What is a Prophet?

[sawdust]

The founding apostles are called that because they were the founding apostles. Duh. The church did not expand to the whole world in their day. The ministry of apostle has not ceased. They've just had a name change. They are called missionaries. But their role is exactly the same. For example, Watchman Nee founded at least 700 churches in China. He was a true apostle.

Do you not know that apostles do not have authority over the church? They appoint elders to govern the church and then get on with the work of founding another. They will return to the immature church if necessary to help. But they do not rule.

"Not that we lord it over your faith, but we are fellow workers with you for your joy, because it is by faith that you stand firm."
(2 Corinthians 1:24.) See also 2 Corinthians 4:5

No their role is not the same. The 12 Apostles between them had authority over the whole Church, missionaries have no such authority.

Jesus has all authority. Does He "lord it over us". You might need to rethink what having authority is all about.

How do you think the Apostles could appoint pastors where necessary if they did not have the authority to do so?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Paul acknowledges "the 12" which included Matthias.

I agree there are only 12 Apostles of the Lamb whose names are written on the foundation seen in Revelation.

Regardless, if you don't include Matthias, what of Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, James... they are all called apostles?

The original 12 had to be a "witness" to the Jews. Their standard of witness was to have actually SEEN the event. What were they witness to:

“Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

They could witness His ministry, baptism, resurrection and ascension.

Paul did not meet even the legal requirement of a "witness" of the things Peter listed: His ministry, baptism, resurrection and ascension.

In Acts 6 this is recorded: "Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables."

Here, Matthias, not Paul, is one of the twelve.

“Paul acknowledges "the 12" which included Matthias.

I agree there are only 12 Apostles of the Lamb whose names are written on the foundation seen in Revelation. “

yeah brother natthias was never chosen by Jesus in person the twelve including Paul were . That was my only point . You asked who are the apostles of the Christ ( the lamb )

ado ehat I said was there were twelve men that were all chosen and appointed by Jesus in person natthias was not he was chosen by casting lots before anyone received the Holy Ghost . There are twelve apostles of Christ they were all chosen by him not by casting lots but all 12 were chosen in the same manner only Paul eas chosen later to replace Judas who was foreordained to betray Jesus .

matthias , or Silas or appolos neither were chosen by Jesus like Paul and the other eleven . That’s my only point . Twelve apostles of Christ appointed by him to be his witnesses to the ends of the earth . And again look who the authors of scripture in the nt are . People still today hear thier witness that Jesus commissioned himself .

they are different from Matthias or Silas or appolos uniquely chosen and commissioned by the lord to be his twelve apostles …. The reason we see thier names written in heaven is because they were chosen by Jesus to do what they did .

they aren’t the same as anyone else they are set apart . My point is just that nothing more about Matthias or Silas ect there are twelve specific men chosen in a specific way again ( not counting Judas the betrayer but including Paul the apostle )

Factually brother look at how they were chosen twelve ring the same . This isn’t the same as a man referring to another as an apostle ot was god choosing twelve soecific men . That’s the reason there are only the twelve name written in heaven those are the men he chose himself and notice they are the foundation of the wall around the city thier testimony I mean .

aim not disagreeing that forninstance appolos and believe and Paul were called apostles of a certain church through group prayer and everything that happened too . What I’m saying is there are only twelve apostles of Jesus Christ , those he personally chose and ordained there is even ot prophecy about them

It’s different to call ourself an apostle of even have a pastor annointed us as apostle through prayer that’s different from being John or Peter or Paul who stood face to face with the lord and we’re chosen when they did and appointed to witness to all the world which there’s proof that thier witness still echoes across the world even today nearly 2000 years later

they are set apart from anyone else

 

[Gideon300]

No their role is not the same. The 12 Apostles between them had authority over the whole Church, missionaries have no such authority.

Jesus has all authority. Does He "lord it over us". You might need to rethink what having authority is all about.

How do you think the Apostles could appoint pastors where necessary if they did not have the authority to do so?

Apostles appointed elders. The elders managed the church. Your premise that the 12 apostles have authority over the whole church is illogical. They are all deceased. They can do nothing.

The structure of the modern church generally is unbiblical. The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated. When Jesus spoke to the churches in Revelation, He did not address any particular individual and for sure not the apostle that founded the church. Most of the apostles were dead by then. By the way, the mark of an apostle/missionary is that they are itinerant. That's why they do not exert authority over the churches they found. They will stay a while (usually) to set them up and then move on. Paul did that. He returned to see how things were going at each church, but not to take over.

