Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

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Just because many modern scholars or historians label a point in the New Testament as a “contradiction” doesn’t mean it truly is one. It may simply reflect incomplete knowledge, assumptions about Roman or Jewish practices, or a lack of attention to cultural context. In fact, we have seen this happen in science: for a long time, the prevailing view was that the universe had no beginning. Then evidence accumulated leading to the recognition of it having a beginning.

Similarly, alleged historical discrepancies in Scripture are reconciled as we better understand the historical, cultural, and legal realities of first-century Judaism, Roman governance, or the practices of early Christians.

Absence of current consensus is not proof of inaccuracy. History, like a legal case, must be judged on the totality of the evidence, not on selected points that seem confusing at first glance.

The absence OR PRESENCE of current consensus is not proof of historical accuracy. Correct details are also not proof, unless some recognized fictional novels are historically accurate because they properly describe known historical figures and locations.

When historic records contradict about a given point, how do you determine which is accurate? Personally, I look for other evidence, such as archeology, numismatics, even logical reasons as to why the records differ. Group "A" does not want to look like the bad guys, do other historical factors indicate that while they were most likely to preserve the accounts of the incident, does the "official" record accord with their actions in other cases?

I noted that Tiberius went back and forth in the records as to whether he was fit to rule or not. If you take the time to look at the historic events, he was ruling Rome from Rome and was great. He went into semi-retirement away from Rome and let Sejanus run the day-to-day things, even though Tiberius had easy, reliable access to what was going on, and he was terrible, never should have been emperor. Sejanus latched onto those comments and was apparently plotting a coup when Tiberius came out of semi-retirement and deposed Sejanus and thus returned to greatness. Crassus, as I noted earlier, was a great military leader after he saved Sulla in one battle and served well in some other conflicts, and was praised for his financial knowledge as well, when it benefited Rome. Then he engaged in a military action, following what were at the time standard Roman military tactics but was defeated by an enemy who tried a new tactic designed to give them a chance against known Roman tactics. According to a surviving inferior officer, subsequently promoted, Crassus displayed horrible judgement, attempted to surrender and was killed by having molten gold poured down his throat. Independent surviving accounts imply that it was a very close battle and immediately following this incident Roman tactics changed. Now was Crassus competent, incompetent or what? The official record is incompetent, the unofficial record differs, but by all means, the official record must be true, the same standard applied to traditional understandings of the NT, even when prominent scholars say that a different, very logical and more coherent understanding has arisen.

Remember, in the 1890's the consensus among respected physicists was that the field of physics was about to be closed, with all that could be learned having been learned. There were just two, very small, things to be finished. Today those two things are called "Relativity" and "Quantum Physics" and have given birth to other fields related to physics and nowhere near understood. But today traditional knowledge of the New Testament is almost complete, with just a few issues remaining. Who wrote Ephesians, Paul or someone else; what was the issue about women's hair in Corinthians; what exactly did Paul mean to say about scripture (literally writings) in 2 Timothy 3:16; why is John so much different that the Synoptics; what "classic" works or styles did the four gospels and Acts follow so that they would be accepted as decent literature. And on that final point, hint, hint, look at Greco-Roman biography style, Greco-Roman adventure-romance style, and look for hints of Euripides, Plato, Augustus, Virgil and Phrygian legend among others, unless what look like parallels to all those are just random chances in contrast to what most biblical scholars think about many of the possible connections.
 
I don’t like the lyrics for the song,

The phrase “God’s Not Dead” sounds negative to me because it is framed as a correction to a claim God was never subject to. God was never dead. Scripture does not argue God back into existence or respond to atheistic accusations. It simply declares, “In the beginning God,” and calls Him “the living God” and “I AM.”

Framing God as “not dead” centers the discussion on human disbelief, whereas Scripture centers the discussion on God’s eternal reality. God does not need to be defended from death. He is, always has been, and always will be the eternal, loving, and the living God.

The story and acting was okay. It was not one that I could relate to as much.

