666 Mark of the Beast Tech is Ready to be Rolled Out

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Since OSAS is now being debated the issue is what these four letters mean to you.

If you simply understand this to mean that the New Testament teaches us that we can have assurance in our salvation, that is taught.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

We have assurance that Jesus will be the judge of all men.

Colossians 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

We can pray that we would have the full assurance of understanding, but that is a battle. It does not come easily.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

We can have assurance in the apostles that the fellowship of the apostles is the way of life.

But OSAS is usually taught not of having a full assurance of a coming judgement, nor do they really get into all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge in the Bible, and sadly many of the people who teach Calvinism have been exposed by the manner of men that they were, mired in scandal.

No, what they teach is the full assurance of hope. Our blessed hope is in the thought that Jesus has gone and prepared a place for us and will return again to take us so that we will be where He is.

That blessed hope and the full assurance of that hope is what Hebrews 6 is all about.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

You don't get the assurance of hope unless you go on from the basic doctrines. Most people that hold to OSAS treat all works as a "works based salvation". That is childish. Yes, when we first were justified by the blood of Jesus and were baptized we laid a foundation of repentance from dead works and faith towards God. But we must go on to build on that foundation.

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

If you are stuck debating over immersion or sprinkling, or are waiting for someone to lay hands on you, or debates about who goes to hell and who doesn't, those are the principal doctrines that we must go on from.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The writers of the book of Hebrews (most likely Paul and James) were one with the Lord. They desired to go on from these doctrines, but it was based on how the Lord would lead. Personally I can't stand talking about OSAS but it is clear that the Lord still desires to expound on it.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now this is what many who teach OSAS ignore. They will teach that those who fall away, crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame were never saved. But this verse clearly says that they were once enlightened, they did taste the heavenly gift, and they were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, they did taste the good word of God and the powers of the world to come. The writers of Hebrews could not be any clearer, just because twenty years ago I was a burning brother in the Lord does not mean that I can't fall away. This is precisely what they are talking about here, brothers and sisters who at one time were burning for the Lord and have since fallen away, and done so in such a public way as to put the Lord to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This is misunderstood. The analogy here is that we are the land that brings forth the herbs. The herbs refer to our works of righteousness that we do, the fruit of the Spirit. They are an expression of love, joy, and peace. But thorns and briers are an expression of the fallen sinful man. The way you clear the land of briers and thorns is that you burn it. The land is not burned, the thorns and briers are burned. This is what Paul says in 1 Corinthians, if you build with wood, hay and stubble it will go up in flames but you yourself will be saved, but so as through fire. When Jesus died, His blood paid the price for you, that means he purchased you the same way someone would purchase some land. Now if you are full of thorns and briers when the Lord returns that will all be burned. The Lord will still own the land but there is no reward. Everything you did in your life since being saved is a big fat 0. There will be others who have brought forth, some 100 fold. There will be a reward for those ones. This is repeated over and over and over in the gospels. The thing I hate about OSAS is that many who push this doctrine condemn works like a broken record. They are stuck on the fact that you can't be saved by dead works. Yes, we learned that on day one and that is why we were baptized. But the works of the Spirit are what result in a reward. If all you have is thorns and briers then you are near a curse. I would much rather be filled with blessing than with the works of the flesh.

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

This is also what I hate about OSAS. They are focused 100% on being saved from hell, but what about the things that accompany salvation? What about what the Lord told us in the parable of the good Samaritan? You, go and do likewise.

10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

For some people the assurance of being saved from hell is a very small part of their Christian life, mostly it is filled with a labour of love which they show toward the name of Jesus. They have a ministry to the saints and they minister every day, every week. But every now and then you find one of these loonies who has completely forgotten about a work and labor of love. If you mention that they start talking like Rain Man, rocking in their chair and repeating over and over that talking about a ministry is "works based salvation".

