144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church

[Psalm1]

I do. Any Scripture can be made mention of, if it applies to the Scripture at hand. Such as the first resurrection of the Lamb's church at His return.



2Co 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ignorance or neglect of NT doctrine, when interpreting NT prophecy. Especially if NT doctrine is ever contradicted. (As some self-styled Christian 'Gentiles' do, when saying only Jews can be sealed to serve the living God. So that they segregate between Greek, Scythian, Russian, Macedonian, and Jew in the body and service of Christ on earth...


So you say. Just repeating yourself doesn't say it any better.

I've already shown correction by direct challenges to your doctrine. Just repeating yourself doesn't show any error in mine.

If you want to directly challenge my teaching, then I'll be glad to see it; otherwise, I'm moving on. Thanks much.

QUOTE
""I do. Any Scripture can be made mention of, if it applies to the Scripture at hand. Such as the first resurrection of the Lamb's church at His return""

The return after the trib Is Rev 19

The return of rev 14:14 is DURING THE TRIB POSSIBLY YEARS BEFORE REV 19.

Replacement theology is poorly thought out.

 

[Psalm1]

I told you not to play any anti-semite card, if you want me to engage you. That includes not doing it by insulting intelligence.



If you make up the 2 wives, end times becomes a study in mysticism...

QUOTE
""If you make up the 2 wives, end times becomes a study in mysticism.""

Tell it to the Holy Spirit.
He inspired every word of the books of Ruth and Hosea.
Ruth and Naomi have no meaning?
They are inserted for what understanding?
Gomer represents nothing?

The Bible ends in the bride calling out to the groom

I am sure that is also part of the omission of replacement theology.
In fact, I have never seen a replacement teaching touching on the bride.

 

[Psalm1]

I told you not to play any anti-semite card, if you want me to engage you. That includes not doing it by insulting intelligence.



If you make up the 2 wives, end times becomes a study in mysticism...

QUOTE
""I told you not to play any anti-semite card, if you want me to engage you. That includes not doing it by insulting intelligence.""

You know, those diversions and lack of understanding , take away from trying to find truth.
I am bringing to the TABLE, THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DEBATE.
You can not handle the facts that are there.

Calm down state your doctrine.
Watch me make you go against the bible.

That is the difference

The dimensions I place before you are not in your replacement teachers material.

That is what upsets you .
And the nonsense of demanding some apology, in order to divert from accountability, and, from reconciling verses that demolishing that doctrine.

 

[Psalm1]

Good Scripture. Thanks.

Did you see what he did to the 144,000?

Every single one of you have no understanding of firstfruits.

Pssst..the 144k were not resurrected and seen walking in Jerusalem 2000 years before they were born.

 

[Psalm1]

The 144k
Numbered and labeled by the Holy Spirit..
The pesky firstfruit Jews.

Where can yall place them besides the bible?
A terrible dilemma.
Glad I never went down that path.

Pride keeps man from admitting bad doctrine.

 

[Psalm1]

I do. Any Scripture can be made mention of, if it applies to the Scripture at hand. Such as the first resurrection of the Lamb's church at His return.



2Co 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ignorance or neglect of NT doctrine, when interpreting NT prophecy. Especially if NT doctrine is ever contradicted. (As some self-styled Christian 'Gentiles' do, when saying only Jews can be sealed to serve the living God. So that they segregate between Greek, Scythian, Russian, Macedonian, and Jew in the body and service of Christ on earth...


So you say. Just repeating yourself doesn't say it any better.

I've already shown correction by direct challenges to your doctrine. Just repeating yourself doesn't show any error in mine.

If you want to directly challenge my teaching, then I'll be glad to see it; otherwise, I'm moving on. Thanks much.

QUOTE
""2Co 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ignorance or neglect of NT doctrine, when interpreting NT prophecy. Especially if NT doctrine is ever contradicted. (As some self-styled Christian 'Gentiles' do, when saying only Jews can be sealed to serve the living God. So that they segregate between Greek, Scythian, Russian, Macedonian, and Jew in the body and service of Christ on earth...""

huh?
And you claim "understanding"?
You are trying to overlap something.

Israel is a "Holy Nation".
Look at their behavior all through their existence. Anything but Holy.
The believer is "seated in heavenly places".
...and yet also here on earth.
Both of those dynamics are declared over a people BY GOD.

The 144k are virgins literally and figuratively.
"...a chaste virgin in Christ", has nothing to do with a natural man's marital status.
...and yet a man CAN BE both a spiritual, and physical virgin

The dilemma is in your blenderizing the bible.
Because you now have the 144k virgins,who are born again Jews, and ALREADY SEALED BY THE Holy Ghost ( at salvation), receiving a seal.
So that is not factored in , in that doctrine.