I don't know why you are fired up about apostles. They are one of the gifts given to the church by Jesus. Since the church is not yet perfect and some places remain un-evangelised, the role of apostle is not yet over.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Don't confuse the gift of prophecy with the ministry and office of the prophet. Anyone who is baptised in the Holy Spirit can prophesy. There are few who are prophets by calling.

“Be careful not to confuse the gift of prophecy with the ministry gift of the prphet.”

thats what prophets are people who receive the spiritual gift of prophecy . That is why they are called prophets

aim not sure I’m confused how else is there going to be a prophet unless god gives them the gift of prophecy ?

“Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

prophets prophesy because they have that particular gift from God divided as he wills amongst the body

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Don't confuse the gift of prophecy with the ministry and office of the prophet. Anyone who is baptised in the Holy Spirit can prophesy. There are few who are prophets by calling.

yeah whoever god gives the gift of prophecy to is a prophet there’s no confusion

“And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:28-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

no everyone isn’t a prophet everyone doesn’t speak on tongues everyone doesn’t interpret everyone doesn’t teach ect God gives those gifts to people for the edification of the whole body. There’s no confusion if a person receives the gift of prophecy that means they are a prophet if they don’t then it means they aren’t . The only way to be a prophet is that God gives you that gift

 

[Aaron56]

“Paul acknowledges "the 12" which included Matthias.

I agree there are only 12 Apostles of the Lamb whose names are written on the foundation seen in Revelation. “

yeah brother natthias was never chosen by Jesus in person the twelve including Paul were . That was my only point . You asked who are the apostles of the Christ ( the lamb )

ado ehat I said was there were twelve men that were all chosen and appointed by Jesus in person natthias was not he was chosen by casting lots before anyone received the Holy Ghost . There are twelve apostles of Christ they were all chosen by him not by casting lots but all 12 were chosen in the same manner only Paul eas chosen later to replace Judas who was foreordained to betray Jesus .

matthias , or Silas or appolos neither were chosen by Jesus like Paul and the other eleven . That’s my only point . Twelve apostles of Christ appointed by him to be his witnesses to the ends of the earth . And again look who the authors of scripture in the nt are . People still today hear thier witness that Jesus commissioned himself .

they are different from Matthias or Silas or appolos uniquely chosen and commissioned by the lord to be his twelve apostles …. The reason we see thier names written in heaven is because they were chosen by Jesus to do what they did .

they aren’t the same as anyone else they are set apart . My point is just that nothing more about Matthias or Silas ect there are twelve specific men chosen in a specific way again ( not counting Judas the betrayer but including Paul the apostle )

Factually brother look at how they were chosen twelve ring the same . This isn’t the same as a man referring to another as an apostle ot was god choosing twelve soecific men . That’s the reason there are only the twelve name written in heaven those are the men he chose himself and notice they are the foundation of the wall around the city thier testimony I mean .

aim not disagreeing that forninstance appolos and believe and Paul were called apostles of a certain church through group prayer and everything that happened too . What I’m saying is there are only twelve apostles of Jesus Christ , those he personally chose and ordained there is even ot prophecy about them

It’s different to call ourself an apostle of even have a pastor annointed us as apostle through prayer that’s different from being John or Peter or Paul who stood face to face with the lord and we’re chosen when they did and appointed to witness to all the world which there’s proof that thier witness still echoes across the world even today nearly 2000 years later

they are set apart from anyone else

Why does Paul, himself, acknowledge 'the twelve' if he was a member already?

"..and that He (Christ) was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve."

Here, Paul counted Matthias among "the twelve" Paul gives this fact as evidence for the truth of the gospel.

Also, 1 Thessalonians includes Silvanus and Timothy as apostles. The letter is written by Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.

"Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, when we might have made demands as apostles of Christ."

Paul also notes James as an apostle:

"But I saw none of the other apostles, save James the Lord's brother."

Also, how do you deal with Barnabas being called an apostle?

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

Here is how Barnabas and Paul were distinguished as apostles:

"Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away."

The Holy Spirit said... Where was this written? Of course it wasn't written. The teachers and prophets heard this directly from the Spirit.