11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

If you want the full assurance of hope, you must be diligent unto the end. That is not what most OSAS pastors teach. On the contrary they teach "relax" not "you must be diligent". They say that if you prayed twenty years ago at the beginning of your Christian life you are saved, rather than saying you must be diligent unto the end of your Christian life. For example consider Jamarcus Russell, the 2007 #1 draft pick, a quarterback. There was a lot of promise a lot of talent but no diligence and so no full assurance of hope unto the end. The team that drafted him had a lot of hope, but it was a total bust. Now he had excuses. He had two close relatives die and didn't get a chance to grieve their deaths. Also after hurricane Katrina he was housing a whole lot of refugees who lost their homes. I have seen a whole lot of people who started strong but then the storms of life hit and you discover their faith was built on sand. Compare him to Tom Brady, a guy with no promise and no talent but was extremely diligent unto the end. His first year with the team he was the fourth quarterback on the depth chart. The team had a star name Bledsoe who said he liked Tom, but expected him to be a guy who rode the bench his whole career. That was a fair assessment of how good he was when he came in. The coach said the same thing. His diligence and work ethic were extraordinary, which is why they kept him.

12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

I have never heard one of these OSAS pastors say this. We inherit the promises through faith and patience. That word patience is perfectly illustrated by Brady. He did not get any respect for years and years and years. Today everyone recognizes that he was not slothful, but rather a follower of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
 
Since OSAS is now being debated the issue is what these four letters mean to you.

If you simply understand this to mean that the New Testament teaches us that we can have assurance in our salvation, that is taught.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

We have assurance that Jesus will be the judge of all men.

Colossians 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

We can pray that we would have the full assurance of understanding, but that is a battle. It does not come easily.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

We can have assurance in the apostles that the fellowship of the apostles is the way of life.

But OSAS is usually taught not of having a full assurance of a coming judgement, nor do they really get into all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge in the Bible, and sadly many of the people who teach Calvinism have been exposed by the manner of men that they were, mired in scandal.

No, what they teach is the full assurance of hope. Our blessed hope is in the thought that Jesus has gone and prepared a place for us and will return again to take us so that we will be where He is.

That blessed hope and the full assurance of that hope is what Hebrews 6 is all about.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

You don't get the assurance of hope unless you go on from the basic doctrines. Most people that hold to OSAS treat all works as a "works based salvation". That is childish. Yes, when we first were justified by the blood of Jesus and were baptized we laid a foundation of repentance from dead works and faith towards God. But we must go on to build on that foundation.

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

If you are stuck debating over immersion or sprinkling, or are waiting for someone to lay hands on you, or debates about who goes to hell and who doesn't, those are the principal doctrines that we must go on from.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The writers of the book of Hebrews (most likely Paul and James) were one with the Lord. They desired to go on from these doctrines, but it was based on how the Lord would lead. Personally I can't stand talking about OSAS but it is clear that the Lord still desires to expound on it.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now this is what many who teach OSAS ignore. They will teach that those who fall away, crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame were never saved. But this verse clearly says that they were once enlightened, they did taste the heavenly gift, and they were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, they did taste the good word of God and the powers of the world to come. The writers of Hebrews could not be any clearer, just because twenty years ago I was a burning brother in the Lord does not mean that I can't fall away. This is precisely what they are talking about here, brothers and sisters who at one time were burning for the Lord and have since fallen away, and done so in such a public way as to put the Lord to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This is misunderstood. The analogy here is that we are the land that brings forth the herbs. The herbs refer to our works of righteousness that we do, the fruit of the Spirit. They are an expression of love, joy, and peace. But thorns and briers are an expression of the fallen sinful man. The way you clear the land of briers and thorns is that you burn it. The land is not burned, the thorns and briers are burned. This is what Paul says in 1 Corinthians, if you build with wood, hay and stubble it will go up in flames but you yourself will be saved, but so as through fire. When Jesus died, His blood paid the price for you, that means he purchased you the same way someone would purchase some land. Now if you are full of thorns and briers when the Lord returns that will all be burned. The Lord will still own the land but there is no reward. Everything you did in your life since being saved is a big fat 0. There will be others who have brought forth, some 100 fold. There will be a reward for those ones. This is repeated over and over and over in the gospels. The thing I hate about OSAS is that many who push this doctrine condemn works like a broken record. They are stuck on the fact that you can't be saved by dead works. Yes, we learned that on day one and that is why we were baptized. But the works of the Spirit are what result in a reward. If all you have is thorns and briers then you are near a curse. I would much rather be filled with blessing than with the works of the flesh.