That is a second seal, is a seal AGAINST the flying scorpions. AS THE BIBLE TEACHES.

Amazingly, only the 144,000, born again, messianic Jews, are sealed.
Well, with the church in heaven, during "Jacob's trouble" ( not "churches trouble"), there is no need to seal the church.

Yet another dilemma , however it flows PERFECTLY with a pretrib rapture.
The rapture Jesus taught.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Ezekiel had a vision of the gentiles joining the tribes of Israel. Tribal membership is not exclusive to natural seed

So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 47:21-23​

 

[ewq1938]

Ezekiel had a vision of the gentiles joining the tribes of Israel.

It does not say they joined the tribe but they receive the same benefits of the tribe they associate with. It also calls them a stranger throughout the passage.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It does not say they joined the tribe but they receive the same benefits of the tribe they associate with. It also calls them a stranger throughout the passage.

Your mind is hung up on the idea that the word tribe can only pertain to genetics. Isaiah prophesied that God would place gentiles in the tribe of Levi, so obviously there would come a point when all natural distinctions were to be done away with

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:20-21 ​

 

[ATG]

Ezekiel had a vision of the gentiles joining the tribes of Israel. Tribal membership is not exclusive to natural seed

So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 47:21-23​

to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you:

and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

Only by birth, not by conversion.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you:

and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

Only by birth, not by conversion.

That was said to make sure it was understood that their offspring were also considered tribe members without them having to convert. It had nothing to do with genetics. There was one law for both natural born and proselytes who become circumcised and kept the law of the land. What you are suggesting, that tribal membership is based on genetics, makes no sense because a convert could have come with his wife and had a kid who would be considered a tribe member.

 

[ATG]

It does not say they joined the tribe but they receive the same benefits of the tribe they associate with. It also calls them a stranger throughout the passage.

Correct. A convert is a stranger that believes the God of Israel and obeys the law of Moses, such as Rahab and Ruth.

They shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; They shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

It's only those born of a convert, that they have inheritance in one tribe of the nation. The convert stranger is adopted into the national covenant of Israel, but only the begotten offspring become of the natural tribes of Israel by seed of Abraham:

Gen 48:4
And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

If a stranger remains unmarried, then they remain convert citizens for life, but do not receive any inheritance among the tribes by conversion alone. Only the natural seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has the inheritance of land among the tribes of Israel.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It's only those born of a convert, that they have inheritance in one tribe of the nation. The convert stranger is adopted into the national covenant of Israel, but only the begotten offspring become of the natural tribes of Israel by seed of Abraham:

And if that convert came with his convert wife and had a kid, that would completely invalid your claim that only natural seed can be tribe members because there would be no natural seed of Abraham in them.

 

[ATG]

Your mind is hung up on the idea that the word tribe can only pertain to genetics. Isaiah prophesied that God would place gentiles in the tribe of Levi, so obviously there would come a point when all natural distinctions were to be done away with

So, I think for the first time I see some sort of quasi natural replacement theology, where all people on earth become natural Jews, but not by birth.

While it's true that all blood and seed of man is one, there still remains the genealogical difference between parental begetting, whereby the personal characteristics and family inheritance are passed on from father to son...

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:20-21 ​

And so, once again you have false doctrine by false reading of simple Scripture:

All of the natural Jews, brethren, children of Israel bring offering to the millennial house of the Lord, and only from among them are they taken for priests and Levites.

Nowhere does the Scripture speak of other nations 'becoming' natural Israeli Jews, so that all nations are natural brethren and children of Israel on earth...

Your theory of natural transplant 'fusion' in the Millennium is another cute one of yours, but as usual wrong. The Bible should be read as the plain grammatical words, that they are, with standard grammatical comprehension skills. Scriptures are written in plain language for any child to understand. If God wants to transplant and fuse all nations into one nation of the Jews, then Scripture would say so in those words. Afterall, since God can make man from dust, and a woman from a man's rib, then He could certainly make all people on earth natural Jews. But, He never says He does nor will...

Scriptures are not some sort of hazy smoke signals in sky, with unheard of mystical meaning hidden within...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So, I think for the first time I see some sort of quasi natural replacement theology, where all people on earth become natural Jews, but not by birth.

While it's true that all blood and seed of man is one, there still remains the genealogical difference between parental begetting, whereby the personal characteristics and family inheritance are passed on from father to son...




And so, once again you have false doctrine by false reading of simple Scripture:

All of the natural Jews, brethren, children of Israel bring offering to the millennial house of the Lord, and only from among them are they taken for priests and Levites.