And then the Holy Spirit, by inspiring the scripture, clearly calls Barnabas an apostle:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

The Spirit does only what He sees the Lord do. If the Spirit chose Barnabas the Lord chose Barnabas.

This is the authority of the Holy Spirit: He only speaks what He hears from the Lord:

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. "

Before one might say "Yeah, but, Paul and Barnabas split and we never hear from Barnabas again. Also, Barnabas never wrote anything of the New testament."

Consider this: There are only 9 authors of the New testament. Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and the writer of Hebrews. The writer of James was not the Apostle James, James died before it was written. Mark was an associate of Peter and Paul and not among the 12. So now we're left with 7 authors. Even if we include Paul among the Twelve and assume Hebrews was written by an unnamed Apostle, 5 Apostles of the Lamb wrote nothing of the New Testament. So "writing part of the Bible" is not a qualifier for apostleship.

 

[Psalm1]

Apostles and prophets are part of the 5 fold ministry.
Those that say all that went away are centered on doctrine...not the bible

 

[pinebeach]

Prophets are those that the beings in the spiritual realms use as a conduit to serve them, that they're only being led by these spirits that they're one with the spirit that possesses them. Like God's prophets are possessed with His spirit, that they are under His control.

I believe scripture indicates a choice as to whether or not to speak on behalf of God. Considering the useage of the word possession as relates to the demonic, I would hesitate to compare that function with a 'prophet' I don't know exactly how you are applying the word here, but it makes me raise an eyebrow.

Further, the problem with understanding a prophet's function in the NT, is that the Bible says the prophets should speak 2 or 3 and not just 1. Prophets (or those who think they are) seem to function in a kind of lone ranger way and often act like they need to be 'obeyed'.

There is a difference between the old and new testaments with regards to prophets.

Maybe you might explain just how you are thinking when using the word possession? I would find it helpful. Thanks

 

[sawdust]

Apostles appointed elders. The elders managed the church. Your premise that the 12 apostles have authority over the whole church is illogical. They are all deceased. They can do nothing.

The structure of the modern church generally is unbiblical. The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated. When Jesus spoke to the churches in Revelation, He did not address any particular individual and for sure not the apostle that founded the church. Most of the apostles were dead by then. By the way, the mark of an apostle/missionary is that they are itinerant. That's why they do not exert authority over the churches they found. They will stay a while (usually) to set them up and then move on. Paul did that. He returned to see how things were going at each church, but not to take over.

I don't know why you are fired up about apostles. They are one of the gifts given to the church by Jesus. Since the church is not yet perfect and some places remain un-evangelised, the role of apostle is not yet over.

I said they had authority. How many missionaries or any other so called apostles do you know could define what would be required for all the Churches as shown to us in Acts 15.

Jesus addressed the messenger of each Church. Don't know how your church operates but in mine the pastor is it's messenger.

Unevangelised places require evangelists, another appointment of God along with pastors and teachers. The role of Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist and Pastor/Teacher is more than simply being given a spiritual gift like knowledge or healing etc. It is an office, a position of authority within the Church. They answer directly to God which is why James says not many should become teachers. We no longer need apostles or prophets today. We have God's word in full and the foundation has been laid. The evangelist and pastor/teacher is required to build upon that foundation.

I'm not "fired up". I speak of what I have been taught. Agree, disagree, I don't much care.

ps. if the modern church is generally unbiblical, why are you using it as an example of what should be happening?

 

[presidente]

I see prophesying as part and parcel of a prophets ministry. Peter described prophesying when discussing the prophecies of the Old Testament, "Holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.' Prophets would speak messages the Spirit of God gave them, sometimes starting off with 'Thus said the Lord'. Agabus in the New Testament said, "Thus saith the Holy Ghost."

The word translated 'prophesy' does tend to show up in relation to predicting future events in the Old Testament, though in one case that is prophesying to the dry bones in a vision, telling them to do something. But the messages of prophets, those 'Thus saith the LORD' messages could also be about the past, or present, not just future predictions. It's what God wanted to say through the human vessel.

There are also Psalms that are prophetic that do not follow that 'Thus saith the LORD' first person message format, and even a reference to prophesying on musical instruments. Prophets might also do sign acts, like burning hear or wearing a belt that had been buried, or wearing a yoke as part of the message. Prophets also got dreams or visions and interpreted dreams.