Time Changer, Polycarp, and Play the Flute are my top tier Christian films.
If you have not seen these films, make time to see them right away.
The best acting or performances in a Christian film is the Western Christian movie called, the Redemption of Henry Myers.
I am not even much of a Western fan and this was really awesome as a film. Powerful story that promotes Jesus Christ.
Kevin Sorbo’s best Christian film was “What If.”
The film called, the War Within is a powerful film (although at first the trailers are a little off putting because the characters look a little strange). While the different aspects of a person’s mind is fictional, it really is a captivating Christian film.
Strong Fathers and Strong Daughters is probably one the best Christian films that has a good message and real comedy. I never laughed so hard in a Christian film before.

….

Well, please realize that "God is dead" is EXACTLY the claim atheists make,
which is why that song and movie are so impressive for meeting it head-on and should be added to your list.

Some Scripture DOES argue in favor of God's existence (Rom. 1:20, Acts 17:22-31, etc.),
and the over-arching theme of GW is repentance from disbelief (Matt. 4:17, 23:37, John 8:42-44, etc.).

This is why the story/plot was so great: It began with disbelief due to emotional illogic
and presented BOTH logical (academic) AND emotional (love) reasons to convert to Christian faith,
and thus the movie warrants inclusion in the top ten of your list.

And it is high time you recognize the need to relate to the thread of Islam as well as atheism,
which the movie included as a very powerful subplot, making it twice as worthy for including.

I am not familiar with the other movies on the list, but I will try to obtain the top ten this year--
minus God's Not Dead that I trust you will add but I can subtract--
because I already ordered multiple DVDs as Christmas gifts the year it came out. :LOL:

TTYL
 
Thank you for your profound answer to my request !
I read it with great interest, but however; I see no reason to change my view of life because of it.
Neverhteless; thank you for your interest into these matters.

I can easily give you three or four widely accepted "proofs" for God, but unfortunately three merely require a deistic deity and the fourth assumes as an a priori that God is a positive entity. Thus, I do not see a good existing argument for the Christian god. Resurrection was a relatively common event in the ancient world also, the claims of a physical resurrection thus stood out but those claim also rest on the testimony of people who cannot be questioned anymore, and the written records have clearly been handled by any number of unknown people who might have changed the accounts for one reason or another. Most in here do not like that I acknowledge that, but it is true.

Now I am working on a book to address your questions, but it is still in process. I am working on a proof of a theistic God that draws on both experimental science and consistent personal experiences from people of different times, cultures and ages at the time of the recorded experience, many with independent support for the claimed experiences. When I get that done to my satisfaction and the satisfaction of my support group, I can rapidly finish up with implications for today and submit it to the publisher who is eager to see my finished work (two well-known Christian publishers declined my work as too far from tradition, but also stated that it needed published based on an outline and partial draft and both referred me to the same publisher who is currently awaiting a final copy).
 
Yeah, I am strongly against Calvinism or any belief that paints God in an immoral way.
But thank you for your kind words. Happy New Years and great blessings to you and your family, in Jesus’ name.

....

Do you agree that all of Calvin's teachings should not be painted with the heretical brush of the TULIP heresy?

Ditto regarding painting all of Pentecostalism with the problematic brush of babbling?

Not sure what genre the sabbatarians belong to--Seventh Day Adventists?

Or whether those who believe water baptism is sacramental are Roman Catholics,
but I guess the pejorative popes are wanna be RCs. Have you encountered them on CC yet?

LIC, GWH
 
I can easily give you three or four widely accepted "proofs" for God, but unfortunately three merely require a deistic deity and the fourth assumes as an a priori that God is a positive entity. Thus, I do not see a good existing argument for the Christian god. Resurrection was a relatively common event in the ancient world also, the claims of a physical resurrection thus stood out but those claim also rest on the testimony of people who cannot be questioned anymore, and the written records have clearly been handled by any number of unknown people who might have changed the accounts for one reason or another. Most in here do not like that I acknowledge that, but it is true.