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

This is also what I hate about OSAS. They are focused 100% on being saved from hell, but what about the things that accompany salvation? What about what the Lord told us in the parable of the good Samaritan? You, go and do likewise.

10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

For some people the assurance of being saved from hell is a very small part of their Christian life, mostly it is filled with a labour of love which they show toward the name of Jesus. They have a ministry to the saints and they minister every day, every week. But every now and then you find one of these loonies who has completely forgotten about a work and labor of love. If you mention that they start talking like Rain Man, rocking in their chair and repeating over and over that talking about a ministry is "works based salvation".

11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

If you want the full assurance of hope, you must be diligent unto the end. That is not what most OSAS pastors teach. On the contrary they teach "relax" not "you must be diligent". They say that if you prayed twenty years ago at the beginning of your Christian life you are saved, rather than saying you must be diligent unto the end of your Christian life. For example consider Jamarcus Russell, the 2007 #1 draft pick, a quarterback. There was a lot of promise a lot of talent but no diligence and so no full assurance of hope unto the end. The team that drafted him had a lot of hope, but it was a total bust. Now he had excuses. He had two close relatives die and didn't get a chance to grieve their deaths. Also after hurricane Katrina he was housing a whole lot of refugees who lost their homes. I have seen a whole lot of people who started strong but then the storms of life hit and you discover their faith was built on sand. Compare him to Tom Brady, a guy with no promise and no talent but was extremely diligent unto the end. His first year with the team he was the fourth quarterback on the depth chart. The team had a star name Bledsoe who said he liked Tom, but expected him to be a guy who rode the bench his whole career. That was a fair assessment of how good he was when he came in. The coach said the same thing. His diligence and work ethic were extraordinary, which is why they kept him.

12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

I have never heard one of these OSAS pastors say this. We inherit the promises through faith and patience. That word patience is perfectly illustrated by Brady. He did not get any respect for years and years and years. Today everyone recognizes that he was not slothful, but rather a follower of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Looks like you affirm apostasy in vv. 4–6, but then reduce vv. 7–8 to just loss of reward.
 
Since OSAS is now being debated the issue is what these four letters mean to you.

If you simply understand this to mean that the New Testament teaches us that we can have assurance in our salvation, that is taught.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

We have assurance that Jesus will be the judge of all men.

Colossians 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

We can pray that we would have the full assurance of understanding, but that is a battle. It does not come easily.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

We can have assurance in the apostles that the fellowship of the apostles is the way of life.

But OSAS is usually taught not of having a full assurance of a coming judgement, nor do they really get into all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge in the Bible, and sadly many of the people who teach Calvinism have been exposed by the manner of men that they were, mired in scandal.

No, what they teach is the full assurance of hope. Our blessed hope is in the thought that Jesus has gone and prepared a place for us and will return again to take us so that we will be where He is.

That blessed hope and the full assurance of that hope is what Hebrews 6 is all about.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

You don't get the assurance of hope unless you go on from the basic doctrines. Most people that hold to OSAS treat all works as a "works based salvation". That is childish. Yes, when we first were justified by the blood of Jesus and were baptized we laid a foundation of repentance from dead works and faith towards God. But we must go on to build on that foundation.