As far as personality type... I think that is the wrong direction to go in for trying to understand a prophet. A prophet could be very social, or not. Some are more popular than others. That depends on the heart condition of the people they are with. Moses might have been more popular at times than Jeremiah, but there were times the people also wanted to stone Moses. But if people are following Christ rightly, why would they reject what the Spirit is saying? So if an individual is not persecuted in his own church, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not a prophet.

Also, there are blunt people who like to talk about the Bible, who may be encouraged to think they are prophets just because they are convinced of how right they are on doctrine and they lack agreeableness.

The New Testament never says to hear one pastor preach a sermon, and does not mention a pulpit. It does command to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge and it says you can all prophesy one by one that everyone may learn and everyone may be comforted.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why does Paul, himself, acknowledge 'the twelve' if he was a member already?

"..and that He (Christ) was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve."

Here, Paul counted Matthias among "the twelve" Paul gives this fact as evidence for the truth of the gospel.

Also, 1 Thessalonians includes Silvanus and Timothy as apostles. The letter is written by Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.

"Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, when we might have made demands as apostles of Christ."

Paul also notes James as an apostle:

"But I saw none of the other apostles, save James the Lord's brother."

Also, how do you deal with Barnabas being called an apostle?

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

Here is how Barnabas and Paul were distinguished as apostles:

"Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away."

The Holy Spirit said... Where was this written? Of course it wasn't written. The teachers and prophets heard this directly from the Spirit.

And then the Holy Spirit, by inspiring the scripture, clearly calls Barnabas an apostle:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

The Spirit does only what He sees the Lord do. If the Spirit chose Barnabas the Lord chose Barnabas.

This is the authority of the Holy Spirit: He only speaks what He hears from the Lord:

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. "

Before one might say "Yeah, but, Paul and Barnabas split and we never hear from Barnabas again. Also, Barnabas never wrote anything of the New testament."

Consider this: There are only 9 authors of the New testament. Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and the writer of Hebrews. The writer of James was not the Apostle James, James died before it was written. Mark was an associate of Peter and Paul and not among the 12. So now we're left with 7 authors. Even if we include Paul among the Twelve and assume Hebrews was written by an unnamed Apostle, 5 Apostles of the Lamb wrote nothing of the New Testament. So "writing part of the Bible" is not a qualifier for apostleship.

“Why does Paul, himself, acknowledge 'the twelve' if he was a member already?”

again brother you aren’t hearing me . Paul was chosen afterwards to replace Judas by Jesus appearing to him after his resurrection and appointing him as he did the other eleven apostles after he rose



This is how Matthias was chosen before they received the holy ghost .

“And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not the same as this

“until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

….But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:2, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this concerning Paul

“But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: for I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Amy point to you had always been these twelve men Jesus chose hinself and appointed as his witnesses to the end of the earth . The ones Jesus sent , his messengers .
“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these men are different from anyone else and do you think it’s coincidental that Jesus himself chose twelve men ( again removing Judas because )

“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:70‬ ‭

“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Judas and the other apostles were chosen purposefully by Jesus Judas pre ordained role , was to betray him and set in motion the events of the cross.

To replace him jesus didn’t command anyone to cast lots , he appeared himself to Paul the apostle and called and appointed him to be an apostle or “ sent messenger “ just as he had the other eleven after his crucifixion when he appeared to them and gave them the same commission to preach the gospel to all people regardless of nationality , just as Jesus himself appeared himself and chose in the same way just at a later time the twelth apostle , Paul formerly Saul of tarsus .

ado you not find it coincidental tbat there are twelve names of the apostles of Jesus in heaven and there are twelve men who were chosen and called and sent to be his apostles by him personally ?

again im not disputing that people call themselves or even other people apostles I k ow people who claim apostleship today . Tbat doesn’t make them equal or the same as the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ that’s my point

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“Why does Paul, himself, acknowledge 'the twelve' if he was a member already?”

again brother you aren’t hearing me . Paul was chosen afterwards to replace Judas by Jesus appearing to him after his resurrection and appointing him as he did the other eleven apostles after he rose



This is how Matthias was chosen before they received the holy ghost .