Now I am working on a book to address your questions, but it is still in process. I am working on a proof of a theistic God that draws on both experimental science and consistent personal experiences from people of different times, cultures and ages at the time of the recorded experience, many with independent support for the claimed experiences. When I get that done to my satisfaction and the satisfaction of my support group, I can rapidly finish up with implications for today and submit it to the publisher who is eager to see my finished work (two well-known Christian publishers declined my work as too far from tradition, but also stated that it needed published based on an outline and partial draft and both referred me to the same publisher who is currently awaiting a final copy).

In writing your book, feel free to make use of Lesson 1 in what I have published for use as a resource,
which I have posted in this thread.
 
Well, please realize that "God is dead" is EXACTLY the claim atheists make,

I see no reason to indulge them in such false thinking.
If some group claimed there were ninja cyborg cats that ride unicorns, I would not indulge the existence of their fantasy by trying to counter such nonsense. Does it mean I have to join a parade movement about it to say that these creatures do not exist? Surely not. What if some oddball group claimed "gravity is gone"? Should one start a counter movement that says, "gravity is not gone," and make a song about it? Surely not. It would just be very strange and weird to do that.

You said:
which is why that song and movie are so impressive for meeting it head-on and should be added to your list.

Some Scripture DOES argue in favor of God's existence (Rom. 1:20, Acts 17:22-31, etc.),
and the over-arching theme of GW is repentance from disbelief (Matt. 4:17, 23:37, John 8:42-44, etc.).

This is why the story/plot was so great: It began with disbelief due to emotional illogic
and presented BOTH logical (academic) AND emotional (love) reasons to convert to Christian faith,
and thus the movie warrants inclusion in the top ten of your list.

I just didn't resonate with the film. There were several things I did not like about it.
Art is subjective. What one person likes, another does not, for their own reasons.
Play the Flute is a film about a youth pastor who tries to teach children about the Word of God.
But the students are not interested in God's Word. So the youth pastor has to be inventive.
I prefer that kind of dynamic more because it reminds me of my youth, plus the main actor is really talented.
The idea of an atheist teacher persecuting a Christian is just is not appealing storyline to me.
I like more fresh and original stories, or something that really stands-out and surprises me.
But that is simply my own taste.

You said:
And it is high time you recognize the need to relate to the thread of Islam as well as atheism,
which the movie included as a very powerful subplot, making it twice as worthy for including.

God has not called me down the path yet to preach against such darkness.
I am very busy, with other topics and projects for now.

You said:
I am not familiar with the other movies on the list, but I will try to obtain the top ten this year--
minus God's Not Dead that I trust you will add but I can subtract--
because I already ordered multiple DVDs as Christmas gifts the year it came out. :LOL:

TTYL

I have recommended and gave out Time Changer and Polycarp to many.
I have not run into anyone who said they did not like these movies.
Hopefully you will enjoy them as much as I.

May the Lord Jesus bless you, greatly.




....
 
Do you agree that all of Calvin's teachings should not be painted with the heretical brush of the TULIP heresy?

While I have argued against Calvinists many times on forums and many of those discussions turned out to be very unpleasant, I am friendly with three or so Calvinists when discussing the Bible issue (like the KJV vs. the Modern Bibles debate). Do I see Calvinism as heretical? Well, it is an attack upon God’s good character. Some (and not all) do justify sin with that kind of belief, too. I believe those believers who justify sin are not going to be saved.

You said:
Ditto regarding painting all of Pentecostalism with the problematic brush of babbling?

Is there any Pentecostal who does not believe in speaking in tongues without an interpreter, which violates 1 Corinthians 14?

You said:
Not sure what genre the sabbatarians belong to--Seventh Day Adventists?

Paul said he was afraid for the Galatians because they kept days, months, and years.
But one of the major problems with this movement is that it follows Ellen G. White.
It definitely is a cult.

You said:
Or whether those who believe water baptism is sacramental are Roman Catholics,
but I guess the pejorative popes are wanna be RCs. Have you encountered them on CC yet?