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

If you are stuck debating over immersion or sprinkling, or are waiting for someone to lay hands on you, or debates about who goes to hell and who doesn't, those are the principal doctrines that we must go on from.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The writers of the book of Hebrews (most likely Paul and James) were one with the Lord. They desired to go on from these doctrines, but it was based on how the Lord would lead. Personally I can't stand talking about OSAS but it is clear that the Lord still desires to expound on it.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now this is what many who teach OSAS ignore. They will teach that those who fall away, crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame were never saved. But this verse clearly says that they were once enlightened, they did taste the heavenly gift, and they were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, they did taste the good word of God and the powers of the world to come. The writers of Hebrews could not be any clearer, just because twenty years ago I was a burning brother in the Lord does not mean that I can't fall away. This is precisely what they are talking about here, brothers and sisters who at one time were burning for the Lord and have since fallen away, and done so in such a public way as to put the Lord to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This is misunderstood. The analogy here is that we are the land that brings forth the herbs. The herbs refer to our works of righteousness that we do, the fruit of the Spirit. They are an expression of love, joy, and peace. But thorns and briers are an expression of the fallen sinful man. The way you clear the land of briers and thorns is that you burn it. The land is not burned, the thorns and briers are burned. This is what Paul says in 1 Corinthians, if you build with wood, hay and stubble it will go up in flames but you yourself will be saved, but so as through fire. When Jesus died, His blood paid the price for you, that means he purchased you the same way someone would purchase some land. Now if you are full of thorns and briers when the Lord returns that will all be burned. The Lord will still own the land but there is no reward. Everything you did in your life since being saved is a big fat 0. There will be others who have brought forth, some 100 fold. There will be a reward for those ones. This is repeated over and over and over in the gospels. The thing I hate about OSAS is that many who push this doctrine condemn works like a broken record. They are stuck on the fact that you can't be saved by dead works. Yes, we learned that on day one and that is why we were baptized. But the works of the Spirit are what result in a reward. If all you have is thorns and briers then you are near a curse. I would much rather be filled with blessing than with the works of the flesh.

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

This is also what I hate about OSAS. They are focused 100% on being saved from hell, but what about the things that accompany salvation? What about what the Lord told us in the parable of the good Samaritan? You, go and do likewise.

10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

For some people the assurance of being saved from hell is a very small part of their Christian life, mostly it is filled with a labour of love which they show toward the name of Jesus. They have a ministry to the saints and they minister every day, every week. But every now and then you find one of these loonies who has completely forgotten about a work and labor of love. If you mention that they start talking like Rain Man, rocking in their chair and repeating over and over that talking about a ministry is "works based salvation".

11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

If you want the full assurance of hope, you must be diligent unto the end. That is not what most OSAS pastors teach. On the contrary they teach "relax" not "you must be diligent". They say that if you prayed twenty years ago at the beginning of your Christian life you are saved, rather than saying you must be diligent unto the end of your Christian life. For example consider Jamarcus Russell, the 2007 #1 draft pick, a quarterback. There was a lot of promise a lot of talent but no diligence and so no full assurance of hope unto the end. The team that drafted him had a lot of hope, but it was a total bust. Now he had excuses. He had two close relatives die and didn't get a chance to grieve their deaths. Also after hurricane Katrina he was housing a whole lot of refugees who lost their homes. I have seen a whole lot of people who started strong but then the storms of life hit and you discover their faith was built on sand. Compare him to Tom Brady, a guy with no promise and no talent but was extremely diligent unto the end. His first year with the team he was the fourth quarterback on the depth chart. The team had a star name Bledsoe who said he liked Tom, but expected him to be a guy who rode the bench his whole career. That was a fair assessment of how good he was when he came in. The coach said the same thing. His diligence and work ethic were extraordinary, which is why they kept him.

12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

I have never heard one of these OSAS pastors say this. We inherit the promises through faith and patience. That word patience is perfectly illustrated by Brady. He did not get any respect for years and years and years. Today everyone recognizes that he was not slothful, but rather a follower of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Once justified by God, forever justified by God is the Good News.
Period.
 
Now this is what many who teach OSAS ignore. They will teach that those who fall away, crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame were never saved. But this verse clearly says that they were once enlightened, they did taste the heavenly gift, and they were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, they did taste the good word of God and the powers of the world to come. The writers of Hebrews could not be any clearer, just because twenty years ago I was a burning brother in the Lord does not mean that I can't fall away. This is precisely what they are talking about here, brothers and sisters who at one time were burning for the Lord and have since fallen away, and done so in such a public way as to put the Lord to an open shame.

It is not falling away that puts Christ Jesus to open shame, it is the attempt to make His sacrifice insufficient to save fully like the sacrifice of animals.

So therefore we can deduce those who deny OSAS are making the sacrifice of Christ Jesus insufficient to save fully and completely.
 
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Looks like you affirm apostasy in vv. 4–6, but then reduce vv. 7–8 to just loss of reward.
My understanding is that there is salvation of the spirit, soul and body. When you are redeemed by the Lord you are purchased by Him. No one can change that. But just like Paul said in 1 Corinthians you can build with wood, hay and stubble, they will all be burned up and you will suffer loss.