“And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not the same as this

“until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

….But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:2, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this concerning Paul

“But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: for I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Amy point to you had always been these twelve men Jesus chose hinself and appointed as his witnesses to the end of the earth . The ones Jesus sent , his messengers .
“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these men are different from anyone else and do you think it’s coincidental that Jesus himself chose twelve men ( again removing Judas because )

“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:70‬ ‭

“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Judas and the other apostles were chosen purposefully by Jesus Judas pre ordained role , was to betray him and set in motion the events of the cross.

To replace him jesus didn’t command anyone to cast lots , he appeared himself to Paul the apostle and called and appointed him to be an apostle or “ sent messenger “ just as he had the other eleven after his crucifixion when he appeared to them and gave them the same commission to preach the gospel to all people regardless of nationality , just as Jesus himself appeared himself and chose in the same way just at a later time the twelth apostle , Paul formerly Saul of tarsus .

ado you not find it coincidental tbat there are twelve names of the apostles of Jesus in heaven and there are twelve men who were chosen and called and sent to be his apostles by him personally ?

again im not disputing that people call themselves or even other people apostles I k ow people who claim apostleship today . Tbat doesn’t make them equal or the same as the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ that’s my point

“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now remove Judas because he was foretold to be his betrayer and add Paul the only other man Jesus actually appeared to and appointed as apostle in the same manner he did the other eleven men he chose and appointed as his witnesses

it actually sort of confuses some because there are parts of what Jesus was saying that’s specific to his chosen apostles like judging the tribes of Israel ( all of his apostles were of the tribes of the children of Israel including Paul who was from the tribe of Benjamin ) which qualifies them to be the twelve judges of the twelve tribes also is part of the twelve apostles appointment by Jesus himself , that sets them apart from anyone else those twelve names of his apostles are foundational ( thier witness makes up scripture which should be any Christian’s foundation ) thier names are foundational they aren’t the same as anyone else using the title apostle

that’s just my own opinion ion though brother n

 

[Blade]

I believe Prophets and Apostles and gifts by the sweet sweet holy Spirit are .. well I would have to lie to say I don't seem Him at work doing this to this day. Prophets.. or any office He calls us to has to have gifts that come with that office working. If someone was called to be a prophet they would neve have to tell anyone .. we would just know. If I didn't think these gifts or offices were at work today .. doesn't stop Him .. just stops Him from working those gifts in my life for His glory as He wills.

Oh I have to.. I like this song "one of these days gonna see the one that took the nails for me". Yes!

Authority/power.. Christ gave us already. All power all authority over the enemy. That enemy there is not man is not some believer the 12 new this. Peter and John.. why look at us as if we did this by our own power? Yeah they were Apostles yet that power did not come from them they said "that name.. faith in that name healed this man". That name was given to us to use for His glory. He told them what ever you ask me I will do.

We talk about this stuff but look how.. sorry forgive me.. look how we treat them. We so much different then when Christ said.. GOD talking.. I will send them.. this person that person.. they killed them.. I will now send my son... killed Him. Were different huh..we know who is who is not of GOD. We know what gifts are alive working today well duh some preacher/believer told us. Sorry.. ..

"Giving my life to the only Son who was and is and is yet to come". hear I am lord .. use me

 

[homwardbound]

1 Corinthians 13
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The supernatural gifts of the spirit was for witness that the Apostles were speaking the words of God, and was used until the finish work of recording the words of the new testament was completed . 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Once it was all given the gifts of witness was not needed any longer for now we live by faith in what was recorded there is no new revelation being given.

What is needed to be known is now known, Christ is risen, we are forgiven and the new life in the risen Jesus is offered to us all to believe Father or not consciously. and then do love and mercy to all too, that is what I got out of your post
Is that what you are saying?

 

[Biilybob65]

What is needed to be known is now known, Christ is risen, we are forgiven and the new life in the risen Jesus is offered to us all to believe Father or not consciously. and then do love and mercy to all too, that is what I got out of your post
Is that what you are saying?

sorry don't understand your question. What does " to believe Father or not consciously. and then do love and mercy to all too, " mean?

 

[Biilybob65]

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Mark 16:17 -20
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

What are these scriptures saying?
The signs are for confirming the word.
Has the word been confirmed?
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
If all scripture is given do we still need the confirming signs?
Do we live by faith in the recorded word?

 

[Aaron56]

ado you not find it coincidental tbat there are twelve names of the apostles of Jesus in heaven and there are twelve men who were chosen and called and sent to be his apostles by him personally ?