LIC, GWH

I don't believe water baptism saves, but a believer should desire to want to partake of water baptism because it is an answer to having already a clean conscious before God in their being initially saved by God's grace through faith.



....
 
I see no reason to indulge them in such false thinking.
If some group claimed there were ninja cyborg cats that ride unicorns, I would not indulge the existence of their fantasy by trying to counter such nonsense. Does it mean I have to join a parade movement about it to say that these creatures do not exist? Surely not. What if some oddball group claimed "gravity is gone"? Should one start a counter movement that says, "gravity is not gone," and make a song about it? Surely not. It would just be very strange and weird to do that.

I just didn't resonate with the film. There were several things I did not like about it.
Art is subjective. What one person likes, another does not, for their own reasons.
Play the Flute is a film about a youth pastor who tries to teach children about the Word of God.
But the students are not interested in God's Word. So the youth pastor has to be inventive.
I prefer that kind of dynamic more because it reminds me of my youth, plus the main actor is really talented.
The idea of an atheist teacher persecuting a Christian is just is not appealing storyline to me.
I like more fresh and original stories, or something that really stands-out and surprises me.
But that is simply my own taste.

God has not called me down the path yet to preach against such darkness.
I am very busy, with other topics and projects for now.

I have recommended and gave out Time Changer and Polycarp to many.
I have not run into anyone who said they did not like these movies.
Hopefully you will enjoy them as much as I.

May the Lord Jesus bless you, greatly.

....

Well, I see no reason to think a movie titled "God's NOT Dead" does anything other than DIvulge atheist thinking,
so hopefully you will be blessed by watching it with this understanding in mind in the new year, realizing that the
film resonated with millions of Christians who liked it, perhaps more so than others you esteem more highly.

Yes, it resonates with me because of the following experiences in my youth:

I grew up with Christian parents and attended church most every Sunday, but when I reached college age I encountered atheism and wondered why the daughter of a missionary became an atheist.

This prompted me to request a modern English Bible for Christmas at the time the NEB was newly published, which I read completely through in order to find answers to atheists' criticisms, because the pastor's weekly sermons about how to be saved had not equipped me for such apologetics.

As I learned biblical teachings beyond the Gospel, I felt led to become a minister and perhaps a pastor so that I could share such truth with Christians who might witness to atheist friends or at least be edified and not deceived by their argumenta.

While attending seminary I heard a radio debate between an evangelist named Bob Harrington and the atheist Madylin O'Hare, which I had to admit she won on substance.

When I graduated and became a Minister of Youth and Education, I read the TEV/Good News Bible as I conducted teacher training until I received the NIV for my ordination, which I then read through while making my own margin notes connecting dots.

When I became a military chaplain, there was an AKO online forum in which atheists debated Christians, and I also spoke at a meeting of the Atheists of Austin. While deployed in Bosnia and later in Iraq I preached chapel sermons comparing Islam as well as atheism to Christianity.

I guess you get the idea where I am coming from...
 
While I have argued against Calvinists many times on forums and many of those discussions turned out to be very unpleasant, I am friendly with three or so Calvinists when discussing the Bible issue (like the KJV vs. the Modern Bibles debate). Do I see Calvinism as heretical? Well, it is an attack upon God’s good character. Some (and not all) do justify sin with that kind of belief, too. I believe those believers who justify sin are not going to be saved.

Is there any Pentecostal who does not believe in speaking in tongues without an interpreter, which violates 1 Corinthians 14?

Paul said he was afraid for the Galatians because they kept days, months, and years.
But one of the major problems with this movement is that it follows Ellen G. White.
It definitely is a cult.

I don't believe water baptism saves, but a believer should desire to want to partake of water baptism because it is an answer to having already a clean conscious before God in their being initially saved by God's grace through faith.

....

Well, I think/hope most Calvinists are not dogmatic tulipists, who insult God's HS by accusing Him of hating most humans,
because such belief is heretical/cultic.