You can be like Edom and Reuben who for a bowl of beans sold his birthright (or in Reuben's case a sinful indulgence). Or you can do something even worse which is to excommunicate a prophet of God. I think in this case you would have to be in a position of authority in the church. But I understand that this is what happened in Sardis, they booted out those that the Lord sent to speak to them, blotting their names out of the church's rolls and therefore the righteous judgement that as you have done it will be done to you, the Lord blots their name out of the book of life.

Now if you do this then you become Laodicea. The Lord is no longer in your midst as a church, He is outside knocking to be let in. That by definition is the apostasy, they have left the Lord Jesus and He is no longer lord of their church. If you decide that you are not going to be ruled by the word of God then you are the apostasy. Even then you can be saved, He is knocking, if you open the door to Him He will come in to you.

In the end it is up to the Lord at the judgement seat. If you suffer loss, if you receive a reward or if He says He never knew you.

The problem with OSAS is that it is a foolish doctrine. They tell you that you can never lose your salvation. So they point to instances in the Bible where someone does lose their salvation and they say "they were never saved in the first place". So that makes the whole thing idiotic. What I want to know is who is saved and who isn't? They didn't do anything to help me understand that. Instead we have the fruit of the Spirit and the works of the Flesh. We have lots of Biblical help in discerning those. There is nothing that says if this person prayed 20 years ago that somehow that annuls the works of the flesh today. That is how the Lord told us we would know who is saved and who isn't, by the fruit.

Now Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So there is a lot of deceit and deception, false prophets are hypocrites, they are putting on an act and playing a role. So it requires discernment and you must examine the person. But to make the job easier we know that the apostles who wrote the New Testament have been thoroughly examined and sealed their testimony with their blood.

OSAS is also foolish because you are not the Lord, you are not omniscient, you will never know who is saved and who isn't until we all appear before the judgement seat. We are never told to do that. We are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. That is what the Bible says, not what OSAS says. To many that teach that doctrine you pray, your are forgiven, that is it. There is no "working it out" and there is no "fear and trembling". They are equating being justified as being saved. That is not wrong, Paul says that we are saved by grace and it is the free gift of God. So that is certainly salvation. It has nothing to do with our own work nor does it have anything to do with reward. But it is clear from Paul's word in Philippians that there is much more to salvation than what he was referring to in Ephesians.

If you take my analogy of the two quarterbacks, one is not condemned to hell because he never panned out as a first round draft pick and the other isn't saved from hell because he won 7 superbowls. The point is there is a promise when we are saved, an inheritance, a birthright. The promise is "Christ in us, the hope of glory". One of those quarterbacks received that promise (allegorically) and the other didn't. That hope of glory is also a part of our salvation. Now the person who is living in sin is not going to receive that part of salvation. I have no idea if they are going to hell or not, that is up to the Lord Jesus. But what I can easily see is which of those two quarterbacks received Christ as the hope of glory (again this is an analogy, not trying to refer to either of them as being saved or not).
 
Once justified by God, forever justified by God is the Good News.
Period.
No. There is a lot more to the good news than simply being justified. There is also sanctification. You cannot tell me that a believer who is living in sin is sanctified. There is also glorification. Peter and Paul both demonstrated how as a person you can have terrible failures in life and still be justified, sanctified and glorified. You can see the glorification in their lives and testimonies. But you can't see it in someone who is living in sin.
 
No. There is a lot more to the good news than simply being justified. There is also sanctification. You cannot tell me that a believer who is living in sin is sanctified. There is also glorification. Peter and Paul both demonstrated how as a person you can have terrible failures in life and still be justified, sanctified and glorified. You can see the glorification in their lives and testimonies. But you can't see it in someone who is living in sin.

Not really a response to what I stated, but ok.
 
It is not falling away that puts Christ Jesus to open shame, it is the attempt to make His sacrifice insufficient to save fully like the sacrifice of animals.

So therefore we can deduce those who deny OSAS are making the sacrifice of Christ Jesus insufficient to save fully and completely.
No you can't. I have said repeatedly that Jesus' blood redeems us from sin. It is a free gift of grace, we are saved by His blood and not by any works that we have done. But that refers to justification.