That’s not true. Consider the calling and commissioning a Barnabas:

Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away."

The Holy Spirit said... Where was this written? Of course it wasn't written. The teachers and prophets heard this directly from the Spirit.

And then the Holy Spirit, by inspiring the scripture, clearly calls Barnabas an apostle:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

The Spirit does only what He sees the Lord do. If the Spirit chose Barnabas the Lord chose Barnabas.

This is the authority of the Holy Spirit: He only speaks what He hears from the Lord:

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. "

 

[4urenlightment]

I believe scripture indicates a choice as to whether or not to speak on behalf of God. Considering the useage of the word possession as relates to the demonic, I would hesitate to compare that function with a 'prophet' I don't know exactly how you are applying the word here, but it makes me raise an eyebrow.

Further, the problem with understanding a prophet's function in the NT, is that the Bible says the prophets should speak 2 or 3 and not just 1. Prophets (or those who think they are) seem to function in a kind of lone ranger way and often act like they need to be 'obeyed'.

There is a difference between the old and new testaments with regards to prophets.

Maybe you might explain just how you are thinking when using the word possession? I would find it helpful. Thanks

Elizabeth didn't give consent for the spirit to take over her body. Because It was forbidden for a woman in those days to prophesied, that they are supposed to remain silent. But God made Elizabeth's husband to remain silent during that time while Elizabeth prophesied about Mary's unborn child that she knew that Mary was pregnant with Jesus before Mary could tell her.

 

[pinebeach]

Elizabeth didn't give consent for the spirit to take over her body. Because It was forbidden for a woman in those days to prophesied, that they are supposed to remain silent. But God made Elizabeth's husband to remain silent during that time while Elizabeth prophesied about Mary's unborn child that she knew that Mary was pregnant with Jesus before Mary could tell her.

OK so if I understand you, when you say possession, you mean possession as in no control over yourself? Did I get that right?

Where do you get it was forbidden for women to prophesy? At any rate, how do you apply that to the gift of NT prophecy?

I'm not watching those videos.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That’s not true. "

“ not true. Consider the calling and commissioning a Barnabas:”

yeah that makes my point . Barnabus wasn’t chosen and called by Jesus himself like the Twelve apostles that he chose in the same way .


factually brother I’ve shown the scriptures the eleven men Jesus chose and Paul were chosen in a way no one else was . Only twelve and every one is an apostle of Jesus Christ. You can’t say that’s not factual or maybe you have an example where anyone other than the twelve apostles including Paul and minus Judas was personally chosen and called and empowered to be an apostle by Jesus himself .


barnabus didn’t have the same experience nor Matthias as the eleven and Paul did only they had that experience. It’s a factual statement unless I’ve missed someone having the same experience as those twelve men recognized as the apostles of the lamb ( Jesus Christ )

“Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s for the apostles it sets them apart from everyone else we aren’t going to be sitting on thrones judging Israel’s tribes tbey will be

“Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:16-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:2-4, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No one we’ll ever meet even in heaven will have that same experience and calling and annointing besides Paul formerly Saul of tarsus it’s not true of Matthias he wasn’t with the eleven Jesus had chosen he was chosen later by casting lots . Jesus didn’t choose the other eleven apostles that way but …… he chose Paul just as the other eleven in person by his own words having an encounter with Jesus himself.


“Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:28-30‬ ‭

Ever wonder why it says Paul had to suffer so much for Christ ? Because it was part of being an apostle to share in Christs sufferings and temptations tbey are foundational testimonies to everything we now learn and believe from scripture.

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or this look at Peter here before his death as it nears

“Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬



No one else will ever have thier testimonies and appointments there’s not going to be any more eye witness accounts of Jesus and the gospel when he was living on earth before he sent out the gospel to the world through those chosen men who still reach people today .
“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-12, 14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you look a few chapters back it’s Jesus and his 12 disciples when this occurs he’s praying for them but look what he says here regarding the rest of us

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


men he chose to witness and bring the message to everyone else his twelve messengers are seperate they were chosen by him , why he spent three years or so teaching and training them teaching them things he wasnt teaching every one else. Secrets when they were alone . He promised to reveal more to them later that they weren’t ready for when he was with them

Jesus ministry was continued through the apostles

“These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. ( that’s where all thier understsnding came from including Paul’s ) He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:1-4, 12-16‬ ‭

Do you see how specific these conversations are