For a similar reason, I hope most Pentecostals do not believe glossolalia rather than love is the sign of Spirit baptism and filling.

Similarly, I hope most members of the Church of Christ and Roman Catholic Church do not think theirs is the only true
denomination of Christianity.

I agree with your opinion of Sabbatarians.

Regarding viewing WB as a sacrament, I agree with the Baptist understanding of it as symbolic.
However, my memory is that when I was baptized my church said it symbolized Christ's death and resurrection,
but not Spirit baptism--which it also must, if there is only one baptism into the body of Christ (Eph. 4:4-6, 1Cor. 12:13).
 
Well, I see no reason to think a movie titled "God's NOT Dead" does anything other than DIvulge atheist thinking,
so hopefully you will be blessed by watching it with this understanding in mind in the new year, realizing that the
film resonated with millions of Christians who liked it, perhaps more so than others you esteem more highly.

Yes, it resonates with me because of the following experiences in my youth:

I grew up with Christian parents and attended church most every Sunday, but when I reached college age I encountered atheism and wondered why the daughter of a missionary became an atheist.

This prompted me to request a modern English Bible for Christmas at the time the NEB was newly published, which I read completely through in order to find answers to atheists' criticisms, because the pastor's weekly sermons about how to be saved had not equipped me for such apologetics.

As I learned biblical teachings beyond the Gospel, I felt led to become a minister and perhaps a pastor so that I could share such truth with Christians who might witness to atheist friends or at least be edified and not deceived by their argumenta.

While attending seminary I heard a radio debate between an evangelist named Bob Harrington and the atheist Madylin O'Hare, which I had to admit she won on substance.

When I graduated and became a Minister of Youth and Education, I read the TEV/Good News Bible as I conducted teacher training until I received the NIV for my ordination, which I then read through while making my own margin notes connecting dots.

When I became a military chaplain, there was an AKO online forum in which atheists debated Christians, and I also spoke at a meeting of the Atheists of Austin. While deployed in Bosnia and later in Iraq I preached chapel sermons comparing Islam as well as atheism to Christianity.

I guess you get the idea where I am coming from...

I am glad the film resonates with you and your life, brother. Each of us are unique individuals though. I was not a fan of the film when it first came out and I think I tried to give it a second chance and it was really unwatchable for me. I don’t see any storyline where an atheist can being a formidable villain in his pushing of his atheism because I see atheism as absolutely dumb and illogical. The teacher might as well have been a flat Earther pushing his flat Earth nonsense. That’s just kind of how I see it. When I believed atheism, there was no internet to research anything and I was a young dumb kid who did not learn to mature in my thinking yet and to critically think and examine things yet. In short, I was not a good detective and was focused on other things in life that did not really matter as a kid (like many kids do). Children sometimes need to make mistakes in order to learn. We each have different experiences in life and so the kind of films we see resonate with us in different ways. So no, I am not remotely interested in trying to give it a third try or anything. It was simply not my cup of tea. I do realize it does appeal to a lot of believers but it simply is not a film for me. I don’t get anything out of it. Sorry, that is just the uniqueness of me. If it blesses you by all means, may it continue to edify your life in Christ and desire to grow more in His Word.

As for Modern Translations like the NIV, TEV, etc. I find these translations as corrupt in doctrine. I list 77 changed doctrines in Modern Bibles in my free PDFs at my site: www.affectionsabove.com.



……
 
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I am glad the film resonates with you and your life, brother. Each of us are unique individuals though. I was not a fan of the film when it first came out and I think I tried to give it a second chance and it was really unwatchable for me. I don’t see any storyline where an atheist can being a formidable villain in his pushing of his atheism because I see atheism as absolutely dumb and illogical. The teacher might as well have been a flat Earther pushing his flat Earth nonsense. That’s just kind of how I see it. When I believed atheism, there was no internet to research anything and I was a young dumb kid who did not learn to mature in my thinking yet and to critically think and examine things yet. In short, I was not a good detective and was focused on other things in life that did not really matter as a kid (like many kids do). Children sometimes need to make mistakes in order to learn. We each have different experiences in life and so the kind of films we see resonate with us in different ways. So no, I am not remotely interested in trying to give it a third try or anything. It was simply not my cup of tea. I do realize it does appeal to a lot of believers but it simply is not a film for me. I don’t get anything out of it. Sorry, that is just the uniqueness of me. If it blesses you by all means, may it continue to edify your life in Christ and desire to grow more in His Word.