Once you are justified, what do you do?

Do you build with wood, hay and stubble? Do you sell your birthright for a pot of beans? Do you beat your fellow servants of the Lord and eat and drink with the drunken? Do you bury your talent in the backyard? Do you borrow oil from others when your lamps go out?

You received justification by the Lord's work, it was not based on anything you did. Therefore there is no reward for that. Paul talks frequently about receiving a reward, so then OSAS never even addresses the reward aspect of the Christian life. Paul said if we build with gold, silver and precious stones we will receive a reward. Those that don't suffer loss. So OSAS never addresses the fact that some Christians will suffer loss and others will receive a reward.
 
so then OSAS never even addresses the reward aspect of the Christian life.

I just want to address this part, so I am extracting from the rest, since I am trying to stay on topic.

It actually does, quite a bit, if one reads the material written by those who affirm this biblical doctrine.

When a person is regenerated and justified it cannot be revoked, taken back or lost.
I am not speaking about the other facets of individual salvation.
Scripture is clear, a regenerated person stays regenerated and justified.. and God deals with His children accordingly even unto physical death.
 
God said that whosoever believes in Him shall have eternal life he didn’t say almost eternal life.

God's Word also teaches that one can fall away form the Lord and not be saved in the end.
The OSAS heretics claim Christians can live in sin and still go to Heaven, which explains their ongoing sinful behavior.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If OSAS was actually true, the Lord wouldn't be saying what He says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 and these other scriptures wouldn't even be in God's Word!

Here's another one that wouldn't be in God's Word if OSAS were actually true:

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and
doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

So to all those that embrace OSAS - enjoy thy heresy whilst thy can because when you die you'll be going someplace you did not expect to be going.

Heresy is one of the works of the flesh on God's list of "those that do these things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21)



side note:
this is the NEW covenant.

Yeah, all the references showing the Lord does not teach OSAS are from the New Testament.



The apostles, like John and Paul did too, so you are in good company.

Actually they did not.

Here's something Paul said that he never would have said IF the OSAS heresy were actually biblical:

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be
a castaway.

The word castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:27 is the same greek word used for reprobate

Paul is saying if he does not control his body (refrain from walking after the flesh), he would be lost and not go to Heaven.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

No condemnation is only applicable to people who walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh.

Now here is where the OSSAS heretics will chime in and make their argument for being able to walk after the flesh and still be saved. They do this because the demons that are leading them direct them to pervert the Word of the Living God as satan seeks to make Jesus a minister of sin.
 
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I just want to address this part, so I am extracting from the rest, since I am trying to stay on topic.

It actually does, quite a bit, if one reads the material written by those who affirm this biblical doctrine.

When a person is regenerated and justified it cannot be revoked, taken back or lost.
I am not speaking about the other facets of individual salvation.
Scripture is clear, a regenerated person stays regenerated and justified.. and God deals with His children accordingly even unto physical death.
This is why I used the term "many" in talking about this doctrine. There are many different variations in how it is taught.

I was taught the assurance of salvation, but it was one facet of the New Testament.

No one is saying that when Edom sold his birthright for porridge that he was no longer Isaac's son. Likewise with Reuben. After sleeping with his father's concubine he was still born of Jacob, but he was disgraced. Likewise with a field that is full of thorns and thistles. Just because you burn that up doesn't mean the field no longer belongs to you.

The virgins who did not bring oil in their lamps were still virgins but they were foolish. The servant who beat his fellow servants and ate and drank with the drunken was a servant but he was an evil servant. The guy who buried the talent in the backyard was slothful, etc.

In a great house you have some things that are made for honor and some that are made for dishonor. You have glasses that you drink wine out of and you have a chamber pot where you poop into.
 
This is why I used the term "many" in talking about this doctrine. There are many different variations in how it is taught.

I was taught the assurance of salvation, but it was one facet of the New Testament.

No one is saying that when Edom sold his birthright for porridge that he was no longer Isaac's son. Likewise with Reuben. After sleeping with his father's concubine he was still born of Jacob, but he was disgraced. Likewise with a field that is full of thorns and thistles. Just because you burn that up doesn't mean the field no longer belongs to you.

Fair enough.
 
