do His calling?
Sanctification is the imparted righteousness of Christ...
We are not talking about Justification...
Imputed righteousness is the legal standing of being declared perfect through faith in Christ's sacrifice, while imparted righteousness (sanctification) is the transformative work of God's Spirit within the soul that enables a life of holy living.
A life of holy living... is doing His will
Holy living is keeping His commandments.
Are you saying that the 4th commandment is fulfilled by knowing and trusting that God is sanctifying us and ceasing from holy living.
Sanctifying us = holy living not ceasing from holy living.
Keeping the law to be saved is not of faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Do you make void the law by faith?
Can I keep the law by faith? Through grace by the power of God in me?
Can I obey by faith?
You can only truly obey the law of God through the exercise of living faith in Jesus Christ
While the natural heart is at enmity with God and cannot be subject to His law on its own, genuine faith converts the soul and brings the life into harmony with the divine precepts Romans 8:4-10
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
We can not do anything good in the flesh but by faith in the Almighty God we are able to obey.
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Faith does not make the law void it makes it possible to obey. Faith in the power of Jesus.
Phi 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Please explain how people under the old covenant were saved.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Commandments contained in ordinances
Please explain how the commandments contained in ordinances are abolished but the law of liberty in James 2 are going to judge us.
Jas 2:11-12
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
The law of liberty is the 10 commandments and are not abolished.
The ordinances are abolished.
Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Please look into the commanents contained in ordinances.
So does this mean we do not need to follow any of the commandments?
I agree that Jesus's righteousness becomes ours by faith.
But because He perfectly obeyed the law does that mean we can ignore the law?
Can we murder because Jesus perfectly obeyed that commandment?
Are the 10 commandments void because Jesus kept them perfectly?
COMMENT:
Everyone keeps getting tied in knots over words, nice little phrases,
Logically, 2 + 2 = 4 --- the way a person show love, demonstrates love -- toward another --- is by not raping his daughters or wife, by not stealing his stuff, by not murdering his family --- the last 6 are telling us how to love our neighbor and the first four tell us how to show love toward God.
FACT: if the entire world were to live by the last 6 Commandments -- there would be world peace!!
and all I am seeing on this site is how unnecessary the 10 Commandments are, they are a burden -- Really?????
Do any understand where that thought, that "belief" comes from --- the one that resisted God --Satan.
who are you following?? the Lawful ONE or the Unlawful one?
You can say this and think your clear but the word states that both are important.weekly ritual inactivity is without dispute useful, but not required for a Christian believer to be accounted righteous
we need to be clear, here
The word says...
Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbath) to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
The word in verse 9 is sabbath but the word for rest in most of the other places is resting in Christ.
Study it if you want.
Verse 10 in context is .... he that is entered into his rest (God's rest, the rest that comes from trusting Jesus, gospel)
he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
He ALSO Ceased from his own works = which Works?, = as God did from His. Which works did God rest from? = it was not spiritual rest or rest in the Gospel, God does not need to rest in the gospel truth. A few verses before ... Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
The works that God rested from was the works of creation. The physical work.
It is clear that those that enter into Jesus's spiritual rest ALSO CEASE from their physical works.. like God did on the first sabbath at creation.
We rest in Jesus, the gospel, trusting in Jesus power to save, faith in Jesus.
And we also rest like God did at creation.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos) to the people of God.