144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church

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ewq1938 said:
It doesn't ever say it isn't, and everything it does ay on the topic is that it was through lineage. Paul speaks of gentiles being grafted to Israel, but never states the grafting is to specific tribes.
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Everything in the law might, but not everything written does because the prophets wrote that converts would be considered part of the tribe among which they dwelt. Tribal membership initially was determined by natural heredity, but the prophets make clear that one day (it shall come to pass) it would go beyond that into including gentile converts.

Only those of the tribes of Israel could receive an inheritance in the land, because the land was alloted according to tribe; and Ezekiel 47:22-23 makes clear that converts would receive an inheritance in the land, so simple logic proves they will be members of the tribes among whom they dwell.

This passage makes clear that the land inheritance via tribal membership would be to both converts and their children. This is obviously referring to the new covenant when all natural barriers and distinctions would be removed and all in Christ are treated equally. IMO tribal membership in the new covenant has nothing to do with land inheritance and everything to do with spiritual inheritance. But the prophets didn't understand such concepts and related everything they saw in visions and the spirit to the land of Israel. Thus the language

And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 47:22-23​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Everything in the law might, but not everything written does because the prophets wrote that converts would be considered part of the tribe among which they dwelt.
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Only an association but never are they actually a part of the tribe, plus they are always still called strangers never anything like "member of Judah" etc. At best they were STRANGERS that took part in inheritance etc, which is a great thing of the past.

Eze 47:22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

Still a clear distinction between the strangers and "you" which were Israelites.

Eze 47:22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

They were to be considered as part of the COUNTRY not tribe. Again, STRANGER contrasted by those called ISRAEL.

Eze 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Clearly the STRANGERS were not treated as full equals. They remain STRANGERS that dwell among the children of Israel, not being Israel or of the tribes themselves but remaining STRANGERS.
 
ewq1938 said:
Only an association but never are they actually a part of the tribe, plus they are always still called strangers never anything like "member of Judah" etc. At best they were STRANGERS that took part in inheritance etc, which is a great thing of the past.
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You're just pulling this out of thin air. Life doesn't work like that. But even if they were ethno-supremacists and always stigmatized converts, God hated it.
 
ewq1938 said:
Eze 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Clearly the STRANGERS were not treated as full equals. They remain STRANGERS that dwell among the children of Israel, not being Israel or of the tribes themselves but remaining STRANGERS.
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You're being very careless in your exegesis. It says uncircumcised strangers. Converts were circumcised, so this passage does not apply to them, and consequently your conclusion is not true.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Converts were circumcised,
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You'd have to prove that plus you are dodging the fact that the strangers are always called strangers, and never called Israel like the tribes of Israel were showing the strangers were always considered separate no matter if they dwelled with Israel.
 
ewq1938 said:
You'd have to prove that plus you are dodging the fact that the strangers are always called strangers, and never called Israel like the tribes of Israel were showing the strangers were always considered separate no matter if they dwelled with Israel.
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No one outside of Israel could receive an inheritance of land. No one could be a part of Israel without being circumcised. If a person was circumcised and joined Israel he was no longer a stranger, but a citizen of Israel.

So obviously Ezekiel is talking about the new covenant, when all distinctions would disappear, using language and conepts that he was familiar with.

I seriously doubt that Ruth and Rahab were called strangers after they joined Israel. In fact, it's a ridiculous idea.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
No one outside of Israel could receive an inheritance of land.
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False. Converts/strangers could as we have already seen. They are always still called strangers though.

If a person was circumcised
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When will you show scripture of that happening to any strangers?



and joined Israel he was no longer a stranger, but a citizen of Israel.
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False as they are always called stranger as opposed to a person of Israel.
 
ewq1938 said:
And he did not say strangers stop being strangers.
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Ezekiel was obviously prophesying of new covenant realities, in which such distinctions don't exist. He saw a vision, but didn't understand those realities, so he used the language and terms he was familiar with
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Ezekiel was obviously prophesying of new covenant realities, in which such distinctions don't exist. He saw a vision, but didn't understand those realities, so he used the language and terms he was familiar with
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That does not change that strangers are always still called strangers while Israel is called Israel. Point being strangers did not become Israel or called that name.

Eze 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
 
ewq1938 said:
That does not change that strangers are always still called strangers while Israel is called Israel. Point being strangers did not become Israel or called that name.

Eze 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
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If that's what you insist on believing then reap that measure of your faith.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Rev 7 does not list the 12 tribes of natural Israel. Some are, some aren't and some are missing
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Christians identifying as 'Gentiles', agree that there should be segregation between themselves and the Jews, so much that they are also willing to promote a contradiction between the OT and NT Bible lists of names for the Jewish tribes.

There are a number of Bible haters that would also agree with them, that they are the same 12 tribes listed, and so the Bible does in fact contradict itself, and so is not the perfect word of God...

People who cling to their own preferred personal prophecies and doctrines, don't care what damage they would do to the words of God:

Isa 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
An indication that the 12 tribes mentioned in Rev 7 are not natural seed is this prophecy predicting that God will make gentiles members of the tribe of Levi

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:20-21​
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The prophecy is of the scattered Israelite Jews being escorted by the nations back to Jerusalem. Not the scattered Israelite Jews escorting nations to Jerusalem

They (the nations) shall bring your brethren (the Israelite Jews). Not, they (the Israelite Jews) shall bring your brethren (the nations).

Only naturally born Israelites can be naturally born Israelites. The natural born of one nation cannot become the natural born of another nation. Those of another nation can become naturalized citizens, with equality under law, but not naturally born citizens of another nation:

Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Christ's 'immigration' gospel for all nations into His holy national Israel, is only by birth of the Spirit, not by changing of the flesh...

While God's covenant for His Israel is open to all nations by repentance through faith in His Son, His land and multitude promise remains only to Abraham and his natural seed...

Gen 17:8
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

No other nations on earth are brought to Jerusalem to inherit the land.
 
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