God's Word also teaches that one can fall away form the Lord and not be saved in the end.
The OSAS heretics claim Christians can live in sin and still go to Heaven, which explains their ongoing sinful behavior.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If OSAS was actually true, the Lord wouldn't be saying what He says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 and these other scriptures wouldn't even be in God's Word!

Here's another one that wouldn't be in God's Word if OSAS were actually true:

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and
doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

So to all those that embrace OSAS - enjoy thy heresy whilst thy can because when you die you'll be going someplace you did not expect to be going.

Heresy is one of the works of the flesh on God's list of "those that do these things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21)





Yeah, all the references showing the Lord does not teach OSAS are from the New Testament.





Actually they did not.

Here's something Paul said that he never would have said IF the OSAS heresy were actually biblical:

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be
a castaway.

The word castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:27 is the same greek word used for reprobate

Paul is saying if he does not control his body (refrain from walking after the flesh), he would be lost and not go to Heaven.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

No condemnation is only applicable to people who walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh.

Now here is where the OSSAS heretics will chime in and make their argument for being able to walk after the flesh and still be saved. They do this because the demons that are leading them direct them to pervert the Word of the Living God as satan seeks to make Jesus a minister of sin.

Always the issue with sin and God's Grace, as though the sacrifice of Christ Jesus was insufficient.
 
No you can't.

Sadly your claim is that Christians can go ahead and live in sin and still be saved.

You should stop teaching doctrines of devils.


Once you are justified, what do you do?

Remain obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit (thru HIS strength and power) based on what God says ion His Word and refrain from calling him a liar by claiming Christians can live in sin and are still saved in the end which is doctrines of devils



so then OSAS never even addresses the reward aspect of the Christian life.

That's the story the heretics love to tell in their weak and paltry attempts to justify the heresy they teach

They'll claim if Christian lives in sin, living after the flesh being carnally mind then they'll still be saved but they'll lose a few rewards meaning you can enjoy sin all you'd like in this live living like the devil and the worst that will happen to them is they'll have a little shack on the backside of Heaven while everyone else gets a gigantic mansion

These people refuse to accept all the Lord says in His Word
 
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Always the issue with sin and God's Grace, as though the sacrifice of Christ Jesus was insufficient.

So we can continue living in sin and all our sins are magically washed away?

That's mocking God according to Galatians 6:7,8 which clearly tells us that if we so to the flesh we shall reap corruption

Is your claim we do not reap what we sow?
 
So we can continue living in sin and all our sins are magically washed away?

That's mocking God according to Galatians 6:7,8 which clearly tells us that if we so to the flesh we shall reap corruption

Is your claim we do not reap what we sow?

When you speak about justification and regeneration then I will respond.
 
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Sadly your claim is that Christians can go ahead and live in sin and still be saved.

You should stop teaching doctrines of devils.
That was not my claim. Maybe you should stop slandering people.

I was simply saying that I was not denying Paul's word in Ephesians that we are saved by grace and it is a free gift of God and not based on our works.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
Sadly, you preach salvation is by good behaviour

You apparently believe it's OK to live in disobedience and refuse to abide in Christ and instead be led by devils.

The OSAS heretics claim is works based not understanding that it's the power of the Holy Spirit doing the good works as they refuse to be led of the Spirit so they can keep the door open to living in sin and try to convince themselves it's OK.

What makes us children of God is IF we answer the Father's call to abide in Christ having turned away from our old life of sin and walk with Him in newness of life

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

This is what baptism is supposed to be about... making a covenant with the Lord, a public declaration of faith, a commitment to put off the old man and put on the new man and to walk in newness of life

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are called to cooperate with the Lord, to be co-laborers with Him. He made us in His Image, so we have free will... the Lord desires for us to willingly choose to turn away from our old life of sin and come abide In Christ and not turn away, ever!

1 Corinthians 3:9
We are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

It's God's work, His power, His ability... but WE have to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him in the Light.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Getting born again is the introduction and the starting point and if one truly believes and dies moments after getting born again, yes they would go to Heaven.

But few die immediately after getting born again so it remains to be seen... will WE to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him abiding In Him until the end of our lives so that we might be saved???

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Endure to the end as in... DON'T fall away!
 
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