As for Modern Translations like the NIV, TEV, etc. I find these translations as corrupt in doctrine. I list 77 changed doctrines in Modern Bibles in my free PDFs at my site: www.affectionsabove.com.

……

I am surprised that the movie would not resonate with you as a former atheist, because I would think that as an atheist kid you would have seen Christianity as dumb/illogical, and so you would have loved the fact that the atheist professor's preaching was exposed as nonsense.

I understand that you are sharing how you see it, and I am trying to help you appreciate the movie with a new, enlightened understanding for your own enjoyment. IOW, WWJD or how would Christ rate the movie?

I hope that I appreciate the movies you esteem.
Based on our discussion, which one would you recommend I obtain and view first?

As I examine your site, I see no changed doctrines in the NIV:

Col. 3:2, "Set your hearts on things above, not on earthly things."
Matt. 22:39, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Are you sure that you are not being too anal about the supposed changes?
 
Well, I think/hope most Calvinists are not dogmatic tulipists, who insult God's HS by accusing Him of hating most humans,
because such belief is heretical/cultic.

I am not God to know the hearts of all of them, but I do see many are hateful and see God as forcing others to believe. These types who are hateful and push how God elects only a few against their will and leaves the rest to burn beyond any choice. This is evil and heretical. So yes. God is good and He is not willing that any should perish.

You said:
For a similar reason, I hope most Pentecostals do not believe glossolalia rather than love is the sign of Spirit baptism and filling.

I agree.

You said:
Similarly, I hope most members of the Church of Christ and Roman Catholic Church do not think theirs is the only true denomination of Christianity.

I don’t see Catholics as saved because they bow to statues pray to Mary and other saints, etc. I disagree with the church of Christ because they replace being saved by the gospel with water baptism being mixed into it. Water baptism does not save spiritually. Peter says it does not save for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (sin). Meaning it is not for spiritual salvation.

You said:
Regarding viewing WB as a sacrament, I agree with the Baptist understanding of it as symbolic.
However, my memory is that when I was baptized my church said it symbolized Christ's death and resurrection,
but not Spirit baptism--which it also must, if there is only one baptism into the body of Christ (Eph. 4:4-6, 1Cor. 12:13).

I believe in both the baptism into the Spirit and water baptism.

 
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If I were a skeptic or an atheist, even if I outright denied the existence of God, I would still be surrounded by unanswered questions about reality itself—questions that do not disappear simply because God is removed from the explanation.

I would ask why the world exists at this very moment in time. Not why it exists in the past, and not why it might exist later, but why anything exists now. What is sustaining the universe from moment to moment? What keeps natural laws in operation instead of collapsing into nothingness? Where did those laws come from, and why do they hold universally?

I would wonder why time exists at all. Why is there a “now” instead of nothing? Why does reality move forward? And what is the point of it all? Is the universe nothing more than a cosmic graveyard for humanity, repeating cycles of birth and death with no ultimate purpose?

I would ask what caused the Big Bang. What set the initial mass in motion? What caused it to obey laws instead of chaos? Why did instead result in an extremely low level of entropy instead of a state of maximum entropy? What accounts for the fine-tuning of the universe, where even slight deviations would make life impossible?

I would need to name a single thing that began to exist and continues to exist without depending on anything else for its existence. Not hypothetically, but actually. If everything is contingent, then the entire system collapses unless something non-contingent exists.