Nowhere does the Scripture speak of other nations 'becoming' natural Israeli Jews, so that all nations are natural brethren and children of Israel on earth...

Your theory of natural transplant 'fusion' in the Millennium is another cute one of yours, but as usual wrong. The Bible should be read as the plain grammatical words, that they are, with standard grammatical comprehension skills. Scriptures are written in plain language for any child to understand. If God wants to transplant and fuse all nations into one nation of the Jews, then Scripture would say so in those words. Afterall, since God can make man from dust, and a woman from a man's rib, then He could certainly make all people on earth natural Jews. But, He never says He does nor will...

Scriptures are not some sort of hazy smoke signals in sky, with unheard of mystical meaning hidden within...

There would be no reason for the natural seed of Israel to bring other natural seed of Israel from out of all nations to present as an offering to the lord. Isaiah's prophecy is an obvious reference to the gentiles being grafted into Israel and becoming their brethren as was also foretold in numerous other prophecies.

 

[ATG]

That was said to make sure it was understood that their offspring were also considered tribe members without them having to convert.

No problem. Now that you're being clear, then you agree with the Bible, where tribal membership and land inheritance is only by natural seed of Abraham, to natural children born of a tribal Israeli-Jew. Not by strangers converting to the God and law of Moses.

The converted strangers become citizens of the national covenant with the God of Israel, not tribal members with land inheritance promised to the natural seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which can be born of a natural stranger married to a natural born Israeli Jew.

Natural strangers can convert, but not generate a natural tribal Israeli by marriage to another converted stranger...

It had nothing to do with genetics.

It has everything to do with the genealogy of Abraham's natural seed.

Mat 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Phl 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews;

Genetics has nothing to do with it, since all blood and seed of man is genetically the same.

Act 17:26
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,

because a convert could have come with his wife and had a kid who would be considered a tribe member.

False again. Only those born of the seed of Abraham, including by converted stranger of another nation, shall be of the tribes of Israel with land inheritance.

Gen 48:4
And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

Remember, this is about what the Bible says, not what anyone wants it to say. You can change the covenant promise to Abraham's seed, into a fusion of one-world family genealogy, but the Bible and God's promise to Abraham's natural seed, remains the same...

It remains the same today with God's promise to Abraham's natural seed, as well as the Israeli nation: Natural members of another family and nation, can become a stranger/immigrant national citizen. Only if married to a natural born Israeli-Jew, can their offspring by the seed of Abraham be a natural born member of a tribe of Israel, with right to land promised to Abraham and His seed... That promise is not to any convert born of another family and nation...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No problem. Now that you're being clear, then you agree with the Bible, where tribal membership and land inheritance is only by natural seed of Abraham, to natural children born of a tribal Israeli-Jew. Not by strangers converting to the God and law of Moses.

The converted strangers become citizens of the national covenant with the God of Israel, not tribal members with land inheritance promised to the natural seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which can be born of a natural stranger married to a natural born Israeli Jew.

Natural strangers can convert, but not generate a natural tribal Israeli by marriage to another converted stranger...

No I don't agree because scripture says otherwise. Converts and their offspring received a land inheritance in whatever tribe they dwelt among. Of course a new convert would have to first purchase land, but thereafter in would be his offspring's through inheritance.

And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 47:22-23​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

False again. Only those born of the seed of Abraham, including by converted stranger of another nation, shall be of the tribes of Israel with land inheritance.

This directly contradicts scripture that I've posted

 

[ATG]

There would be no reason for the natural seed of Israel to bring other natural seed of Israel from out of all nations to present as an offering to the lord.

Ok, it's been interesting again, in a strange way, but now you've left any semblance of basic grammatical comprehension:

No one is presenting other people to the Lord, especially not strange people, but they are presenting their offerings to the Lord.

Isaiah is not prophecying some strange fusion theology, of natural Israeli-Jews presenting strangers to the Lord to be 'supernaturally' made an Israeli tribal Jew. It's not even the prophesy of an Israeli-Jew presenting a born offspring to the Lord for service, as Hannah did with Samuel...

Isaiah's prophecy is an obvious reference to the gentiles being grafted into Israel and becoming their brethren as was also foretold in numerous other prophecies.

Isaiah's prophecy is to the seed of Abraham promised land and service to the LORD and King over earth.

Isaiah is not pre-preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, and prophecying Romans 11...

I can see you've done a whole lot of imagining for this theory of natural fusion/grafting between strangers. Very interesting, but strange...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No one is presenting other people to the Lord, especially not strange people, but they are presenting their offerings to the Lord.

It plainly says that they would bring those brought out of the nations and present them in Jerusalem just like the children of Israel presented offerings to the lord.