I would ask where consciousness comes from. If matter is all there is, then how do I think about things that are not material? How do I reason, evaluate truth, contemplate purpose, or question my own existence? If I am merely an accident of mindless matter, how can I comprehend another accident of mindless matter? Why would chemical reactions care whether something is true or false?

I would wonder about morality. What is my standard? Is it universal or subjective? If it is subjective, then it has no authority. One man’s moral outrage would be no more valid than another man’s cruelty. Moral language would collapse into preference, not obligation. Where do I get an “ought” from?

I would need to explain how the human body came to be without intention—two hundred six bones, over six hundred muscles, roughly thirty-seven trillion cells—organized, coordinated, self-repairing, and purposeful. Not just that it exists, but that it works.

Then I would have to explain Jesus.

I would ask how flawed, imperfect human beings conceived someone like Him. Not merely a teacher or moral man, but a man who lived a sinless life, claimed divine authority, performed miracles, fulfilled ancient prophecies, was born of a virgin, predicted His own death, and convinced His followers that He rose from the dead.

How did imperfect minds invent moral perfection? How did they invent a character whose ethics exposed their own failures? How did ancient Jews—manufacture a divine Messiah that contradicted their expectations yet fulfilled their Scriptures?

How did they write about a life no one had ever seen before, and one no one has ever duplicated since? How did they invent a death that redefined defeat as victory? And why would they die for what they knew was a lie?

If everything written about Jesus were fabricated, where did the material come from? How did mere mortal men construct a figure who bears the attributes of God Himself?

I would wonder why all major world religions mention Jesus as a significant figure, even when they deny His conclusions. Why does history orbit around Him? Why does the calendar bend to His life? Why did His followers suddenly confront governments, religions, and death itself?

And then I would ask whether it is intellectually honest to dismiss all of this without serious investigation.
 
I am surprised that the movie would not resonate with you as a former atheist, because I would think that as an atheist kid you would have seen Christianity as dumb/illogical, and so you would have loved the fact that the atheist professor's preaching was exposed as nonsense.

I understand that you are sharing how you see it, and I am trying to help you appreciate the movie with a new, enlightened understanding for your own enjoyment. IOW, WWJD or how would Christ rate the movie?

I hope that I appreciate the movies you esteem.
Based on our discussion, which one would you recommend I obtain and view first?

As I examine your site, I see no changed doctrines in the NIV:

Col. 3:2, "Set your hearts on things above, not on earthly things."
Matt. 22:39, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Are you sure that you are not being too anal about the supposed changes?

Not sure why you’re trying to argue for me to like a movie I don’t naturally like. Again art is subjective and either speaks to our life experiences or it doesn’t. Would you argue for me to like the same colors you like? Again, movies, or books, etc are subjective. Most popular Christian films are not on my list. I am not a fan of the Passion of the Christ. Actually any movie or series that portrays Jesus is a big turn off for me because I don’t believe we can make images of Christ without our hearts subconsciously idolizing them. We also do not know what Jesus actually looks like, either.


….
 
The absence OR PRESENCE of current consensus is not proof of historical accuracy. Correct details are also not proof, unless some recognized fictional novels are historically accurate because they properly describe known historical figures and locations.

When historic records contradict about a given point, how do you determine which is accurate? Personally, I look for other evidence, such as archeology, numismatics, even logical reasons as to why the records differ. Group "A" does not want to look like the bad guys, do other historical factors indicate that while they were most likely to preserve the accounts of the incident, does the "official" record accord with their actions in other cases?

I noted that Tiberius went back and forth in the records as to whether he was fit to rule or not. If you take the time to look at the historic events, he was ruling Rome from Rome and was great. He went into semi-retirement away from Rome and let Sejanus run the day-to-day things, even though Tiberius had easy, reliable access to what was going on, and he was terrible, never should have been emperor. Sejanus latched onto those comments and was apparently plotting a coup when Tiberius came out of semi-retirement and deposed Sejanus and thus returned to greatness. Crassus, as I noted earlier, was a great military leader after he saved Sulla in one battle and served well in some other conflicts, and was praised for his financial knowledge as well, when it benefited Rome. Then he engaged in a military action, following what were at the time standard Roman military tactics but was defeated by an enemy who tried a new tactic designed to give them a chance against known Roman tactics. According to a surviving inferior officer, subsequently promoted, Crassus displayed horrible judgement, attempted to surrender and was killed by having molten gold poured down his throat. Independent surviving accounts imply that it was a very close battle and immediately following this incident Roman tactics changed. Now was Crassus competent, incompetent or what? The official record is incompetent, the unofficial record differs, but by all means, the official record must be true, the same standard applied to traditional understandings of the NT, even when prominent scholars say that a different, very logical and more coherent understanding has arisen.

Remember, in the 1890's the consensus among respected physicists was that the field of physics was about to be closed, with all that could be learned having been learned. There were just two, very small, things to be finished. Today those two things are called "Relativity" and "Quantum Physics" and have given birth to other fields related to physics and nowhere near understood. But today traditional knowledge of the New Testament is almost complete, with just a few issues remaining. Who wrote Ephesians, Paul or someone else; what was the issue about women's hair in Corinthians; what exactly did Paul mean to say about scripture (literally writings) in 2 Timothy 3:16; why is John so much different that the Synoptics; what "classic" works or styles did the four gospels and Acts follow so that they would be accepted as decent literature. And on that final point, hint, hint, look at Greco-Roman biography style, Greco-Roman adventure-romance style, and look for hints of Euripides, Plato, Augustus, Virgil and Phrygian legend among others, unless what look like parallels to all those are just random chances in contrast to what most biblical scholars think about many of the possible connections.
Not sure what you’re trying to do here. Didn’t bother reading your comment, due to you seemingly have skepticism with God’s word, which strikes me odd if you consider yourself a Christian, which is why I have you on ignore. You ought to know better than that.
 
We are under no obligation to engage with someone who treats God’s word as perpetually suspect, privileges speculative reconstructions over apostolic testimony, and never reaches a point of settled confidence.
 
Accusations, (like many others), appears convincing at first, but they are based (like many others) on an incorrect premise or assumption.
 
All the best arguments in the world may still not be enough.
I believe one definitely needs to pray and fast when witnessing to atheists or agnostics in true love for their souls.

Ephesians 6:12 (KJV):

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”​
In other words, there is a great spiritual battle that takes place and God is the One who can help us to gain victory in this fight.
Certain OT battles were won when the odds were against the Israelites. For example: In the battle with the Midianites, God intentionally reduced Gideon’s army to just 300 men so Israel could not claim the victory as their own (Judges 7:2). The enemy force was enormous, described as being “like grasshoppers for multitude,” with camels without number (Judges 7:12). Despite the overwhelming odds, God gave Israel the victory, making it clear the battle was His alone (Judges 7:19–22).


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Not sure why you’re trying to argue for me to like a movie I don’t naturally like. Again art is subjective and either speaks to our life experiences or it doesn’t. Would you argue for me to like the same colors you like? Again, movies, or books, etc are subjective. Most popular Christian films are not on my list. I am not a fan of the Passion of the Christ. Actually any movie or series that portrays Jesus is a big turn off for me because I don’t believe we can make images of Christ without our hearts subconsciously idolizing them. We also do not know what Jesus actually looks like, either.

….

I agree art is subjective, but I think art appreciation classes can increase one's appreciation,
and I guess you glossed over my explaining that I was not arguing but rather "I am trying to help you
appreciate the movie with a new, enlightened understanding for your own enjoyment.

Actually, you ignored almost the entire post #731. Bad hair day?
Again, I hope that I appreciate the movies you esteem, and
based on our discussion, which one would you recommend I obtain and view first?

Also, when I examined your site front page, I saw no changed doctrines between three KJV verses and the NIV:

Col. 3:2, "Set your hearts on things above, not on earthly things."
Matt. 22:39, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

So I asked whether you are not being too "anal" (picky/splitting hairs/quibbling over words) about the supposed changes?

Over...